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This 182 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 182 ( 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 > >     
Yahoo Purchases Inktomi

 2:32 pm on Dec 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Looks like Yahoo did some christmas shopping
marketwatch [cbs.marketwatch.com]



 12:05 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

On pure ink results, does anyone know the command to see all your urls that are included?




 12:21 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Including Inktomi results will serve 2 purposes in my mind:

1.) Provide more diversified results than simply pure Google
2.) Filter out (at least partially) Google spammers from Yahoo results.

The end result will be higher relevancy and more income from the droves of webmasters who feel that $30 is actually a reasonable amount of money to shell out in order to get spidered fairly regularly.

If we now have an affordable open door for small businesses to get into Yahoo which offers more than just Google results, we will find many more people returning to the portal.

A smart move by Yahoo in my opinion.


 12:22 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

What else is new?


 12:26 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Mmmm... nice :) Despite just having got Google stuff sorted, the competition has got to be healthy.

Merry Christmas!


 12:39 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Maybe it's just me.

I seem to recall that Yahoo just wrote a whole pile of black ink on their books and have plenty of cash.

When they gave Inktomi away in 1999 Inktomi shares were some $115 and now, even with the premium per share they will pay around $1.65.

They can use Inktomi as a bit of leverage with Google. Although Google may be the dominant force in the market for search, they are not a public company so don't have to answer to shareholders. Yahoo on the other hand have to turn a profit, which they just have.

They slipped the decision to introduce the annual fee for submissions in on 28th December last year and probably took as many submissions in the run up to make it all worth while. Now they have a search engine, it might encourage some of those wavering with "shall I renew for $299 or not?" to just get the credit card out one more time.

At $235 million Yahoo will probably get half of that in speculative PFI's for those that sense the cost of PFI for Inktomi might take on a 6 monthly flavour ala Alta Vista.

I'm sure there was some other motives, but the deal made good commercial sense. Inktomi were struggling, Yahoo had cash, Inktomi were cheap and have ongoing commercial benefit. The search landscape is heading more towards paid inclusions, PPC, paid directory listings.

I'd say with Overture offering significant revenues from PPC and a long term contract, Inktomi offering a respectable backfill to replace or compliment Google results, a smattering of directory results from their directory and a still significant and health market share that Yahoo is not in bad shape.

I don't really see it turning into an ugly blood bath, Yahoo own too much of Google for that to be feasible.

Wisenut was too good value at $9 million for Looksmart, and I think Inktomi at $235 million looked good value too, especially as they have a new search facility Version 9 out or ready to be out.


 12:42 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think this deal effectively forces google inot the fourth portal option it has been positioning for.

Which in itself raises more questions then answers.

Would AOL keep Google if Google become the 4th Portal?

Will Yahoo go a complete PPC model with the INKT acquisition?

MSN are yet to respond and it looks ever so much more likely LOOK/Wisenut will be involved.

INKT will immediately lose MSN and LOOK.

Who will Google see take their place at AOl?

Many will not be able to get their minds around this.........but this deal today could finish Google as well.

Would be very hard if not impossible for Google to take an IPO to the market to raise the funds needed to take on AOL,MSN and Yahoo if it has NO partners and or large distribution which it enjoys now.

With what appears to be major portals like Yahoo taking search in house it really has put enormous pressure on Google.

We now await to see the MSN,AOL response.

I believe MSN has been readying itself for some time with a response and we might see it sooner then many think.

Talk about interesting times.

This has really made Portals pre eminent..........are they all going PPC?

I would think there goes the Yahoo annual fee.PPC to be introduced as soon as INKT is integrated.


 12:47 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I hope your wrong jillbert, the world, the millions and billions of websites do not have the deep pockets to pay for some bored surfer to go clicking around..that defeats what the webs about.. it should be interesting though.



