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Yahoo Purchases Inktomi
Jester




msg:839504
 2:32 pm on Dec 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Looks like Yahoo did some christmas shopping
marketwatch [cbs.marketwatch.com]

 

mat_bastian




msg:839654
 10:42 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Very well said and I think your post goes right to the heart of the issue. I agree and particularily enjoyed "I can guarantee Yahoo will expend more energy on perfecting their monetization process than on their search quality."

hehe... how true.

Brad




msg:839655
 1:22 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>The average Yahoo user is way less discerning than the techno savvy elite which populate our beloved community here.

Bingo. You are right on target. In the content and entertainment areas which make up the vast majority of Yahoo searches Ink results are looking pretty decent since Ink rolled out the new algo. I think this could work for Yahoo if implemented correctly. I think a lot of people will be quite happy with it.

nell




msg:839656
 1:40 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Could it be that Yahoo renewed with Google for the sole purpose of diminishing Inktomi stock so it would be cheaper to buy?

Did both Yahoo and Ink agree that a buyout was ultimately a better deal for Ink than just letting them have the Yahoo contract?

Did they both play Google and Ink stockholders for suckers?

Ever since Google got the Yahoo deal, Ink has been "dressing up" for the wedding. Their announcement to focus on search, their better algo - like they knew how to groom themselves for the end of year marriage.

Yahoo's 15% investment in Google is still worth the 15%. From a competitive standpoint, it allows Yahoo to keep a tab on Google's inside workings. If ever that 15% becomes worth 5%, Yahoo more than made up for it with the cheap price they paid for Ink stock.

I'll bet the inner circle Ink employee/stockholders got a sweet deal for going along with the flow. I'll bet their diminished stock price holdings were well compensated for.

[edited by: nell at 2:10 pm (utc) on Dec. 24, 2002]

Tor




msg:839657
 2:06 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Could it be that Yahoo renewed with Google for the sole purpose of diminishing Inktomi stock so it would be cheaper to buy?

It certainly looks that way. It might have been part of the Yahoo! strategy from the start.

rafalk




msg:839658
 2:29 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'll bet the inner circle Ink employee/stockholders got a sweet deal for going along with the flow. I'll bet their diminished stock price holdings were well compensated for.

That would be incredibly illegal. If it ever were that stupid, Y! would be fending off shareholder lawsuits till kingdom come.

Go60Guy




msg:839659
 4:07 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

The spin offered by one analyist on the media here in the S.F. Bay Area is that Y means to dump Google which has become too much like a competitor.

nell




msg:839660
 4:47 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

>If it ever were that stupid

Only making it obvious would be stupid.
How about a nice fat BONUS and PAY RAISE for "important Inktomi employees" staying on board to facilitate a smooth transition? How does one benchmark the amount of bonus and payraise to argue a claim that's it's too much to give them?

EquityMind




msg:839661
 6:12 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

From the OC Register (Danny Sullivan's old stomping ground) business section this morning (same time zone as Yahoo and Ink)

'The Company will also continue a partnership with Overture Services, Yahoo Chief Operating Officer Daniel Rosensweig said. Overture provides the search listings where companies pay for prominant placement. Yahoo's search page lists those results seperately from others, inder a heading labeled "sponsor matches."

Yahoo will also continue a partnership with Google, which provides Yahoo's search results that businesses don't pay to be included in, Rosensweig said.'

Sounds like Y may integrate Ink into the current mix.

EquityMind




msg:839662
 6:25 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Also from the same article:

'Inktomi, based in Foster City, offers a service where businesses pay to have Web sites placed in search results. Decker said Yahoo will continue offering that service after integrating Inktomi's service into Yahoo's search page.'

This raises several questions:

Will we now be able to pay to get multiple pages into the Yahoo Directory?

Will this be a way to get Yahoo backlinks for internal pages for ranking in the Google serps?

