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This 54 message thread spans 2 pages: 54 ( [1] 2 > >     
Overture UK doubles minimum bid to 10 pence
Will they do this for Overture US too?
TomWaits




msg:801223
 10:27 pm on Jan 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just got the email a few minutes ago.

 

hurlimann




msg:801224
 10:37 pm on Jan 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just got mine too. A forced 100% increase.

Someone should report them to the DTI as they are in a monopoly/duopoly in the UK. ( That said they will have already formulated a defence)

Guess they will do it in the US as well if they think they can get away with it.

DrCool




msg:801225
 10:38 pm on Jan 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just got my email as well.

Hopefully the US won't follow suit but the odds are against that.

Shakil




msg:801226
 10:42 pm on Jan 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Looking at the title of the email, I honestly thought they were about to give me a price reduction :)

Shak

redlion




msg:801227
 11:04 pm on Jan 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Disappointed here too - another money grab after matchdriver.

Makes Google and Espotting look even better for ROI.

John




msg:801228
 11:11 pm on Jan 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Dear Mr Child

If I could operate profitably at twice the cost per click, and hence at a higher ranking with more volume, don't you think I would have been bidding higher?

Now you have put up your unit price to an unprofitable level I can't spend ANY money with Overture.

Can I come and listen in when you explain that one to your share holders?

Yours, in charge of the bottom line

John Owen

MD

( Smart guy eh?)

webdiversity




msg:801229
 11:40 pm on Jan 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

New tools and enhancements in the coming year. All of which will be designed to benefit us.

In some respect I should be pleased. Because we charge our clients a percentage of what they spend this is good news but I feel a little sad.

It appears to be another defeat from the jaws of vistory move. No doubt some of the tools will be worthwhile, but in a lot of cases the ROI on some of the niche inventory we have will halve, so will have to find twice as much inventory to make the same money and end up paying 4 times as much for the traffic (2 clicks at 10p each as opposed to one at 5p).

More annoying, as a member of the accreditation scheme to hear about it from one of my clients rather than directly (but then I suppose we are just another advertiser) is a poor show. When we recommend a service or product it's important to have some rationale behind it, we don't have the manpower to handle the calls that this is sure to generate, and there is no FAQ.

So Google at 4p and Espotting at 5p are looking good value, Mirago has always been 10p minimum and maybe Overture thought that if they could do it and get away with it then so could Overture. Personally I think not, but time will tell, give us something beneficial for the money and it won't feel so bad, if not then prop the door open for the evacuation.

hurlimann




msg:801230
 11:58 pm on Jan 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

LOL Shak.

Kandevil




msg:801231
 12:21 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm not happy and I can see what they are doing. From what I've heard from Overture recently, they're not happy about SEO's and promotion specialists wasting their editors time with low click terms, that don't make them enough money. They had a particular gripe pre-christmas.

All terms that have a decent click through have decent competition which means most bids are above 10p anyway. But for terms such as "Widgets Afghanistan" we could get decent ROI on our money, compared to "Widgets".

They push the minimum up to 10p, making these low click, low competition terms more profitable for them and ruining my profits on affiliate programs and niche promotion of websites.

Will have to get as many new terms as possible on before the 6th of Feb as I can think of, to make use of the till 29th March lower rate, then concentrate on eSpotting and Adwords more.

Kandevil




msg:801232
 12:36 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Another thought whilst I'm at it, this email is going to remind everyone to check their bids, causing more bidding wars and forcing prices up across the board.

The monopoly thing sounds just about right Hurlimann, but when there really isn't much decent competition what can be done, and that's why they know they can get away with it.

webdiversity




msg:801233
 12:40 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think the magic words were just used......

affiliate programs

There are a lot of people (no disrepect to any of them) who are coining it using PPC and paying minimum CPC because they are indirectly advertising.

What you'll probably have is a cleansing of low spend advertisers and then eventually people will come back.

I guess we just need to work even harder on all of the things we know we should do, deep linking URL's good quality landing pages, punchy call to action sales messages. It's still pay per click, so if you get no clicks (the SEO people that Kandevil mentioned) then it costs you no more money beause you get no traffic now.

