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Ranking high in MSN via L$
Anyone know how to rank well in MSN using L$?
Internet Marketing M

 1:42 am on Oct 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have been analyzing the results on MSN for some competitive phrases. I can tell you that pagerank has 0 to do with the results, so I suspect that neither does link popularity because they are basically the same thing.

I also have discounted:

Text on the page, believe it or not.

Title, believe it or not

alt tags...

I am out of ideas on this one, unless they use a different algo for the results they have in there that have L$ tracking codes on them, and the ones that do not (I assume they come from looksmart also, but are not pay per click, ie, grandfathered in, or L$ editor added so as not to have a completely garbage search result.

Anyone have any ideas here?



 6:46 pm on Oct 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

I asked a similar question a last week. Now that Yahoo is gone (as a unique target), MSN is the only other game in town. What's the current consensus on how to rank well?

Like IMM I've tried to discern some patern to the pages ranking above my own, but could find no pattern (other than a single competitor being #1 for each word I checked).

My most basic question would be: Do on page factors (derived from Inktomi's Slurp) play *any* factor in sorting the LS results at MSN?

What role does Zeal play?

Is there a seniority factor? (Sounds ridiculous, but I had read a mention of this)

P.S. Am I totally dense for not knowing this? I feel very comfortable with the Google algorithm (discounting aspects of the most recent update), but know next to nothing about MSN. I would think this would be discussed much more.


 6:49 pm on Oct 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure about the seniority factor, but it begins to feel like there is when you don't see the results change for months and months....


 2:47 am on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

I happen to be a Zealot, who are the volunteer editors who handle the non-commercial Looksmart listings. Zealots basically have the ability to see the entire Looksmart database from an insiders perspective. As far as I can tell, basically it makes no difference if the listings come from the pay Looksmart or nonpay Zeal. It is all one database.

OK, here is how Looksmart works. The HTML page title, on page content, alt tags, etc. are TOTALLY irrelevant to Looksmart. The Looksmart database has no clue what is actually on the page. It all depends on how the editors decide to enter a listing in Looksmart. (On the Zeal side, Zealot = editor) The pay Looksmart editors control the pay listings. Pretty much the volunteer Zealots are in total control of the nonpay listings. Makes sense from Looksmart's point of view. Why should Looksmart want its pay editors wasting their time (and company money) on nonpay listings when the Zealots are doing this for free for them? Pretty much the Looksmart editors seem to leave the Zealots to do their own thing. I'd have to figure if some Zealot were really screwing up the Looksmart editors would intervene, but that is not common. Also, there is an internal hierarchy of Zealots. The Zealots who have been around the longest and have the most points pretty much have great influence. Thus, this acts as an internal control at Zeal.

My best guess is it all depends on how the Looksmart editors (this includes the Zealots as they manipulate the same database) decide to list any site in question. I have no reason to think that pay listings rank higher than the nonpay ones. Thus, as a Zealot if I enter a listing such that with whatever algo Looksmart uses my edit comes up better than a pay listing, I'd expect that my edit would come up higher. Basically, the page itself, and what is on it, means zilch at Looksmart. It is what the editors in control of the listings that govern.


 2:50 am on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

>I'm not sure about the seniority factor, but it begins to feel like there is when you don't see the results change for months and months....

Odds are that once a Looksmart editor or Zealot enters a listing into the database, nobody is gonna change it. Thus I'd expect the results to stay fairly constant over months.


 5:46 am on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

The question here seems to concern ranking high on MSN thru a listing on LS. Keyword(s) in directory title, repeated in description if possible and lots of incoming links/PR. Works for me.


 6:53 am on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

How do you know it isn't your Looksmart listing is just right for your keywords? I see know evidence Looksmart is even bothering with the site's HTML.


 8:04 pm on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thanks for finally clearing up the question I have been wondering about for months.

Does anyone know what is the length of the contract between L$ and M$N?


 8:26 pm on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

Can I get a confirmation that on page factors (as spidered by Inktomi) have NO impact on the order of the Looksmart/Zeal results at MSN?


 9:10 pm on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

I asked this question about a month ago when my site went to #35 serp from a #1 or #2 serp for the previous 6 months. On LookSmart it is still rated at #4 and on Inktomi it was #2 last time I checked. Nobody had an answer then, and the various threads on this since have produced no answers either. The only thing that I can think of is that MSN weights heavily towards the first word of a multi word search phrase - at least that seems to be true for my most important keyword phrase which is two words, with the first word being very important to my topic category. All of the sites above mine are high up for that first word, but *most* do not even contain the second keyword.


 9:25 pm on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

I had a lot of trouble with a listing {buried) Until I changed to a keyword domain name and worked on the title then bingo. However I am sure as rfgdxm1 has said the editors control it.


 9:29 pm on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

I thought proximity was the secret for awhile, but it's very easy to find examples that contradict that. How can people not be interested in figuring this out? Doesn't MSN account for 20-30% of searches?


 9:30 pm on Oct 15, 2002 (gmt 0)


>Does anyone know what is the length of the contract between L$ and M$N?

This contract expires in December of 2003.


 12:37 pm on Oct 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thanks Quinn

Hey Slud

Where did you find that stat (MSN has 20% to 30%)?
I was hunting for that kind of data just the other day.

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