Will the Yahoo express submit feature go away in favor of the Inktomi search submit?

europeforvisitors




msg:839663
 7:07 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Also from the same article:
'Inktomi, based in Foster City, offers a service where businesses pay to have Web sites placed in search results. Decker said Yahoo will continue offering that service after integrating Inktomi's service into Yahoo's search page.'

This makes a lot of sense. All Yahoo has to do is list Inktomi results ahead of Google results, and commercial sites will have an incentive to pay for inclusion in the Inktomi database.

Yahoo could even *require* that sites pay for URLs which they want to have crawled by Inktomi, or--more likely--Yahoo could include only PFI pages in the Inktomi search results that it displays ahead of the Google results.

In summary, a search on "widgets" might get you:

1) "Sponsor Matches" (which generate revenue from Overture).

2) Yahoo directory matches (which generate revenue via submission fees).

3) Inktomi PFI matches (which generate revenue via PFI fees).

4) Google matches (the "real" search results for noncommercial searches and for determined searchers who keep going past 1, 2, and 3).

davaddavad




msg:839664
 7:18 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

When they say we will continue using... to me that says until we stop using...google----then even overture. Their popularity is making other people in the search properties industry rich. Why not get a bigger piece of the pie for supplying all those customers. ppc has overcome most other forms of internet advertising in terms or roi. So if yahoo could get rid of google and remain relevant and then manage a payforplacement and add a ppc would they make their 235mil back?:D

kevinpate




msg:839665
 7:34 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

If Yahooootomi does decide to remove/reduce/whatever Google on down the line, when upgrades happen, instead of waiting for the Dance, will folks then be nibbling their nails each month while anxiously awaiting the start of the Yodel!?

Happy Holidays to Ya'll and all Ya'lls friends and kin as well.

rubble88




msg:839666
 9:48 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Paul Festa at News.Com with a lengthy analysis of the Yahoo purchase.

It's titled:
"Don't Bite the Hand that Feeds You"
Full-Text here. [news.com.com]

From the article:

But the question is whether it's too late already for Yahoo to begin competing in the search space, because in many ways a Google search is more effective for individual searches than going to a directory."
--Michael Gartenberg, Jupiter Research

Hey Mike, other good search technology for individual searches is out there. Have you seen FAST lately? Also, we all know that Yahoo has had both Inktomi and Google as fall-through search results for many, many years.

A primary question is whether Yahoo will be essentially shooting itself in the foot if it abandons Google's search technology, which the market in short order rewarded with the status of virtual standard-bearer.

The market rewarded it becuase it's very very good but other good stuff deserves attention. Much, not all, but a great deal of credit needs to go to Google's superb marketing staff for making Google the standard bearer. People want relevant answers, most could care less where they come from.

"Google faces its inevitable ouster," wrote Forrester Research analyst Charlene Li in a research note published Monday. "With 23 percent of households visiting Google at least once a week, Yahoo must eventually switch its search over to Inktomi to ensure that Google doesn't gain too much power..."With Inktomi, Yahoo makes search a strategic asset," Li wrote. Microsoft portal MSN and AOL Time Warner's America Online service "will consider purchases of their own, potentially going after FAST or AskJeeves/Teoma to strengthen their search."

pleeker




msg:839667
 11:48 pm on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

No-one has yet shown me where INK results are less relevant than Googles'.

1. Go to Google and do a search for 'google'.

2. Go to MSN Search and do a search for 'google'.

The No. 2 result on MSN seems to be pretty irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. :)

If Yahoo plans to make Ink a major part of its SERPS, it will have lots of cleanup to do ... above and beyond my semi-humorous example above.

Much, not all, but a great deal of credit needs to go to Google's superb marketing staff for making Google the standard bearer.

Huh? The credit for Google becoming the standard bearer goes to the engineers who continued to develop the search engine into what it is today -- the most accurate and relevant search results producer on the web.