 12:58 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

What your missing in the gloom for google scenario is that google will gain a lot of traffic as soon as INK takes over. I still use yahoo search sometimes because google powers it. Take google away, I'm gone...if Google adds my.google.features, that will make them even bigger....

"GilbertZ@google.com" ;)

<adding "soon to be @google.com" in case people are confused about the email address>


 1:13 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I guess most of this depends on what Yahoo does with INK. But if INK remains the same with the same PFI model we can expect the same junk served up that's on MSN.

From a purely SEO stand point it will be great because INK is so easy to work - but I for one would rather have my job be a little harder and the quality of the search be so much better.

There is always the possibility they are not buying INK for the web search products. This could be where Ink becomes the ghost of Internet Search past...



 1:13 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

How do I add DMOZ results on my website? Has anyone tried this already, of so, please explain?


 1:15 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Can anyone email me or respond with their advice on the best way to get search results on a site without linking away to a site with those lame "search" boxes some use.


 1:18 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

<<From a purely SEO stand point it will be great because INK is so easy to work>>

Really? I find it to produce inconsistent results. The SEO needs to overcome the defects in its algo to get great positioning. Google, by comparison, is straightforward and honest with very few weird quirks and database sorting problems.


 1:26 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Overture + Google has been magic for Yahoo. They made a great move, despite many people not getting it. It would be suicide to even think Ink + the Directory could compete for users. Yahoo has been making good moves, self-immolation wouldn't fit. Look for the Directory and Ink to be linked in a Froogle/e-commerce way.

If not, the clear big winner here is DMOZ. Google + DMOZ would squash like an irrelevant bug Ink + Yahoo Directory. They aren't within galaxies of each other in terms of search quality, relevancy and user-satisfaction.

But again, that can't be Yahoo's move. Killing a tremddouly profitable, good quality, public-pleasing revenue stream makes no sense at all. Manufacturing a second, commercialized stream makes a lot of sense.


 1:33 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Why doesn't google just start offering 4-6mb free email accounts? This is a huge reason why some people use Yahoo in the first place. Huh - good idea?


 1:37 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi all,

Anyone that thinks Yahoo paid $235 mill for Inkt just to trash them has got to have rocks in their head.

Although Yahoo own 10% equity in Google, Google have been more of a danger of recent times to Yahoo as they are leaning more and more towards being a Portal since their latest Froogle inclusion. Google may opt for going public very soon.

Where does this leave the MSN/Inkt contract? I thought it had already expired. MSN have a very cosy relationship with Looksmart since further extending their original contract. Yahoo paid $235 mill for Inkt which is currently debt ridden, yet Looksmart paid $9 mill for Wisenut and is completely debt free with a further $50 mill in the Bank.

One thing is for certain, MSN will respond and I would imagine in a big way. I doubt very much MSN would have anything to do with Google, unless of course they bought them out. Why would MSN want Google in any relationship when Yahoo owns 10%?


 1:41 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Superb! Well done Ink, and smart move Yahoo.


 1:47 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Does this mean we'll need an InkGuy to start joining in on this forum?


 1:58 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

We have to keep in mind that Y! is not announcing that they are using Ink results. What they did was to buy the whole caboodle - the technology, the partners, the brand names etc. Iid say the database and algos are secondary.

I think its wrong to assume they will use Ink results in their Web search as is - so doing a crash course on optimizing for Ink is a mass waste of money IMHO.

Given Y!'s revenue models, it is far more likely, again IMHO that they will use INK tech to sort and rank, PPC and PFI. As others mentioned they may use the tech to drive Y! shopping and other services. They will probably continue using the Google database, but subject the database to a diff algo, and MAY include parts of the Ink existing database. For people who are thinking this is a chance to SEO their way to good ranking in Y!, given Y!'s competitive strengths and reach for portallers and new internet users who dont know they can get better stuff with less ads elsewhere and their demonstated past strategies, its a big leap of faith. More likely they will monetize search as much as possible for any sites that sell or are commercial. To get hits from Y! you will have to pay direct in some form or the other, not do it via SEO as much, even though SEO may help, AFTER you have paid. To me it's a bad day for SEO.

