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Yahoo Search Marketing Pay Per Click Advertising Forum

This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >     
Overture Will Be Irrelevant In 6 months
Ok maybe not 6 months :)

 2:01 am on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Maybe thats a little to strong of a statement but when MSN comes out with their PPC which will be faster and better than overtures (not to mention reps that will actually be helpful), overture will see a significant drop in revenue.

Right now overture does not deliver alot of volume and their best partner, MSN.com, will soon be gone so quality will hit the toilet. The good news is that bids should adjust down with the decrease in quality, however bids in MSN will be artificially to high as advertiser runs to be number #1 until there is a market adjustment.

MSN wants market share not profits right now, everything they have come out lately has been a loss leader, xbox, msn music download (buy 1 song get 5 free!?), they like to be category killers and bless for that, the search engines will get a much needed kick in the pants to clean up their act and get serious in this business.



 2:26 am on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Not much to add except that I hope you're right ... couldn't agree more about the kick in the pants.

Also, I've lost so much time/money trying to navigate Overture's pathetic interface and argue with them about their ridiculous "editorial" decisions, I frankly don't think your projected scenario could happen to a more deserving company ....

I wouldn't mind seeing them fight their way back if the increased competition forced them to be more service oriented ....


 2:32 am on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm guessing the pay per click service they will offer will have bugs in it.

I personaly have had great trouble with the way MSN first set up their directory submissions. They did finally get things worked out, but I bet they have trouble with their pay per clicks for the first few months.

I for one will wait a few months to let them work out the bugs. Then I'll see if MSN is worth the time.


 2:39 am on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

You guys are high. My convertion ratio with Overture is more than twice as high as AdWords for the same amount of money spent, and though a good number come from MSN the majority still come from Yahoo.

MSN isn't going to make Overture or AdWords go away, the "big 3" in search will be Google, MSN, and Yahoo - and to reach those users, you would have to advertise on AdWords, MSN, and Overture. To ignore one of those 3 markets would be silly.


 2:52 am on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Good points. But I STILL hope that Overture/Yahoo feels pressure to improve. A little edge off their arrogance would not hurt them one bit!


 4:53 pm on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

MSN launching their own CPC program will cut into Yahoo very deeply.


 9:01 pm on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm sure Overture will not survive in the end. It will be Google against Microsoft and Microsoft will capture all Overture partners other than Yahoo with better deals. Overture will have to drop their minimum bids as well. On the other hand it will take a few years before the Microsoft stuff will be useable :)


 10:20 pm on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'd be more worried about Google losing its grip than Overture when MSN comes out. Microsoft has enough revenue sources to be as patient as they want to be - Google doesn't. No one ever thought Internet Explorer would beat Netscape, but Microsoft has the reach that Google only dreams about.


 10:50 pm on Jun 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am slightly in dissagreement with some of the statements
I honestly believe we will end up with 3 main PPC programmes Google Overture and MSN and the game will be finding the hidden gems available on each of them for good ROI by advertisers but over couple of years they will all still be there , depending if they all launch adsense style programmes for webmasters to go with PPC will depend if between them they will kill affiliate marketing or severely dent it

I also believe that the new style of CPM advertising from G will take off as a number of smaller players have been acting as middle men between potential advertisers and publishers and shown some success

All in all watch the whole playing field change over next 2 years with fierce compittion by big 3 to gain publishers but also give good ROI for advertisers

many of us forget that behind the big 3 are just as many business MBA's as maths PHD's and they will come into their own in the future


 12:21 am on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think there will be 2 main ones (MSN and Google) and overture will be a huge 2nd tier engine. In the Internet business its hard to have three major competitors someone will inevitable suffer and I think its overture, they don't seem to position themselves well to stay strong.

They will still be a player and a must for advertisers because they have yahoo, but the cut in volume and quality wont justify their high CPCs and thus they will suffer huge revenue loss.

The biggest losers in this are the so called tier IIs, especially findwhat, as they will be pushed further out the share of the PPC pie.


 1:00 am on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

The only PPC more deserving of becoming extinct is FindWhat LOL


 11:15 am on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

As long as Yahoo! still has users, any smart advertisor would continue to advertise with them as long as it stays profitable.

If advertisors quit spending with Yahoo! due to a lower click cost or customer service, they will only be hurting themselves by reducing a source of quality traffic.

The way I see it is that they will lose one big publisher but gain a few thousand of small ones when their "Adsense killer" comes out.


 4:55 am on Jun 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

PPCADs --- Why do you say MSN is Overture's best partner? Yahoo owns Overture, and Yahoo Search delivers far more traffic than MSN Search. It's generaly ranked #2 just below Google. This is despite the fact the MSN homepage with its search bar is set by default as the opening page on almost every computer sold in the world. MSN search has a long way to go to beat Yahoo, IMHO.


 3:06 pm on Jun 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

So am I the only person here who has more than twice the conversion ratio from Overture than AdWords? I spend the same money on each, Overture delivers way more conversions than AdWords.

