| 3:41 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Goodbye Google, hello Inktomi!
| 3:51 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
"Goodbye Google, hello Inktomi!"
Well, I am not pulling my Google Adwords just yet....
| 4:53 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Someone at Yahoo was quoted as saying that they were "committed to their directory". It would interesting to see a mix of Inktomi and the directory in one list of results.
| 4:59 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Very blue sky predictions but
1. I think it will be a mix in any variety of ways for the initial period, with overture predominating paid ads..
2. They will move to using Ink as their technology and spider over time, and the present actual database will change very quick. eg: i dont think that an existing position in ink is worth much medium to long term
3. They will use ink for many things - spidering/paid listings/free spiders/PFI/ etc It wll become a major part of their spidering indexing accross many areas..
| 5:44 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think they will integrate Ink results w/ Google, then wean Google out completely.
Then I predict Yahoo will really push (PFI and index connect), now that Ink results are the "primary" results at a major portal...
Even though they are giving Overture more "real estate" now, they "dump" Overture completely, and go with their own CPC based bidding environment.
The directory get's more prominence again, but never the Top Billing it once had....
Yahoo pushes "Paid Directory" listings as a way to get link pop. in Inktomi... :)
It's all about the Benjamins....
| 9:34 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Google continues as the core search result. Ink/directory as pfi/froogle type search, eventually replace Overture with 100% Yahoo program.
Zero chance of Yahoo dumping Google anytime soon. The model is clear: use Google to be better than Google.
| 9:19 pm on Feb 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Ink has a "gold" lining that Yahoo is going to tap. The lining is 10,000,000 paid listing and consider this was achieved while Ink was only providing backfill for MSN and a few other portals.
Ink results are going to displace Google and the number of paid listings is going to aleast triple. At $39.00 for one url and $25.00 for 2-1000 urls. You do the math. I think 1 billion = 1000 million.
The search results just have to be good, they don't have to be better than anyone else(WG).
<--Side note;Google goes public and introduces paid listings--->
| 9:40 pm on Feb 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
What redzone said in msg #6.
As a side note: giving sites listed in the directory a boost of Y!Rank (Y!R) in Ink: it will be much more attractive if they continue to syndicate Ink results to other portals and engines. The more outlets using Ink the more people will belly up and pay, not only for PFI, but also for that Y! directory listing.
| 10:23 pm on Feb 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
"...10,000,000 paid listing"
I have my doubts about that figure. Where did it come from?
| 10:39 pm on Feb 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Looking for the article. tick, tick tick,
Found it, [searchenginewatch.com...] .
"Inktomi has 10 million paid URLs in its database, half of which produce recurring cost-per-click income."
| 11:57 pm on Feb 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think the majority of what are being termed "Paid URL's", are actually coming from the Index Connect Program, which is paid, but only when someone clicks... :)
| 12:06 am on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think we should ask Danny Sullivan, he is a member of WebmasterWorld.
| 12:17 am on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|...they "dump" Overture completely, and go with their own CPC based bidding environment. - Redzone |
...and then compete with Overture in third markets.
| 7:00 am on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
First I think Yahoo's strategy was brilliant bring in google to turnaround and get inktomi for 1 penny on the dollar, they bought them for 1% for the 2000 market value.
Second it makes perfect sense because they are taking an expense (paying google for results) and turning it into another revenue stream (with the paid inclusions on inktomi)
Third I think the googler's WAY overplay the importance of search quality, sure if I'm looking for something detailed I will take the time to go to google, no doubt there results are better ... BUT
Most of the internet users have no clue about search quality, the majority of the people on AOL click around AOL thinking they are on the internet. 17 million people last month did a search for Yahoo or Yahoo.com and another 12 million did a search for Google or Google.com
If you had 1/2 of a clue why would you do a search for Yahoo or Google instead of just going there? People to Yahoo for the email, the chat, the games and everything else ...
I'm interested to see how it all plays out, but as a webmaster, I'm totally in favor of paying a fee and being able to save the untold hours of time google requires to play their game.
| 7:52 am on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>as a webmaster, I'm totally in favor of paying a fee and being able to save the untold hours of time google requires to play their game<<
Ah ha! that's what google wants you to think! - though they would prefer you to spend your money on Adwords though... They are quite happy to compete directly with Y!/Ink for your listing/PPC dollar.
I agree that on a cost-effectiveness basis PPC and advertising is becoming increasingly appealing, though i expect costs to advertiser will creep up fast. Basically Google does not in any way want you to do SEO, they prefer to be left alone to decide what are the best/most relevant pages by themselves. Makes for less spam and a better index which is how they get the eyeballs that may click on the top and the right.
They dont ask you to play their game (after all its YOU playing your own game, not google's) - just hope you give up and get used to paying directly. After all, that money goes into Search engine pockets, not SEO's pockets..