That's my "educated" rough guess.

Personally, if i were Fast Google AV Teoma LS/Wisenut I would be working fast at new competitive advantages now Ink, as we know it, has been removed from the equation of independent sites. In some ways it is good news for search-only web properties.


 2:08 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)


I'm similar to yourself, i really don't now how this will play out it shocked me earlier today when i first caught wind of the story, but i've read a lot of views, and think we won't know till the dawn of the new year.

I've always optoed for ink, as with fast and google, and held good listings in LS/MSN and Yahoo, so unless things take a severe nose-dive, which i don't percieve at all, my presnet positions are solid, though upcoming projects, may have to react too what ever happenings occur, in maximising ROI - as in what to and not to spend money on.


 2:11 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Anyone that thinks Yahoo paid $235 mill for Inkt just to trash them has got to have rocks in their head.

Not to trash INK but use that as a leverage somewhere BIG. Possibilities are to contain GOOGLE or buy out GOOGLE by supposedly diminishing its value

Alternately Yahoo may use INK for enterprise search, yahoo shopping, etc.

I am not buying that Google is going to be out from Yahoo as that will be very foolish of Yahoo!


 2:14 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Speculation and still more speculation (I will admit though it is fun to speculate at this early point). Where this event takes the webmaster community is still a long way off. I, for one, will not change any present seo stratagies until it is clear on how Yahoo intends to incorporate Ink into their SERP's (if at all as some speculate). The only constant I have found in Internet Marketing is that there is no constant.
The biggest mistake I have made in Internet Markeking was to assume that the average Jack and Jill surfer were as critical of the SERP's as I was. Most average surfers will rely on the 1st SERP's they encounter.

Competition is a good thing. Hopefully it will motivate all participants as it usally does.


 3:37 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Let's hope we can get all our eggs out of the one basket we now hold them in.

aka ferrari360

 3:37 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Just thinking out loud here..

this could be a very clever collaboration between yahoo and google. Yahoo currently has a share of google, and google is thinking of going public - this will give google a tonne of money and almost put them on a level playing field. If yahoo uses their cash reserves to start buying up the competition it will create a virtual duopoly - setting the scene for a mega merger (aka HP and compaq) and a company that will almost have a strangle hold on the internet...

I know it sounds far fetched.. but I just cant see yahoo throwing away their current investment in google by going head to head.


 3:41 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

They are head to head, just no-one from either camp admits it.

however your idea, has a heck of a lot of merit! could be very close to the truth, and something i certainly overlooked.


 5:27 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

<----Kicking myself for not buying the 5,000 shares of INKT I was SERIOUSLY considering buying at $.34 after reading some of the posts in HERE.

I wonder whats going to happen to Position Tech, MarketLeap, INeed Hits, Verisign etc who provide Search Submit services? I doubt that Yahoo would want to outsource this function since they already have this department with their business express program, I doubt they would want to revenue share for PPI and XML feeds. And would it be necessary if Ink lost MSN? Yahoo doesn't currently offer a feed program so this may not be in their future business model especially during the duration of the Google contract.


 5:34 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Great News! Fantastic! No more Google Monopoly... It's a good thing!



 7:21 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think that if Yahoo doesn't dramatically improve Ink's basic search engine skills, it won't have a big impact on Google's dominance. Right now, Ink is in a footrace with one leg and a crutch. We shall see.


 9:37 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I don't like this one bit :-( This means that sites like MSN will stop using Inktomi, since it now belongs to a major competitor (Yahoo!). Who will take over? Or will MSN become a paid-inclusion only portal?


 10:06 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yes, it can be gut-churning having the sword of Google hanging over ones business at the end of every month, so yes, some eggs in another basket would be great, but Inktomi? ... please, tell me that their SERP's don't have as many fans as this thread would appear to indicate?

