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Yahoo Search Marketing Pay Per Click Advertising Forum

Overture Click Index - 5 empty bars
Means "not scored yet"

 7:08 am on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Click Index shows 3 bars for some of my entries but zero bars for most. Is the process of computing Click Index not finished yet?

OVs help for the "Manage Listings" page does not mention 0 bars, only 1 bar, which means "well below average"...

I see that taking a closer look to click conversion is essential for OV long term business but I still don't like it. Right now I took $-prices into all my ads to lower clickthrus and raised bids to gain higher positions. Worked out well but I guess it is not the way to go for high click ratios.




 12:40 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Almost all of ours are blank. I came here hoping someone would say that's a good thing.


 1:04 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

5 bars is good. 0 bars is bad.


 1:05 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

We've got number 1 terms with 12% CTR's that are blank. Come on.


 1:31 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Most of ours our blank but I am thinking that since they just put the system in this weekend, there is not enough data to fill in yet. I expect to see bars by the end of the day or possibly the end of the week, depending on how much time it needs to sort out the index.


 3:24 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Since the online help mentions a range from 1 bar - 5 bars only (no 0 bars!) and describes 1 bar as colored in red I think that 0 bars means something like "not computed yet" or so... doesn't look like "0 bars = bad" at the moment...


 3:33 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

"not computed yet"

It means "not scored yet"

[edited by: Mike_Mackin at 3:39 pm (utc) on May 5, 2003]


 3:37 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

I agree with the not-computed. A number of my high ctr terms are still blank.

There are a couple competitors who irk me and I hope to see them disappear. These bidders place a high bid on a term for which they very very likely aren't receiving click throughs, thus driving up the cost for everyone else.

It doesn't cost them a cent to sit on the terms and drive them up, except on the rare occasion someone might actually click on their ad (which would have to be by mistake).

I for one will be happy to see their underperforming ads dry up and blow away.


 3:58 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Playing devil's advocate, though, if you see a term that is threatened with extinction, the natural instinct would be to do what OVER suggests, which is submit a new description. They're going to suck all these people in to change their ads, a high percentage of who will then be quite surprised when their ads are instead deleted without adequate explanation.

So yeah, it's nice when our competitors are zapped, but when we're about to, there's no recourse, because OVER still acts arbitrarily, and so the people who know better will just let their ads stay there and take the risk that it'll be deleted anyway.

There's a nicer front-end here without the back-end. Baby don't got back.

[edited by: TomWaits at 3:59 pm (utc) on May 5, 2003]


 3:59 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

I for one will be happy to see their underperforming ads dry up and blow away.

I'll second that!


 5:00 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's nice to think that the competitors that drive up cost will eventually be pulled, but how likely is OVER to act quickly on taking down sites that get them a higher CPC? Also, most people know that click-thru tends to increase the higher your ranking so do you think OVER might be hoping that human nature would be to not only change your description, but to also increase your bid to improve click-thru?

I think OVER is using this as a first step to move towards more of a Google Adwords model. Google has already proven that Adwords is the model the works for them with the the ending of Northern Banners.

Tropical Island

 6:00 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

First, the information in the bars is obviously being based on partial information. I'm sure it will work itself out in the next week or so and I would be surprised in any listings are deleted until some week days are included in the calculation.

The really interesting thing is the odd search terms that are showing impressions. For example we are on an island off the coast of Venezuela and for two consecutive days we are showing impressions for "3 mile island" which I would assume no one advertises under (I haven't looked). Another example is that we advertise under "keyword falls". They are showing us for impressions under "keyword of the north" which is really odd considering our term is close to the equator.


 6:49 am on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

The only negative thing about this is that "targeted description" and "high clickthroughs" don't go hand in hand for me. I get my best results with descriptions showing my products prices. This leads to a lower clickthrough but the resulting sales are still high.

I see that OV would prefer me to write some enticing description which would cause a lot of clicks but not necessarily more sales. We will see...

Have underperforming ads been removed in the past? I never had such a case, but I guess that Click-Index has been used in OVs quality assurance for a longer time..



 4:23 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just out of curiosity, what sort of clickthrough are people seeing on Overture?


 4:43 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

what sort of clickthrough are people seeing on Overture?

For myself, on some terms Overture is giving me a slightly higher ctr than adwords; but in other cases it's adwords that is coming through.

But this is hard to compare because Adwords is a different environment due to it's extraordinarily higher traffic levels. Because of that, it's okay sometimes to coast on a 1.8% CTR, whereas with Overture you absolutely have to squeeze harder to get decent traffic.

most people know that click-thru tends to increase the higher your ranking

Not in all cases.

This has been a problem with Overture. You can place a non-relative term at the top, not pay a cent, but raise the cost to other bidders PLUS ruin the relevancy for the surfer.

I think that Overture is looking to improve the relevancy of their listings and that's a good thing.


 4:57 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I see a higher CTR on OV too but more traffic from adwords.

I am not sure I can compare the CTR between adwords and OV. I am not clear on whether the CTR in OV is based on the # of times the keyword is searched or the # of times the ad actually appears. There is a vast difference.

I am under the immpression that in adwords it is the # of times the ad actually appears since adwords gives you the ability to limit how often and where your ad appears.

OV, on the other hand, does not specify this. Depending on where you are ranking, it can make a big difference on how many times you appear.

Tropical Island

 5:01 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)


The other difference between AdWords and Overture is the use of negative words, brackets and quotes on AW. It's hard to know exactly what impressions we are getting with Over with their matchdriver. Have a look at [webmasterworld.com...] for a better idea of what's happening.

We have moved most of our limited budget to AdWords however we feel that we need some presence in Over. It takes a lot more time monitoring Over than it does AW.


 7:21 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

This is a useful addition, in that it means we no longer have to calculate CTR manually for clients as we did prior to it coming about.

That being said, it's confusing the hell out of me. We have low CTR lindex words with CTR of 20%+ and some with no index with a 100% CTR (2 clicks from 2 searches).

I'm sure in time it will be easy to understand, but see what happens when you go away on holiday!


 7:49 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmm, I have 9 terms in the "low index" file. 5 of them have a CTR of 10%+. None are big traffic drivers so if they drop them, then oh well, but it doesn't make sense to me. If anyone can shed light on this, I would love to hear it.

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