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Yahoo Search Marketing Pay Per Click Advertising Forum

Overture finally has another good idea
Content match bid vs search engine bid - choose

 8:21 pm on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Overture announced today that they are launching a new feature that will let you bid different amounts for content vs. search engine bids.

Funny enough, they call their newest partner Yahoo, although they actually mean individual Yahoo categories such as Yahoo auto, weather, etc.

I think this is the next step G needs to take as well. While content match is an excellent traffic source, the visitors never seems to be as targeted (at least to spending money) as a pure search.



 9:41 pm on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

I couldn't find a reference to it on Overture's website, or on Google news. Have a url for that?


 11:54 pm on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

I heard it from an OV rep a week ago, and then they sent it in their latest newsletter.

I'd have cut and pasted the newsletter, but that's email, and I think a nono around here.

Does OV keep an online newsletter archive?


 12:00 am on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Aha. My Overture emails go to another email account.


 3:31 am on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Great post! I haven't heard of this. This is BIG news.

We have all been expecting this, but I'm surprised to see it happen so soon. This makes Overture an ad distribution network like many of the others out there, albeit a more sophisticated one.

Let's keep in mind that one could always opt out of having your ads show up on editorial pages on both O and G, so technically this isn't a big deal. But, real world it's a huge deal. Now you can decide to have your ads show up on just editorial pages.

Our next step is to create two accounts at O: One for search engine ads and one for contextual/editorial ads. My gripe is they are very different beasts. Now, O has agreed and created an entire new marketing world.

Who is going to be interested in this?

Anyone running for office is going to be interested in having their ad appear when their readers are reading about "{state} health care," or "{state} jobs" or "{name of competitor.}

And, ya think Microsoft wants to run an link to a page with something to say on articles that talk about "open source?"

Do you think the makers of Virgia and their competitors might be looking for key terms?

And if you have several crates of hats that have the logo of the World Series champs, that's pretty easy to pencil out an ROI.

Contextual ads are going to be a lot of fun. This is a very, very smart and timely move by Overture.

Right now Dow Chemical is running G AdSense ads about how great Dow Chemical is. Alas, G has been displaying them when the article is about Dow Jones.


 3:27 pm on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's going to be interesting to see how the publishers respond to having the search engines place the PPC ads on their web sites. Those I have spoken with are leery.

Say, for example, that E-Trade maintains the top bid on Dow Jones and their message is simply, "E-Trade: 7 Second Trades Guaranteed." That's all they are saying on their TV spots now. Sure, they'll get clicks, but the ad's job here is primarily is "branding." That is to say, get people so start thinking about trading stocks online to think of E-Trade as a good place to go.

That's what a lot of advertising is about. And it works. But, in the PPC contextual world now the publisher is getting zip.

Contextual advertising is a great idea, but G and O have got a long way to go to develop it's potential. And, quite frankly, it's not the biz they are in right now. But, O's new owner understands the world of branding better than anyone on the net.

This is going to be fun.


 4:12 pm on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's going to be interesting to see how the publishers respond to having the search engines place the PPC ads on their web sites. Those I have spoken with are leery.

Welcome to webmasterworld.

Maybe I misunderstood this post buy do you know about Adsense that's been around for about six-months now?


 4:16 pm on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Only showing the highest bidder for contextual ads will probably not be tenable. Might OV copy G's formula of CPC*CTR to determine placement?


 6:18 pm on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Might OV copy G's formula of CPC*CTR to determine placement?

Doubtful, it'll cost them money. If you get a very high CTR rate, and since OVs links look like SERP links, and not like Gs ads, and I've seen some ridicouly high CTR rates on OV, the cost would be much less if they implemented Gs ranking system. OVs autobidding feature is something I think they'll stick with for a while.


 6:20 pm on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Has anyone else received this email yet?

There is no press release, no public announcement, and no announcement in the Direct Traffic Center.


 2:58 am on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the welcome. I read here often, but seldom post.

I haven't been as clear as I might.

This seemingly minor change in OV's procedure changes the playing ground for contextual ads outside of search.

Before this change, you could run the ad on search or search and editorial. Now you can run just on editorial if you tweak it right. OV doesn't want you to do this, of course, but that's where the technology and the market is heading.

If this is difficult to get your head around, welcome to the club. You're buying an ad on an article that MIGHT appear. Say you're a firm who sell cold and flu medicines. When people are reading about the flu outbreak, you can reach them now with your ad if you bid for "flu shot" high enough. (And, be certain to mention the name of your drug and that it's great in the ad--they don't have to click on it to have impact.)

Contextual ads are nothing new. You're going to find ski equipment and resorts in Skiing Magazine. But, now you can target your ads to what readers are reading about--BEFORE they go to search for more information.

If Ringo Starr decides to record a new album (heaven forbid!), he can buy "Beatles" and up it pops on any news article about Paul McCarthy.

I see great potential with this in the political area where news is where it's at, not search.


 3:08 am on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Contextual is also a euphemism for adware. Overture owns Gator/Claria.

Has anyone else seen an announcement or is this just a rumour?


 3:26 am on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

eWhisper- CTR*CPC should always net the most money, regardless of CTR.