Besides, anyone who doubts Overture should take a look at this:


 1:53 am on Jun 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yahoo YPN for publishers is way slowing down. They should have not started that email sign up if they were going to be this late. I don't think this is great from a business point.

They should do something and offer some revenue generating at in Beta form to publishers and capitalize on the Buzz that they have created. Next year MSN will come up with their own AdCenter and that will already hit the market.


 2:23 am on Jun 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

overture hands down wins adwords in conversions.

for us adwords ROI really sucks compared to overture.

what is more important, these days Google SERPs also lacks quality.

don;t know what is driving Google stock though!


 2:56 pm on Jun 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hey webstart - I say MSN is their biggest partner because Yahoo! ownes overture, they are not partners thats ownership. Your right, Y! drives more traffic but by losing MSN they would lose their biggest partner and alot of volume

DigialV- Your right overture usually has the better ROI than Google but at alot lower volume. At least with Google you can scale to justify the lower ROI but what will happen when overture loses MSN? ROI will sink down, probably to Googles level now (maybe lower?) but volume will also decrease. Advertisers will still use Overture without a doubt, its a must, but would scale back if the lower ROI does not justify it, they will take a financial hit without a doubt.


 3:05 pm on Jun 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

DigialV- Your right overture usually has the better ROI than Google but at alot lower volume. At least with Google you can scale to justify the lower ROI but what will happen when overture loses MSN? ROI will sink down, probably to Googles level now (maybe lower?) but volume will also decrease. Advertisers will still use Overture without a doubt, its a must, but would scale back if the lower ROI does not justify it, they will take a financial hit without a doubt.

I spend the same amount of money on AdWords and Overture (about $11k a month each) - Overture delivers more than twice the results. Like I said before, both are well worth the money and I wouldn't consider ignoring either one.

The thing about search engine advertising is that once the visitor finds what they're looking for, they're not going to be looking anymore. So if the "perfect customer" happens to be searching in Yahoo, you should want to make sure they see your ad because if they DON'T they'll see your competitor's instead. If they like your competitor, that's it - they'll make their purchase and never get a chance to see your pitch. Omitting ANY major search engine is just silly.

The reality is that everything you guys are saying about Overture is also true for Google. Microsoft has already said they're going head to head against Google, and as we all know, when Microsoft wants something they get it. MSN is ultimately going to offer an "adsense-style" program, and because they can afford to run it for YEARS without making a penny, they'll easily undercut Google and pay out higher percentages to their content providers than Google could ever afford to do.

Why do you think Google has been buying other companies? Because they know that Microsoft is going to kick their ass, that's why, and they know they need to be more diverse than AdSense.


 6:56 pm on Jun 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Conversion on Adwords and Overture for my clients changes slightly over time (due largely to competition and click fraud). I would say if I compare the same keywords at the same placement...say #1 or #2 spots....Adwords converts slightly better. Overture used to convert better, however my clients are in extremely competitve industries and Overture's terms and conditions allow a lot more leeway with advertisers which has resulted in lower conversions.

So....my data says Google Adwords is slightly better.


 7:30 pm on Jul 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

More competition will be good. The $0.10 minimum on Overture is kind of ridiculous. They will for sure have to improve their service and interface when MSN comes out and Overture loses a big partner network.



 10:28 pm on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'll be curious to see what, if anything, happens to Google with all the big AdWords screw-ups lately. They've got the volume, but they currently have to be one of the WORST companies to do business with if you're an advertiser.


 2:28 am on Jul 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

How are they worse than Yahoo?


 2:46 am on Jul 15, 2005 (gmt 0)


[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 12:52 pm (utc) on July 15, 2005]
[edit reason] please - no outing of sites or specific search terms. [/edit]


 3:49 am on Jul 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've dealt with both companies since 2001 and in my experience Yahoo is worse to deal with and I question their business practices a lot more than Google. That said, I'm not saying I am a fan of Google either.


 4:50 am on Jul 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think MSN will just be another way for me to make more money.

Tropical Island

 10:30 am on Jul 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've been with GoTo/Over/Yahoo since May, 2000.
We have 5 different International accounts with them.

I have been with AdWords since it's inception.

Give me Google any day of the week. My recent (last 7 days) confrontation with Over/Yahoo reinforces my preference for AdWords.


 11:34 am on Jul 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

The problem with Google now is that you can't control your advertising anymore.


 4:06 pm on Jul 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

onlinethrills, I agree google has changed for the worse but clearly they are the most user friendly PPC system out there. Take anyone new to the industry and see if they ramp up quicker on Google or Yahoo.


 4:20 pm on Jul 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Now if their estimating tools were half as effective as their ability to create additional revenues through creative tweaking of their AdWords system...


 3:26 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

If MSN PPC is anything like MSN Search, I don't think Yahoo, and Google have anything to worry about.

Plus, an inside source told me they won't even be beta testing it until '06.

This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >
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