| 10:54 pm on Mar 31, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>but now that's been replaced with greed.
Heh! I expect greed is in the eye of the beholder. To OV it looks like a phase-out of those greedy .01 bidders.
This will make for some huge changes in the serps of the older, more competitive categories like travel and real estate.
| 4:27 am on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
You may or may not already know this but those bids at .05 are quickly going away also. How? Let me explain. I had an Overture rep call me (being the platinum user I am/was)They were concerned that I had not been adding any new terms. They wanted to help me out. They offered to find me a bunch of .10 terms in any category that I wanted. While it is possible that some of these offered terms have no bidders and a few of them already have bidders at .10, the majority will be terms where there is someone grandfathered in at less than .10. I back this up with the fact that I am continually having to either increase my grandfathered bids up to .10 to meet my new competition or delete them if I don't want to compete at .10. It's no accident that for two years, no one found my .05 terms and then all of the sudden people are finding them left and right.
It comes down to dollars and cents. Whereas, I used to spend over 1,000 a day with Overture, now it's about $115 a day. There are alternatives. Overture better figure it out!
| 4:38 am on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Every since I started using Goto, I knew it was too good to last. They will just play the law of supply and demand. The system basically employs the same "invisible hand" of which Adam Smith wrote. Throw in bid management software, and you achieve market perfetion in 24 hours,
Of course market perfection is only achieved when the market has perfect knowledge. And, in my opinion, these low entry costs are what have driven so many people to use Overture and learn it.
When it first happened, I yawned, but this change actually affected quite a few of our clients and made it a little more difficult to sell PPC advertising to clients.
On the positive side, for those of us in the SEO business, this make the free rankings all that more attractive. And let's face it, free rankings are a lot harder to figure out how to get than OT is.
| 4:43 am on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
It's annals. Annals of history.
(sorry for being anal) ;)
| 12:21 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
"these low entry costs are what have driven so many people to use Overture and learn it."
Low entry costs is also what could kill it. Too many people without sound business plans (or sense) run up the bids, then give up and drop off.
OV will only remain usefull for us as long as non-intuitive search terms are not intuited by the masses :-) More and more users is bound to mean smarter and smarter development of search term lists though, so the clock is ticking.
| 12:33 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
The 1c and 5c bids were good for non-commercial or info sites for a while. It was good while we had it, but the new prices just dont make using OV for info non-commercial sites any sense any more. No problem with it though. OV really is a system built for commercial sites as much as Google's index is a system built for non commercial content sites.
To each his own. OV's revenue comes from advertisers, not people just looking for exposure.
I see this as just a further evidence of the increasing polarity between "selling" sites and "info" sites all over the web (you can see this in Google too with Adwords and froogle) and the diff marketing strategies you need for both. And thats probably a GOOD trend...
| 3:01 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I guess I can see why they did it...but as a grandfathered advertiser this development really sucks. More money for less is all it boils down to. I went through my 100+ listings and deleted any terms that aren't as likely to bring paying customers, even though my experience shows me that often you can get a customer from some of these random keywords. Oh well. I just don't want to pay 5 times what I'm paying now.
| 3:12 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Is it possible that overture automatically changed bids from .01 to .05. How can they do that without approval?
| 4:15 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Greed seems to dominate the entire Internet world today! Especially search engines. Perfect (other) example, we have been trying to get a free, non-commercial cancer support forum in Yahoo for years with no luck! (Mind you, I am a Cancer survivor who started this site to educate people and give them a good place to meet others in the same shoes - and I fund it 100% from my pocket!) Never a response, never a listing. But paying the $299 got out Client's commercial site a nearly instant listing!
| 6:40 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
> Greed seems to dominate the entire Internet world today! Especially search engines.
Allthough I do understand your point of view, running a free website, I must say that just a few year ago "finansial stupidity" was dominating the Internet - including the search engines. To me, greed is a much better focus than stupidity if we want companies - like the search engines - to keep investing in the future of the Internet.