In any case, I doubt contextual ads will have such insane CTRs.

martinibuster- I won't be advertising on Gator if I can help it. I was assuming contextual meant it would be displayed on web pages only. Do any ad networks sell Gator ads while calling them "contextual"?


 3:30 am on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Do any ad networks sell Gator ads while calling them "contextual"?

You need a scorecard to know where your money is going because everyone has a deal with everyone else, which makes it somewhat difficult to know where your advertising dollars are reallybeing spent.

For instance, Looksmart is partnered with "contextual" ad company mygeek.com who is partnered with Netster.

Getting away from the so-called contextual advertising, Google is partnered with business.com, which defeats business.com's own 50 cents per click PPC program.

And then there are feuds, like cnet/zdnet/news.com had a tiff with Overture.

The closer you look into this the more convoluted it appears.
;) Y


 6:31 am on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

>> Has anyone else seen an announcement or is this just a rumour?

I've seen a 3 january email announcement on the enhanced version of the Content Match product to be launched later this month, but no press release.

It will be interesting to see if being able to bid separately on Content Match keywords will carry over to Google Adwords.

Content Match thread June last year: [webmasterworld.com...]

Will this lure the pure SEO'ers with natural high SE rankings into advertising?
If Overture had more "partners" I'd be quite excited..


 5:20 pm on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

CTR*CPC should always net the most money, regardless of CTR.

Bidder 1. Max bid $0.75, CTR 10% Rank formula 75
Bidder 2. Max bid $0.75, CTR 1% Rank formula 7.5

Bidder 1 only needs to get a rank formula of 7.6 to be in the number one position. G drops the max bid to what they need to pay to be in the top position.

Bidder 1. Actual CPC 0.08, CTR 10% = Bid rank of 8

This nets the ppc 0.67 lower for bidder with Gs formula than with Overture's formula.

GrendelKhan TSU

 2:19 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

since I didn't see any link to actual articles on this....


(sorry if its repeat information)



 7:55 pm on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Now this is weird. Marketwatch has run out Google and replaced it with--Kanoodle?

Yeah, I know they are re-inventing themselves at Kanoodle.

Anyway, they are beating Overture to the punch here:
January 7, 2004 - Kanoodle.com, Inc., a leading provider of sponsored listings for search and content, today announced that MarketWatch.com, Inc. (NASDAQ:MKTW), a leading multimedia publisher of business news and information, has selected Kanoodle.com to provide content-targeted sponsored links on its Web sites. Kanoodle.com also announced today the launch of its content-targeted sponsored links product, "ContextTarget(tm)," the only available sponsored links product built solely for content targeting.

Under the terms of the deal, Kanoodle.com will provide sponsored links on MarketWatch's award-winning sites, CBS MarketWatch and BigCharts.

"The focus of our online business is the publishing of real-time business news content, and we believe that our editorial pages require a unique solution rather than an extension of a keyword search," said Bill Bishop, executive vice president and general manager of MarketWatch.com. "We're confident that Kanoodle.com's ContextTarget is an excellent product for our content-targeted sponsored links program."

"ContextTarget represents a quantum leap ahead in content-targeted sponsored links for both advertisers and publishers," said Lance Podell, president of Kanoodle.com's Content Division. "It is the only product in the space that is independent from keyword search advertising, so advertisers can plan, buy, measure and optimize their content buys separately from their search buys. For publishers, we are offering multiple forms of ad blocking and guarantee that we will only run relevant ads so they don't have to worry about inappropriate ads appearing next to their content."

"MarketWatch.com is the best partner to anchor our finance vertical," Podell continued. "Adding the quality and volume of their audience makes ContextTarget a 'must buy' for financial services advertisers."

The launch of "ContextTarget(tm)" comes just shortly after Kanoodle.com's announcement of the close of venture financing from Insight Venture Partners and the hire of three managers formerly of Sprinks, the innovators of content-targeted sponsored links.


 4:02 pm on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Looks like this feature was enabled over the weekend. Should be an interesting bidding week.


 9:01 pm on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Looks like this feature was enabled over the weekend. Should be an interesting bidding week.

Should work well for Overture and their advertisers. The system FindWhat is using with their contextual program doesn't separate the bids into manual parts per se but separates them automatically if the advertiser chooses to have the system monitor ROI of contextually placed ads.



 7:20 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Please note that Kanoodle's ContextTarget program gives you the ability to not only bid separately on your keyword and contextual listings, but also to pause your ContextTarget™ listings independently of your keyword listings, to write your ad specific to the contextual environment, and to schedule your ContextTarget™ listings to automatically go live or dead at specific times, with no need for manual adjustment.


 9:16 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

I can say I looked at the Kanoodle program but honestly the $0.50 minimum bid is a bit rich so bidding separately really doesn't do me any good. I do like the fact that you have acknowledged it needs to be different but why not do it like TCLA does which makes it much easier for me as an advertiser. It's also good that you all are copying TCLA in the fact that you allow different ad copy to be made for content. If you add in the other formats that TCLA has like images and video etc. then I might consider using you


 10:11 pm on Feb 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hello LorenzoFisher,

Please note that we will be adding new categories soon and the minimum bid will vary depending on the topic.

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