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Yahoo Search Marketing Pay Per Click Advertising Forum

This 172 message thread spans 6 pages: < < 172 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 > >     
Yahoo! to Acquire Overture

 1:34 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Haven't seen any news reports yet, but the purchase of Overture by Yahoo! was announced this morning. It will be a stock + cash deal. Will post details as they emerge.



 3:23 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

The question on my mind is:

How much longer can MSN continue to use Overture and Inktomi?


 3:27 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

They will have to continue for a while since they are only in develop stage. Even if they acquire another entity, you can't assimilate infrastructure overnight. The only thing they could rapidly do, IMHO, would be to switch PPC providers and drop overture so they don't keep shoveling funds into Yahoo's coffers. But, who would they switch too? It doesn't really matter now does it, Microsoft has shown it is more concerned with strategy than quality, so I could see them going with some second-rate PPC just to spite.


 3:34 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

There goes that Google conspiracy theory rearing its ugly head again... Why blame yourself for poor SEO when you can attack someone else! (Besides the point)

ROI strategies should have been developed long ago, PPC is the natural progression of this ad medium and it's not going anywhere (nor should it.) As long as the PPC players keep up the good work reviewing listings and keeping the search relevant we should see a nice mix of good paid listings and the improved general search algos that are being developed (primarily by Google at this point.)

I think what people are not seeing (forest for the trees) is that the good old days of human listing reviews are now feasible again due to the profitability of PPCs for the SEs (we need to remember these guys are running companies and have to make money.) We should see less cases of illogical results, spam and other SEO aggravations now that these guys can afford to staff themselves effectively and develop the tech at a better pace.


 3:34 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Espotting signed their contract with Yahoo.co.uk back in January 2002 for an undisclosed time.

If 12 months then surely there would have been another press release at the start of this year?

If 18 months it would have just ended and renewed (and therefore been announced).

Most likely scenario was 2 years(?), in which case things will really play out Espotting-wise at the beginning of next year - both for advertisers (bid amounts/traffic levels drop), and for partners (revenue suffers badly).


 3:39 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)


It's not a conspiracy theory. Google with Google Adwords is just the logical evolution of a cash-flow system. To say that to understand this is to some how suggest poor SEO is silly.

In regards to ROI, my sentance should have said "NEW" strategy for ROI.

And in regards to human review.... yeah right. I don't think that this increases the chance for human review, added expenses to stockholders, etc.


 3:42 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Does Yahoo still own 10% of Google? Assuming so, it bothers me that they seem to be making competitive business decisions to combat Google while concurrently having inside knowledge.


 3:43 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

the likeliest change has to be that Yahoo search will be dropping Google results. I suppose Yahoo will replace these with inktomi, fast or av results ... or perhaps some combination of the three.


 3:44 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

From the news:

Internet services up; some seen as possible target by MSN -- Dow Jones :


jeremy goodrich

 3:46 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Smart move by Yahoo they now hold all the good cards (even a piece of Google). ;)

MS doesn't have any 1st teir acquisition possibilities left, even Ask, LookSmart, & FindWhat can't combined don't compare to what Yahoo has now.


 3:49 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

>> I think Looksmart just needs to go away... hopefully they will starve to death. <<

That's too good for 'em.

I reckon their days are numbered (and not just because I actually want to believe that). Even a blind MSN loyalist would surely see now that MSN has to start again and create a whole new and radical search experience.

Layer upon layer of PPC just isn't going to make them a serious competitor for Yahoo/Google. That much is obvious.

If I was a betting man and had to place a bet: They'll dump Looksmart, acquire a proper PPC like FindWhat, and complete their own search engine. And oh yes... it will be MUCH more closely integrated with their browser than anyone wants and will be pushing the boundaries of legality.


 3:53 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't get it. What we are seeing here is a HUGE Monopoly in the making. Seems the SEC or whomever oversees this dosn't understand the technology enough to realize it.

If any regulatory authority were going to intervene, they wouldn't have had an opportunity to yet -- so it's too early to make that criticism. This merger will have to be both approved by stockholders and allowed to happen by the feds before it's final.

That said, and with Google's position in the marketplace in mind, I wouldn't expect them to encounter any regulatory obstacles.


 3:56 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Smart move by Yahoo they now hold all the good cards (even a piece of Google).

They should be forced to sell their minority interest back to Google as part of this aquisition. Then we really have a 3-way 600lb Gorrila Battle Royale! ;)


 3:58 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

I was just saying...they need to watch out because this sure makes it nearly impossible for any smaller SE's to make any kind of impact at all.


 4:00 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Internet services up; some seen as possible target by MSN -- Dow Jones :

Earlier this morning Looksmart was up bigtime...


 4:04 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

According to Reuters, Overture's Meisel said that Microsoft has the right to abandon its contract if Overture undergoes a change of control.

So MSN could change their ppc and search providers whenever it wants to.


 4:14 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Internet services up; some seen as possible target by MSN -- Dow Jones :

What about possible targets by Google, as well? Seems to me this might be the start of a real landgrab by the three big players. Sure, MSN will have their eyes on acquisitions. I would think Google has to consider that, too.


 4:14 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

how abt msn turning friendly to google for adwords? i remember sergey saying in an interview abt no animosity with MS?
*am i dreaming wildly?*


 4:17 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

MSN could switch to espotting/findwhat.

Espotting could easily replace Overture for msn.co.uk - with msn.co.uk listings its bid prices would quickly reach overture prices.

