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Yahoo Search Marketing Pay Per Click Advertising Forum

Big Changes at Overture
Under-performing terms targeted + Impressions revealed

 5:06 pm on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

I spoke to Overture this morning and among the changes they will be unveiling is that they will be weeding out underperforming terms (sliding scale), and that they will start to show the actual impressions.

Although they currently say they remove terms for underperformance, I've never had any of my useless terms removed.



 6:32 pm on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

That will be nice to see. I just hope I don't have too many underperforming words.


 6:48 pm on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have had a term removed before because of its low 'click index'.


 6:50 pm on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Here we go.... another slap down for the small guy.

"underperforming terms" are in many cases the highest conversion terms, and equally the cheapest. They are a niche that the small budget can play to earn against the big boys.... the use of skill versus capital.


 7:21 pm on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

One thing I really dig about the change is that they are going to show the actual number of impressions. They are also going to have a 1-5 rating system of your search term performance, with 5 being good, and 1 meaning you better watch your back.


 7:43 pm on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

We've had about a 1/2 dozen terms removed for underperforming, and they were mostly nits. I was glad to stop receiving those dopey emails.

With the continued squeezing out of skill to make way for capital, seems like Overture's becoming more like Looksmart. They should merge and call themselves Overlook.


 1:22 am on May 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

LOL! Yeah, their slogan could be "Results you can't Overlook."


 1:40 am on May 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

While I think that weeding out the underperforming ads is a good thing, I do think they should have an algo that takes into account what your bid and rank is. If your bidding .10 and you have a 1% click thru at #8, your ad is probably much better than the ad that has a 1.2% CTR at 2.00 #1.

While they don't have to take G's approach and move the ad up, they could at least not punish the low bidder.


 1:48 am on May 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

are you serious martini?

our keywords are going to be based into a ranking system?

This seems to bring the novice into the equation?

wait! Does this mean that overture is just going to sale their soul?


 1:52 am on May 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

The thing the Overture person emphasized was new tools for analyzing your performance, and measuring it against your competitors. It'll be unveiled on Sunday.

Her headphone mike was really bad, and her voice kept dropping out, so I kind of missed some details.


 3:14 am on May 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Good stuff from a quality company. When there are tremors of a Yahoo! or MSN acquisition you know there is substance to O. Thanks for the info Martini. I look to see continued improvements in Overture. Their new bid interface is really nice and with more intelligent features as are being discussed here, the benefit and value of O will continue to rise.


 7:14 pm on May 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Aha, it's called Click Index™.
Click Index™ is a scoring system created to help you understand how well your listings are performing. It works by evaluating your listing's click-through rate relative to your competitors, while taking into account your current position.

If your listing significantly underperforms, it will be removed, but you may resubmit it if you make changes to your title and description that result in an improved click-through rate.

There's now a five-segment graph next to your keyword term that measures your "Click Index™."

I like this! I hope it eliminates those slobs that hike up the bids on irrelevant terms.

Anybody else notice any other changes?


 7:34 pm on May 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

What a brilliant interface. A few others could learn a thing or two from O's account interface. This is simply world-class information architecture and ppc application development.

Click index, "your cost", new help, better global navigation with tools, new nomenclature, all on top of O's recent changes to Add listings, et al....and next we will have the keylime tracking..

all with editoral quality control...

A combination of technology and class.

What a buy...


 7:59 am on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would give more credit to Overture if they had not used ideas Google has had in place since day one.

Everyone is happy but I compared the two accounts and the CTR for most of the terms on Overture are horrible. For one specific account in mind it makes Adwords look that much better.

(BTW, I love the new layout at Overture.)


 1:29 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

I like this! Much more user friendly.


 2:56 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

With the amount of money overture and its partners are making from we the advertisers, I would hope they would try a to "upgrade" and "improve" on a regular basis! I just hope it doesn't hurt the smaller advertisers bidding and making good money from the "under-performing" terms:)

Tropical Island

 6:06 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

While the changes to the Overture interface are an improvement I don't think I would be as overboard in my praise as Chicago. It now shows the big discrepancies in impressions between Over and AdWords and the poor quality of the word matching. We are showing impressions for terms totally unrelated to our business. The system was also brought on line before it was ready.
Time will tell how this will all affect us.


 6:19 pm on May 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Oh happy day, happy day!

They've added bulk upload for Gold users. Now I don't have to scream at a customer service person on the phone because they passed me over again for Platinum.


 12:13 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>> If your listing significantly underperforms, it will be removed

IMO, it looks like the days of cheap branding are history. If you want your name to show up, you'll have to entice people to click on it.

"Ajax Widgets - please don't click on me" isn't going to fly.

And it appears that underperforming bids will be forced to hike their bid just to stay in the game. As in a normal bidding process, top bidders will pull up the bids. Now it looks like low bidders will have to push up the bids just trying to stay in the game. A kick in the butt is added to the proverbial carrot on the stick.

The emails might go like this: 'Dear Mr/Ms Fatbudget, your bid of $2.50 per click is underperforming compared to the click-through rate of other bidders on your search term. We suggest you raise your bid to $3.00 per click to improve your position in the search results, and therefore your click-though performance, in order to remain in our search results'.

For the unscrupulous, however, it appears that clicking on your competitor's links will cause your own relative performance rating to drop and you'll have to pay more.


 12:10 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

My understanding of the click index is that if you have ads that are under-performing from a click perspective against the competitors and you get a 1 bar, then you should be taking some sort of action to amend the title, the description and maybe the position.

For those active in monitoring their accounts this is another point for you to take notice.

One thing I can't understand is if the index is a rank on how you perform against the competition, how can it be that on solos (i.e. your the only advertiser bidding), you can have some that show 3 bar, indicating your average against the competition......... if there's no competition.


 12:37 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Good question WebDiversity. I see that too. In fact have many solo bids with a 4.

This has got to be a measure of just CTR against the aggregate avg CTR. The interesting thing about my 4s is that they all have CTRs of 20% and higher.

When there is no competitor to measure, hence no data on the keyword level, you must compare it to the aggregate.

Wouldn't you suppose?


 1:56 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

If this is how they are measuring CI, then I am not so sure I like it. Personally, I think 10% is a pretty healthy CTR. I really don't care if the other people are getting 30%. For all I know, they are promising free shipping, free gift wrap and a pony ride for the kids but charging three times as much as me on the product. Of course their ad will get more clicks. I have a better conversion and probably serve the customer better, but hey, they get the clicks so let's chuck my ad.

On top of that, there is only so much of 100% to share. If one ad gets 60% and the next gets 30%, is the ad with 30% irrelevant to the user and therefore should be removed?

I would much prefer a threshold to aim for, like google has. I can wrap myself around 1%. I know I need to get better than that and I also know that if the competitor gets more clicks, the competitor will rise above me, but at least I know my ad has a chance.

I guess I won't complain too much though. Very few of my ads have a LCI, so it's really not something that affects me... yet.


 2:00 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I jsut read Tom's post in the "Low Click Index Listings" thread. He mentions Match Driver, which is a good point. Is it really fair of them to compare your CTR to your competitors if you don't have full control over where your ad appears?


 2:25 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Have you ever downloaded one of Overture's keyword listing reports? I did, and was intrigued by a category heading entitled, "Keyword Phrase" and "General Term" (I'm paraphrasing...).

The Overture person I spoke with mentioned something about different criteria for certain terms.

Something to research?

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