I have never in my life seen ANYTHING produced by Google's marketing staff. I've no doubt they're as superb as you say, but it seems to be pretty common knowledge that word-of-mouth from satisfied users is what has powered Google's popularity. I see Yahoo commercials on my TV, and hear them on radio, all the time. Never heard or saw anything from Google's marketing people. But all the people I know who use Google, which is just about everyone I know, gladly say they heard about Google from a friend ... not from some marketing campaign.

Anyway, I just don't see Google being killed off, or even dramatically hurt, if Y dumps them altogether in favor of pure Inktomi results. Sure, there will be some impact -- to say so otherwise would be silly. But too many people know and love Google. It's become synonymous with search. We don't search for someone/something anymore, we "google" it/them. I think your business is pretty well established when your name becomes a verb. :)

EquityMind




msg:839668
 12:21 am on Dec 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Pleeker - Those results on MSN are NOT from Inktomi, they are from Microsoft. The same goes for when you search for 'cars', 'shopping' or 'travel'...Microsoft owned properties come up first as a 'featured site'...so typical of the evil empire. LookSmart results come up under 'directory matches' and Inktomi results are finally served up as 'web pages'.

Google would never do that and I quote a Google exec "We will never alter results, we take a blood oath on that issue' this is why Google results are so much more relevant and end users tend to trust Google versus the other search properties out there.

caine




msg:839669
 12:25 am on Dec 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

"We will never alter results, we take a blood oath on that issue"

interesting quote, I think alot of blood will be spilt in the year too come.

Please keep the forum on track to Yahoo, i think will be drawing the blood like a little blood sucking vampire

littleman




msg:839670
 2:20 am on Dec 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

More speculation,
Y! will keep the Googlehoo db, but make it bring up the rear. First it will be Overture, then it will be PPC contracts via Inktomi's XML feed, then the Googlehoo db. The Overture and XML feed results may reverse depending on which pays more.

My thinking is that the all the free results in Inktomi are toast -- they'll boil what is left of Inktomi into a pure money extraction machine and let Google do what it does best.

As for MSN, long term it will be pure looksmart/wisenut, short term, maybe Fast.

Tor




msg:839671
 10:17 am on Dec 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

As for MSN, long term it will be pure looksmart/wisenut, short term, maybe Fast

MSN : Long term, FAST (PFI)

French_cnx




msg:839672
 11:50 am on Dec 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

& More speculations
Monday, Yahoo switched to a new layout in France, with no references to Google, that is 200% more referrers from Y! for my site.

Today, we can compare Google SERPS to Y!'s, it is the same(who cares where the results come from?)
What is the competitive advantage of Google over Y!?
When will Y! stop using Google? Local/Global?
Google will move to a combination of Fast+Overture?

Visit Thailand




msg:839673
 1:10 pm on Dec 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Forgive me as I jump in on Xmas day not enotely sober. However let me say this.

Optimisimg for google and Yaho and INK is ultimately the same in that there really should not be any optimisation.

What I mean is that you should be optimising for the comsumer, the user, optimise for them and you will succeed.

As the Yahoo, Ink deal just came through any ideas are only speculation, and it is impossible to see what will happen, the only interesting thing I see is that Google is becoming more of its simple self and Yahoo wants to massage its routes.

jambad




msg:839674
 4:54 pm on Dec 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

My 2 cents...

Because Y! has already renewed with Google, I think they will leave their "The Web" results alone. But with Ink they could blend in their directory with Ink giving a reason to pay for inclusion once again, since there is currently no reason.

gsmitchell




msg:839675
 4:11 pm on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

All the speculation here is just that. None of us really know what Y! is going to do with INK. IMHO I can't imagine Y! spending money on INK and not somehow incorporating it into it's reslults. They are a public company and need to show stockholders they are making an effort to make money! All we can do is sit back and wait and see what the next few months brings. As I have stated in an earlier post, I am going to start making an effort to optimize for INK in hopes that these resluts become more relevant

Brett_Tabke




msg:839676
 4:45 pm on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Because Y! has already renewed with Google,

As far as we know, that was non-exclusive without minimums.