I just worked out for one of the good keywords we have paid for 630 clicks at 8p a click, so the difference for the entire month on that keyword is 12.60

One thing I would like to see though is the branding clicks for a company URL should be given to you. We have had over 600 clicks at 5p a click for one of our clients on bids on their URL. Nobody else can bid on the keyword, so why not give the advertiser the traffic for those for nothing? Instead this client is now going to have to pay 60 a month instead of 30 a month.

Just a thought!

hurlimann




msg:801234
 1:24 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

> they know they can get away with it.

They are guessing the revenue/profit they gain from this is more than the cost of defending their actions.

> The monopoly thing sounds just about right Hurlimann.

This is their achilles heal: It can be argued Overture has dominant market position. This is covered by the Competition Act 1998. Any abuse leads to penalties of up to 10% of UK turnover for up to three years of an infringement. It is also covered by the Fair Trading Act

Chapter ll of the Competition Act 1998 prohibits abuse of a dominant position in a market if it may affect trade within the UK.

It is also arguable it breaches EC law. Articles 81 and 82 of the EC Treaty are also in play as they have applied this minimum to the UK and not other members of the EEC and as such it can affect trade between the states.

As we only spend about 7,000 USD a month across all the PPC stuff it isn't worth the fight for us as we will just relook at our ROI and stop hundreds of keywords as a result.

However a "class" complaint by some here may at least get their min listings left at 5p.

Think about it as if the CEO of Overture UK:

Lawyers fees, Counsels Fees, risk of fine, risk of losing, bad PR etc

Vs

Loss of some small time revenue to keep a few web aware at 5p so they don't causing a massive cost and bad publicity and effect his Options;)

sem4u




msg:801235
 8:33 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

>even more qualified leads from a wide range of affiliate partners

More quality referrals from the likes of Oingo then! :(

sem4u




msg:801236
 8:36 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

If I read the e-mail correctly it doesn't look like the 5p bids will be grandfathered either.

tigger




msg:801237
 8:49 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Makes Google and Espotting look even better for ROI

but for how much longer? I'll put money on G & E following Overtures lead

sem4u

Looks like that to me as well

Brett_Tabke




msg:801238
 8:53 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

There is so much competition in this space now (google, espotting, and to a lesser degree other se's), that it will be interesting to see if they can sustain the higher prices.

[webmasterworld.com...]

Smiley




msg:801239
 8:58 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Remember back to when Overture UK just got started?

Well the customer service was first rate; they couldnt wait to help you set up 100s of search terms at 5p a click. Im sure that many of the members here played a significant part in building their inventory of listings and long-term customers allowing them to gain large partners like MSN. With that success they have forgotten those who first helped them gain it.

So how do you reward your first loyal customers? By doubling the price.

Yes, Id agree Google and espotting are looking increasingly more attractive.

Smiley

adamcmoran




msg:801240
 9:19 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just got my e-mail. Our business relys on the 5p clicks, as we can't compete on some of the high bid phrases, due to well known companies also bidding on them. So we have to adopt a niche phrase approach. Now with the fascists at Overture raising their minimum bid this will really effect us and no doubt a lot of other companies. As usual this change doesn't effect the large companies with huge budgets.

"thousands of advertisers reach their online marketing goals with one of the most targeted, cost-effective marketing tools available." not anymore Mr Child!

I remember the first price hike with Overture COM was it from $0.02 to $0.05?

gsx




msg:801241
 10:01 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

The 5p-9p will be grandfathered until March according to what I've seen.

There is only one of two things I can do. Either keep Overture if competitors drop out OR :) Hello ESpotting :)

Brett_Tabke




msg:801242
 10:04 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ya, I was getting a real deja vu too Adam.

sem4u




msg:801243
 10:07 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yes but on Overture USA it was $0.01 per click before. In the UK we will soon have to pay a minimum of 10p ($0.15).

[edited by: sem4u at 10:23 am (utc) on Jan. 29, 2003]

Martin_H




msg:801244
 10:16 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Fair to say, I operate in a product field that sees clicks as high as 2.99, so the 10p bit is not such a concern their. However, I have spent some time and money promoting wonderful Overture Uk to my clients with lines like 'From just 5 pence a bid'. To be honest I dont think 75% of them will be interested in Overture now.

I don't think Overture appreciate that there are no doubt thousands of webmasters SEO's and such like, selling their services and increasing Overture's turnover. What might seem like a simple price increase to them, could make a big difference to the fortunes of these people.