I don't understand how people can still get shocked by the fact that "the free ride is over". Business is business :)
| 7:11 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
There's a lot of good points about removal of the grandfathered bids:
1) For terms with just a couple of bids, if I'm paying $.10 for the number 1 and my competitor is paying $.01 for number 2, I'm at a huge disadvantage.
2) It seems clear to me that there are a very small number of outlets for premium ppc listings. In order to expand, the ppc engines will have to go after lower value outlets (such as content ads). These outlets will need a lower cpc in order not to eat their own lunch, so they have to raise the minimum cpc of the premium distribution.
| 9:13 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Had a client remove about 3000 grandfathered .01 bids on Friday (March 29th). They used to spend about $10K US per year on these little bids. Now all gone :(
| 10:54 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
My Overture traffic has dropped at the same rate as my Adwords traffic has increased in the past 12 months. This is a direct comparison of my main 20 terms and Adwords is now delivering twice the traffic at half the cost. I think Overture is under extra pressure from it's major partners to keep increasing the minimum bid. Given Google is far less reliant on partners to distribute its ads there is less pressure to raise bids.
| 11:37 pm on Apr 3, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Getting rid of the grandfathered $0.01 links is great news!
The 1 penny bid, in my point of view, is a great equalizer. It allows crappy, fly-by-night, websites compete with serious, quality content sites. There's enough crap out there already, we don't need Overture helping it to survive.
| 12:27 am on Apr 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
My one cent sites were not "crappy" or "fly-by-night" :) They are still around and prospering when multi-million dollar dot.coms run by arrogant youngsters with no business experience have closed down because they couldn't take the heat.
My question is this: if I edit a site which has gone up from 1 cent to 5 cents, does it instantly go up to 10 cents as that is the new minumum bid now?
That's the way I interpret the changes, but I just want to make sure. 10 cents is unaffordable for me.
| 4:42 am on Apr 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>The 1 penny bid, in my point of view, is a great equalizer. It allows crappy, fly-by-night, websites compete with serious, quality content sites. There's enough crap out there already, we don't need Overture helping it to survive.<<
1 penny bids are all from sites that have been around for at least 2 years. The fact that they are still using OV suggests they are not "crappy" or "fly-by-night" enough to still be operative after that time.
1 penny bids are also used by info or non-commercial sites as when they were this low, it was a cost effective means of getting exposure. However eposure and brand recognition was the only criterion, - there is little or no return on direct revenue per click for example.
However as i said above, this seems a valid move from OV. Their model never did provide a long term susbtsantive model for branding, they are sticking to the knitting - a way for advertisers to sell direct on the Web. That does not mean however that 1c bidders had fly by night sites. They may just as well have been very smart - like i expect our ad buyers to be - best value for the best targeted exposure.
Being able to afford higher advertising costs does not necessarilly mean your site is not crappy or fly by night. Sometimes the reverse is true. The statement is far to generalised to be useful, at least for me, though is some cases, there is truth in it.
In the early stages of any business, advertising is a high proportion of expenses. The highest proportions of advertising budgets are almost always approved before the product or service has been able to prove itself, as the new product/service needs exposure and publicity and has no existing customers who are re-ordering. It is no guarantee that the product or service is good, just that you have a big advertising budget.
| 8:52 am on Apr 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Doesn't it puzzle you though? I mean why didn't they say: If you want to appear on the top partner sites, you must bid $0.10?
1Lit: "My question is this: if I edit a site which has gone up from 1 cent to 5 cents, does it instantly go up to 10 cents as that is the new minumum bid now?"
All bids are going up to 10 cents. Actually all have already gone up to 10 cents, log in and see your new prices. You do not have edit the listing for the price change, it is across the board and has already happened.
| 5:19 pm on Apr 5, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I don't know if there's something 'wrong' with my account but most of my bids are still 5 cents. They were previously 1 cent.
Aren't they now going to be grandfathered at 5 cents? Or will they automatically go up to 10 cents as gsx has suggested?