Tapolyai




msg:839677
 9:28 pm on Jan 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Here is Gartner's take on Yahoo/Inktomi/Google

[www3.gartner.com...]

I don't particularly care for Gartner research (I think "they" lack the depth truly required), but at least we can tell what senior execs will think about this deal. You know... the newspaper article on the last flight syndrome.

rcjordan




msg:839678
 1:51 pm on Jan 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yahoo, Inktomi File Antitrust Papers For Merger [biz.yahoo.com]

Tapolyai




msg:839679
 4:07 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Here is a recent (well today) article from Business Week titled "Google's Gaggle of Problems".

The article suggest that Google has made a lot of enemies recently in the big boys club, and now they have to fend them off. It's a bit of a doom and gloom, but gives some interesting point of view.

[businessweek.com...]

Hollywood




msg:839680
 5:08 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Search engine news about all that may be happening.

[finance.yahoo.com...]

Mtlinfo




msg:839681
 9:37 am on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

I read all the last 12 or so page on that Yahoo/Inktomi deal but i had not seen yet anyone mentionned my idea (maybe too twisted i guess) why Yahoo! may have bought Inktomi.

Don't laught of me ok ;-) So here it goes.

Yahoo! has to answer to shareholders right...so those bloodsucker just want more & more money in their pockets so let's see how Yahoo can make more money here...

They already have PFI revenues from their directory (299$ per URL). They also have PPC with Overture and they've got the best SERPs coming from Google but...Yahoo! does not have PFI revenues from their "Search Engine" serps because they work with Google and Google does not have a PFI program.

But "Oh What a coincidence" Inktomi has just that ;-)

Ok many here will say that Google has better serps than Ink so why drop Google's good serps at the bottom of the page to place the Ink serps you may ask?

Well if i was Yahoo!, i would NOT place ALL the Ink serps above Google ones but rather JUST THE PFI ONES, kinda like the PPC sponsored sites listed above the free serps.
The more i think of it the more it looks like a good deal if Yahoo! would do that...since this way they would have:

1- PPC revenues from Overture
2- PFI revenues from their directory
3- PFI revenues from Inktomi's search engine
4- Maintain the best serps on the web (Google) near the top of their search section.
5- Get revenue by leasing Ink's database to other partners like MSN.

Maybe far fetched but what do you think of that idea? Not bad hey ;-)

Mtlinfo

2_much




msg:839682
 4:52 pm on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey Mtlinfo, I like your thoughts. I would just modify a little:

1- PPC revenues from their own program developed through Ink technology
2- PFI revenues from their directory
3- PFI revenues from Inktomi's search engine
4- Maintain the best serps on the web (Google) near the top of their search section.
5- Get revenue by leasing Ink's database to other partners like MSN.
6. Get revenue through their trusted feed.

That's what I think - let's see what happens. I found this interesting:

``We just finished Act One. There is more to come.''

[nytimes.com...]

Scary thought.

jadakiss2




msg:839683
 12:23 am on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yeah - scary - I wish I was much better off. :( Money hungry mongles.

Mtlinfo




msg:839684
 1:15 am on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yeah well you know what guys, i wouldn't mind that much if Yahoo! would do just that because i have a few PFI pages listed at Inktomi so to be listed just under the PPC but over the free Google listing on Yahoo serps would be very nice for me.

The ones listed at the top of Google would still be on the 1st page but because the PFI from Ink would be listed just over it then it would be lucrative for Yahoo and VEEEEERY good for PFI pages like mine here and since Google would still be the main supplier of free listings i think it would be a Win/Win/Win/Win situation (Yahoo/Google/paid programs/surfers).

I still don't understand why Google don't have a PFI program though. I mean what negative part of a PFI program is SOOOOO important to reject having thousands of WMs like us paying them for a PFI listing here? They are literally losing millions and millions because of that..can anyone explain that to me!

Sure Google doesn't have to answer to money hungry shareholders because it is not public but hey...who would be stupid enough to say no to all these PFI millions here!

Mtlinfo

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