The only positive to note to add is it might get rid of some of the timewasters and rubbish web sites, but I for one will be looking to channel the clients budget into other forms of marketing.

chiyo




msg:801245
 10:30 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

We are in a very niche area, so Overture (US) always provided us lower costs and better ROI than Adwords. To us the only advantage of OV over Adwords was the lower click cost. If this moves over to the US we will probably move the great majority of our campaigns to Google as we are OK on AV etc thanks very much! We are a very small account and I do understand that OV makes very little out of us after their account admin expenses for us. Regardless, it would mean that niche keyword targeting for sites that are not directly selling is coming to an end (probably in all CPC engines).

Tropical Island




msg:801246
 10:34 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

This will definately affect our UK advertising. At a time when AdWords has reduced their minimum bids to cover the USA, Over is is hitting us with a 100% increase.

I really think that this will have little affect on them other then to weed out a lot of small advertisers. Even if they lose 50% (which I doubt) of the small advertisers they will stay even with less work. There have been comments in this forum and others in the past that Over no longer wants small accounts. This is just another step on this road.

A couple of months ago it was noted that they had a minimum bid amount listed for each keyword. At that time they strongly denied that they were about to implement minimum amounts for certain keywords. Now with the UK at 15+ plus it's just a matter of time before Over US ups the ante. Over DE is now at 11 with the Euro increasing in value.

Kandevil




msg:801247
 10:48 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

I find this very short-sighted, small accounts become big accounts. You make enough money to be able to afford to bid on higher cost terms and you diversify your product range, bidding on more terms.

Instead of hiking the costs of bids up, I think they should have looked at how they could lower their costs in the way they do things.

Anyone have a senior contact email address for Overture UK, where we small fry can show our disappointment?

Martin_H




msg:801248
 10:53 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think Google Ad Words will relish this news, and it tips the balance for me between who I recommend - Overture or Adwords? I have always had more traffic for Adwords, although I can't verify how qualified it is.

The big difference is this :-

If my client is selling Luxury Boats, tahn 10p minimum isn't a problem, for a potential sale of 30k

However, for my client selling dollshouse furniture at 2.20 a chair, this could mean the end of his relationship with Overture.

I think a lot of Overture's competition will take real advantage of this - and I i'd give it six months before one comes out the woodwork offering 1 - 5p a click

gsx




msg:801249
 11:08 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Martin_H you've hit the nail on the head with the dolls house example.

One problem Overture will face is lack of advertisers in certain areas (low profit/low cost items). This will mean third parties will get no results (or not enough for them to make money from their deal with Overforsure) and will start looking elsewhere - such as Espotting, Google and so forth.

Crazy_Fool




msg:801250
 11:14 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

i think this has to be a good move. many people set up their 5p listings and never touch them. they don't get shown on partner sites as the partners often only display the top 2 or 3 bids. many 5p listings are for terms with only a handful of searches per month. there must be a lot of work and cost involved for overture with very little return.

the 10p minimum will also make overture uk more attractive to partners and potential partners. maybe we'll see engines switch from espotting? maybe we'll see partner sites listing the top 3 or 4 bids instead of the top 2 or 3?

tigger




msg:801251
 11:14 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Anyone have a senior contact email address for Overture UK, where we small fry can show our disappointment

Do you really think they will care about the small accounts, I don't. I know I will be stopping a load of bids before the click increase to 10p

Crazy_Fool




msg:801252
 11:24 am on Jan 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>it tips the balance for me between who I recommend -
>>Overture or Adwords?

overture, adwords and espotting listings are displayed on different engines. advertising on only one means advertising to part of your potential audience. you can make a return on all 3 *if* you use them properly.

>>However, for my client selling dollshouse furniture at
>>2.20 a chair, this could mean the end of his
>>relationship with Overture.

does it need to end the relationship? do customers look for and buy only one item then never return? if so, then fair enough, but if they tend to buy more than one item, there's a fair chance of PPC listings working at 10p as well. modify the site to encourage customers to buy more than one item - make the PPC listings work. there is also something to be said for customer loyalty - once they've clicked through and made their first purchase, make sure you keep the customer. look beyond the initial cost-per-click.

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