| 4:52 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|What I find interesting about these deals in the whole Search Engine space is that generally M&A's don't work out for the purchaser.|
Everyone (especially the City Boyz :-) get very excited at the time but after all the legals, due diligence and strategy, the actual reality of the purchase in 12-18 months is a lot harder than management ever imagined.
If you look at what Yahoo! has done with Inktomi in the last six months e.g. not a lot, you won't see any of this come out of the wash till Christmas at the earliest.
I mean Google is still serving Yahoo! even though they are now quoted by Yahoo! (see Reuters press report - http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=internetNews&storyID=3084443 ) as "archrival Google".
Contracts last longer than City Boyz plans especially as the market is so dire for everyone else.
However this will make 2004 an interesting year for everyone in Web Search.
I raise a Glass (Hic!) to never being bored in the last 7 years of this industry.
| 4:53 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Well as long as nobody buys looksmart ill be happy
Are we going to merge the 3 forums as well?
How long do you think before MSN drops or does anything?
| 5:04 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
wow look what happens when you leave your desk for the day
| 5:10 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
does this mean alltheweb.com is acquired by yahoo?
| 5:16 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>> does this mean alltheweb.com is acquired by yahoo?
absolutely... i wonder which set of search results we will see Yahoo! using when they decide they are ready to ditch the google results... altavista or alltheweb?
I doubt that they will try and integrate the two technologies. I think they will use one or the other.
| 5:22 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
why bother integrating? Yahoo Meta Search with PPC listings from overture, and paid inclusion from altavista/yahoo directory with backfills from alltheweb and google :)
(still often confused between FAST and alltheweb.com: are they one and the same?)
| 5:27 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
You are forgetting about Inktomi as well.
| 5:32 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Congrats Yahoo, keep getting better Google, and die a quick death LookSmart. I suspect someone like MS will become a vulture and nibble on the LookSmart carcass in the future.
With the business world's realization that search is currently the best advertising tool for the Internet medium, it will become more difficult (expensive) for us little guys to compete. Hopefully, smallness = nimbleness; and many of us will be able to continue to exploit our niches into the future.
IMO, the next untapped advertising area to be exploited will be affiliate marketing. We may be aware of this industry, but most others aren't. There's a lot of cleaning up and growing to do, but the potential is huge, and where there's money...
| 5:43 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
What I want to know is what's going to happen when PPC goes away? The conversion rates are pretty bad for mainstream and the prices keep going higher.
Hopefully, someone will come up with something again for the little guy soon.
| 5:52 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Conversion rates are fine if you know how to work the PPCs. I wouldn't expect PPCs to go away any sooner than those dozen subscription cards that fall out of magazine. It's a good way for SEs to raise money while allowing relevant vendors to gain exposure. The prices aren't spiraling any faster than the market is driving it (remember, prices aren't set by the PPCs, but the advertisers) which is exactly how it should be. If you are having trouble competing in a market while making a good ROI, then you need to think about going after a nitch in your market or changing markets altogether.
| 6:01 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|(still often confused between FAST and alltheweb.com: are they one and the same?) |
Kinda. FAST is the technology company & alltheweb.com is the site that "showcases" the search technology of FAST.
| 6:03 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Wow this is massive. There have been rumors about this for a while. Also, there have been rumors about Yahoo launching mixed results - not just Ink, but a variety. All those rumors are becoming a reality.
What will they do now?
Obviously they'll have Overture for PPC. They'll definitely ditch Google and use Ink, Fast & Altavista for their webpages.
They have positioned themselves as GIANTS now. Only Google can compete - can they?
Yahoo has been shamelessly copying stuff that Google has done (cache, Froogle) - so they don't mind doing that. With the additional stuff they bought, and the brand name - who can stop them?
| 6:05 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>FAST is the technology company & alltheweb.com is the site that "showcases" the search technology of FAST.
Correct. At least that was the case until Overture bought the websearch division, including ATW.
The norwegian search technology comapny FAST Search & Transfer is a heavyweight in corporate search, but no longer the owner of ATW or active in the websearch biz at all.
| 6:08 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I just have to say that buying a bunch of Overture at $16 a few weeks ago was the first time one of my speculative purchases has actually worked.
| 6:11 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
> who can stop them?
Oh, I don't see Google being massively threatened by this move. I'm not sure about the US market, but the majority of searches is done from outside the US anyway.