I agree with your view that many users do not care about search quality to some extent, but certainly its not as big a proportion as it was when Y! had its golden age, and its declining as the average experience of internet users reduces as internet use becomes mainstream, users get smarter, and new user uptake slows as it approaches the ceiling level in many markets.
| 8:27 am on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
chiyo ... definitely some valid points
I haven't read much on these boards about Overture raising their minimum bid amount to $0.10 AND raising all grandfathered <.05 bids to .05 at the end of march ...
I think this will be a nice boost for the google ad words business, though I never saw the return from google adwords that I did from overture.
any idea how much yahoo pays google for the results?
but don't kid yourself it's not me playing my game, its everyone on this board playing googles game, making up ridiculous "content" and trading emails to exchange links,
when you get right down to it ... is a user better off hitting a simple doorway page that sends them to a merchant through an affiliate link or reading through a bunch of paragraphs and linked pages to end up at the same merchant through a different affiliate link ;-)
don't get me wrong I love the game, and love these boards as well
| 11:44 am on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
What if Yahoo! added something else to the mix? What if there was another purchase this year? If you were Yahoo!, who would you want to buy?
| 11:55 am on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
| 1:24 pm on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
"you were Yahoo!, who would you want to buy? "
Give it a few more weeks, and the stock will be low enough :D
| 6:58 pm on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Good question Mike.
Knowing that Yahoo likes to own services it provides, I would have to say Overture. Now the question is, can they afford it or, are they just going to build there own? <--Overture profits are up, no fire sale here, I would build my own--->
WindSun, AOL at a fire sale price would be very hard for Yahoo to turn down. I would say they would be the prime target.
What else? Maybe ebay or amazon, if the price is right.
| 4:32 am on Feb 11, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>>>I'm interested to see how it all plays out, but as a webmaster, I'm totally in favor of paying a fee and being able to save the untold hours of time google requires to play their game.>>>>>
I gave up on this game long time ago. I pay the fee and happy with the results (including on Goolge)
I think if you make a living from the internet and search engine marketing is a big part of it. You can't effort to play the Google game. Too expensive and you don't have to worry about the update every month. Results are almost always the same.
But then again if you are doing it as part time or for extra cash then you can pay the 'Google game' or if you are SEO then you have no choice.
| 2:47 am on Feb 13, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Yahoo has also renewed its focus on its search products, which it relaunched in October. Jeff Weiner, the senior vice president who oversees Yahoo's search business, told analysts the company expected to generate $200 million in revenue from sponsored searches in 2003.
Weiner reiterated Yahoo's commitment to its search partner, Overture, but also said the company wants its search product to be as self-reliant as possible.
"Given the importance of search to Yahoo we don't want to be dependent on any one third party," Weiner said. "We want to control our own destiny."
Bye bye Overture.
| 3:09 am on Feb 13, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Search submit will be bundled with Yahoo! Express submit, to entice folks to keep paying that $299. Maybe even a price rise for the extra coverage...
| 3:09 am on Feb 13, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Well, I think If you Yahoo! didn't give their directory listings the highest priority, then it's a matter of time and they will lose big time!
| 3:15 am on Feb 13, 2003 (gmt 0)|
directory listings will be gone. They want the CPC money. Intersting about Overture could be gone. I think it will be better. Overture CPC price will go donw then you have the Yahoo option for CPC...nothing worong with that. Even my CPM on Google can go donw...i am all for it.
| 5:09 am on Feb 13, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Re. a Yahoo PPC, all those "idle" Yahoo Express editors could be put to good use editing PPC submissions. That part of the project is already in place. Yahoo only lacks the technical side and that shouldn't be too hard.
For me, I would love a new PPC in Yahoo. I'd get several months of cheap clicks before the muggles jumped on board and outbid me into oblivion.
| 10:25 am on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I was quite surprised by replacing the directory results by Google ("why would Yahoo pay for the results to Google if they have their own relevant results paid to Yahoo via Y!Express?") ... then Yahoo got Inktomi and I was sure they would get back to directory + Inktomi results (or to mix of these results), otherwise Yahoo simply lose their Y!Express clients - who would pay $299 for one year listing in a "seen-by-nobody" directory? now it is the time of first renewals, and I expected Yahoo making a clear statement regarding its future results - to make its Y!Express clients pay for another year ... well, I was wrong :(
but I still think that (from the greedy Yahoo's point of view) showing directory as primary results is the most effective way; as they are no more the "good guys" directory, they might even afford to prefer annual paid listings to "grandfathered" and free listings;
so I would expect the following structure of results:
1. Yahoo proprietary PPC (3-5 results on every page)
2. paid Yahoo directory + paid Inktomi results
3. free Yahoo + free Inktomi results