Of course the end-user could care less about who is providing the results - they just want relevancy - but I'm shocked that so many here seem to think that a mix of the Y! directory and the Ink. dB could produce SERP's that could even sit at the same table as Google. Surely you can't think users would vote with their mice and stay with (a changed) Y! once they've seen a set of Google results?

I know that many people start with one SE/Directory and tend not to move off it, but eventually quality will out - surely Google is testimony to that, like it or not? - and quality is not what I saw on the few Pure Search tests I did just now, Pure S*** actually - the first SERP page was 70% off-beam, and the 30% left was too weak to stand.

Of course we're all speculating, but on a simple level, if the current Ink. dB and algo. were to begin powering Y! searches (as Brett thinks they will, and very soon), then this is not a good thing for the searchers out there. Black and white to me.

One day, IE will ship with a search Toolbar, 'a la Google'. Microsoft will have bought who ever ends up powering that search. Whoever that is will dominate. Lord help us if it's Y! and Ink.

Fast are good, mind. Teoma getting better. Wisenut - not.



 10:32 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I bet within 60 days Yahoo will be pure ink (maybe even 30, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was Jan 1).

I'm with Brett 100%

While it's certainly a possibility that there are unknown considerations which will come to light in the months to come, personally, I think it's a fairly straightforward coup if you look at Yahoo's direction over the last two years.

They've been taking a very aggressive stance on progressively monetizing virtually every aspect of their business for ages now.

Moving from Google to Ink will transform what is currently an expense into a lucrative income stream practically overnight.

Currently they are spending money for the right to use Google's results.

With their recent acquisition of Inktomi and their paid inclusion model, they have an opportunity to be collecting money from their primary search provider, rather then spending it.

When they make Inktomi the provider of their main SERPs, paid inclusions will skyrocket since Yahoo's daily searches eclipse all of Ink's current partners combined.

Why would Yahoo dump the Google results? Quite simple really...

Yahoo is already making an staggering profit from their PPC inclusions and directory submissions. Their "Web Pages" results represent the only facet of their current search model which is not already monetized.

What your missing in the gloom for google scenario is that google will gain a lot of traffic as soon as INK takes over. I still use yahoo search sometimes because google powers it. Take google away, I'm gone...

You may be gone, but Yahoo's not going to miss you. The reality is that 99% of Yahoo's loyal users don't have a clue or a care as to who is providing the results from behind the magic curtain. The average Yahoo user is way less discerning than the techno savvy elite which populate our beloved community here.

Take a look at the top 100 searches which account for the majority of Joe Average's queries and you'll find that Inktomi is more than adequate for the status quo's needs.

Serious searchers may go elsewhere, but they're not what Yahoo's primary demographic is made up of anyway.

Does this mean we'll need an InkGuy to start joining in on this forum?

InkGuy [webmasterworld.com] keeps a lower profile, but has been hanging around since July.

I think its wrong to assume they will use Ink results in their Web search as is - so doing a crash course on optimizing for Ink is a mass waste of money IMHO.

Maybe not as is, but I will happily back Brett's wager that Ink is going to push Google out of the Yahoo SERPs in the commercial searches at the very least, if not altogether.

I do agree that their algo is likely to undergo some minor tweaks under the new Yahoo management, but I doubt that we'll be seeing any radical changes in the basic Inktomi ranking methodology any time soon.

I can guarantee Yahoo will expend more energy on perfecting their monetization process than on their search quality.

For Yahoo's business model to succeed, they don't need to beat or even match Google in relevance... they just need to keep their results relevant enough to keep their average surfer from packing up and leaving.


 10:42 am on Dec 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Very well said and I think your post goes right to the heart of the issue. I agree and particularily enjoyed "I can guarantee Yahoo will expend more energy on perfecting their monetization process than on their search quality."

hehe... how true.

This 182 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 182 ( 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 > >
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