Would this be the same if MSN switched from Overture to Findwhat? How does FindWhat bid prices/advertiser numbers compare to Overture?

[edited by: TravelSite at 4:18 pm (utc) on July 14, 2003]


 4:18 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Very true, though it would be a huge mistake if they somehow made putting Yahoo or Google's addresses into the browser not work or not work properly. That would be a very clear cut anti-trust case and make their legal woes compound by leaps and bounds. They could make it easier and more integrated to use MSN, but if people aren't able to type in the other search engines or make a bookmark, they would be really in for it.

IMHO, imaginary (and far-out) scenarios are just a waste of bandwidth.


 4:21 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

How does FindWhat bid prices/advertiser numbers compare to Overture

they don't compare. it is night and day. many dont even realize that O makes over double the gross revenue G ADwords generates. that is what having 3+ years in the marketplace prior to G ADwords can do for you. O is a profitable company, quarter over quarter.

when is the last time we saw one profitable internet company purchase another profitable internet company?

can't remember another example.

[edited by: Chicago at 4:55 pm (utc) on July 14, 2003]


 4:30 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

What about the management of it all?

Google has it much easier - it simply sells its index and/or adwords to partner sites, while keeping both listed on google.com (directory=odp).

Yahoo is totally disjointed: directory, ppc system, webcrawler technology (several), search engines (altavista/alltheweb) and its portal servies (which alone take some amount of management!).

Does it merge all technogies? Does it merge all search engines? Or does it keep them all seperate? It now owns a vast amount of technology, brands and contracts to deal with.


 4:34 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

How does FindWhat bid prices/advertiser numbers compare to Overture

True the bid prices don't compare, but in Montreal in April, Overture and Findwhat were getting drunk in the pub and Overture was noting that Findwhat at that time was worth more than them on teh stockmarket, which was news to me. Maybe Yahoo thought it was just all too cheap too.


 4:34 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, apparently they're not going to sack anyone......yet!



 4:37 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

I wonder if this means that the yahoo directory listing will be move to ppc like looksmart. That would be great for the contextual side of things.

Thats a thought ehh?

I think or I "know" yahoo will get rid of that sponsored listing program within the yahoo directory and replace it with ppc.


 4:40 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Theory Time:

Yahoo pulls together Ink, Alta, and Fast for PPI and Free index service with common algo and many, many spiders (Yahoo! Index). Overture holds onto the PPC end, and the Yahoo! Human Directory disappears.

Google has competition, as Yahoo now has the only true portal, but a quality search w/o outside sources.

M$ now has to buy up technology to patch together an index and ppc system to compete, so that it does not give money to its direct rivals. This could be a large weakness for M$ and M$N as the quality will not be the same.


 4:42 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

"Adding to my last post"

For AV and Alltheweb, If not done already, I think that Yahoo should merge the two databases but keep the algorithms they currently have.

I mean AV has a relatively small database correct?


 4:44 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

A smart/great move for MSN would be to buyout Findwhat since they already own Espotting which covers Europe.


 4:49 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Wow! Interesting times for sure.
What exciting news to come home to after a little time off.


 4:51 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

I want to know what this means for XML / Trusted feed. Overture has stated that they were working on doing their own feed for AV and FAST/Lycos, will this same feed now work for Yahoo as well? Yahoo will now control PPI and XML Feeds so in this arena there will be only three contenders, Yahoo, LookSmart and ASK Jeeves.

SEM has gotten very interesting. Can't wait to hear all the chatter at the next SES conference. :) Think about how much money they will save by just combining Yahoo and Overture parties...(LMAO).


 4:52 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

<<M$ now has to buy up technology to patch together an index and ppc system to compete, so that it does not give money to its direct rivals. This could be a large weakness for M$ and M$N as the quality will not be the same. >>

This makes some sense.

Which makes me wonder about Ask.com. They have good search technology AND they have the infrastructure in place to sell ads. Someone should be talking to them.

Question: Where is the traffic to support this purchase going to come from?

Google is blanketing the web with its Ad Sense service. Overture has something called Contextual Match--but who's really using it? (MSN? Well, MSN, besides other factors, also has a new deal with eBay.) Yahoo is Yahoo, so that's a lot of traffic right there, but is it enough? They need growth, in any case. How is that going to happen?

Doesn't Ask, LookSmart and the others need to do something to drive traffic to their service? (How does Ask compare to G and O?)

Anyway, don't forget eBay. And something is going to happen big in Yellow Pages, too.


 4:52 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)
What I find interesting about these deals in the whole Search Engine space is that generally M&A's don't work out for the purchaser.

Everyone (especially the City Boyz :-) get very excited at the time but after all the legals, due diligence and strategy, the actual reality of the purchase in 12-18 months is a lot harder than management ever imagined.

If you look at what Yahoo! has done with Inktomi in the last six months e.g. not a lot, you won't see any of this come out of the wash till Christmas at the earliest.

I mean Google is still serving Yahoo! even though they are now quoted by Yahoo! (see Reuters press report - http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=internetNews&storyID=3084443 ) as "archrival Google".

Contracts last longer than City Boyz plans especially as the market is so dire for everyone else.

However this will make 2004 an interesting year for everyone in Web Search.

I raise a Glass (Hic!) to never being bored in the last 7 years of this industry.

This 172 message thread spans 6 pages: < < 172 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 > >
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