Yahoo is not well positioned as worldwide player. There's only a handful of countries where they have any significant marketshare. They are only present in 20 countries.
| 6:32 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|They have positioned themselves as GIANTS now. Only Google can compete - can they? |
roflmao - it was just last week when many were bemoaning Google-opoly [webmasterworld.com...]
| 6:38 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>never being bored in the last 7 years of this industry
Please remind me what has happened the past 4 years?
AFAIK just Google, Google, Google.....am I missing lots of fun and profit elsewhere?
Don't mention 2003, from the obvious demise of Google to Overture buying FAST, AV and now this.....
I apologize to the fanatic Google people here but this seals half of Google's coffin....
Tell me, with Yahoo looming why would you buy any Google stock whatsoever? Unless you're the "passion investor" what makes you think Google would do any better out on the public market than Y!?
Just buy YHOO as YHOO will gobble GOOG soon as it lights up on the board....
| 6:38 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I agree Heini,
Outside the US, I would not be suprised if Google claims 75-80% of the search market by end year. If MSN would have their proprietary medium quality search, ready and built in with new browser/office updates in 2004, I'd say they'd be the only possible contender.
Yahoo looks like a dinasaur stumbling over its big appetite ;)
| 6:43 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Hope G gets out Froogle on homepage real soon and pepper Adwords on Froogle serps :)
| 6:48 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>>Please remind me what has happened the past 4 years?
bolitto, those of us that we in this prior to June 2000, remember clearly when INK was in, more or less, the same position that Google is now (though they were NOT their own destination site, and they didn't have the largest ppc program on the net, nor the distribution, large advertiser base, etc.)
Ink had reach back then - all that part of Yahoo has is MSN now. It's 2003, 4 years ago = 1999. You could auto generate a TON of stuff & rank well across the board.
Back then, Excite was a *search engine* not a meta engine, and Iwon didn't exist.
Read the archives here & study some 'search engine history' lots of stuff has happened in the last 4 years - it always does ;)
| 6:55 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I'm not positive if this was happening before, but I ran a comparison of rankings and I'm seeing near mirror results in rankings between one particular site of mine in Yahoo and AltaVista. Were AltaVista results being pulled into Yahoo Web Matches or vice versa previously?
| 6:55 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
TheRealTerry - not that Yahoo ever said, that would have been huge news as well, since Alta has been owned by Overture for a few months.
| 7:07 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I wasn't able to duplicate the phenom with another site, but for this one in particular, the current rankings as well as the increase from the last time I ran the report were identical for more than one phrase in both AV and Yahoo. Could be a fluke...
| 7:15 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
why all the animosity towards Looksmart? I thought its paid inclusion solution was the only good one available? At least that's what I've heard. Just curious.
| 7:17 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Well our company is currently getting about 1% ROI from looksmart, and will be ditching it in September.
| 7:23 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I've seen LookSmart clicks drop and drop over the last few months too. A few sites still use up a $45 budget consistently, but far too many others are getting hit with the mimimum spend costs for only meager clicks.
Inktomi has always been good for me. I get excellent results in MSN using them, and it's only a yearly fee of $25 per URL. Best value around if you ask me.
| 7:32 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Maybe what people are referring to is LookSmart trusted feed. We're using it with great success and huge ROI numbers. But we're a top ecommerce player too so maybe there is some preferential treatment there.
But now with this Yahoo purchase i am really curious to see what will happen with the XML market.
By the way I have clients in LookSmart small business listing that generate miniscule traffic also.
| 8:10 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|Outside the US, I would not be suprised if Google claims 75-80% of the search market by end year. |
I am far from an expert, but how much of that percentage is coming from Yahoo since Yahoo is using google's results?
| 8:19 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>how much of that percentage is coming from Yahoo since Yahoo is using google's results?
Hard to tell, but I would estimate less than 5%.
| 8:25 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
how i miss those days!
i particularly miss 1996 and 1997
everything's just so different. maybe if you try to remember real closely how much stuff happened every month from 1996 to 1999 you'd understand why I say the past 4 years have been oh so booooring......
the first java applet, the first shockwave and flash movies, downloading midi songs(mp3 what?), infoseek daily updates, altavista weekly updates, lycos, FREE YAHOO!, AH HOW COULD I FORGET! netscape gold 2, then 3, then the almighty 4(comm) when IE 4.0 came in sweeping market share...then along comes 1999...
TILL BUT TODAY.....YAWN.....
And Google, the last monthly fun stuff, decides to stop their monthly update in favor of this....mess....
Now what's left? Pay per this, pay per that.....
Yeah right, something's gotta change, this Web is no fun :(
EDITED CUZ I FORGOT NETSCAPE(SIN!)
| 8:39 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Great presentation of the past ;) Loved reading through it. :)
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