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China to close local websites if unregistered
bill




msg:799082
 8:35 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

article [news.yahoo.com]

Beijing announced in March that every China-based Web site now had to register and provide complete information on its organizers by June 30 or face being declared illegal, the Paris-based Reporters Without Borders group said in a statement seen on Tuesday.

I know that locally hosted sites are supposed to register themselves, but is this really news? I would be interested to hear how this ordinance truly affects the average Chinese webmaster. This story sounds a bit sensational to me.

Would local webmasters suggest that Chinese language sites hosted in other countries be registered?

 

angiolo




msg:799083
 10:26 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yes!

It's right.

We have a chinese site that for few days had been forced to show only NO COMMERCIAL INFORMATION.

Fortunately in few days we got the "license number" and now the commercial content is on line again.

We have now a chinese licence number on the index page....

redstorm




msg:799084
 12:47 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

it's a signal that government departments are trying to lead IT industry to development in a safe and orderly environment.in the past years, China's IT industry developed too quickly and some loopholes came out. That's my conclusion.

bill




msg:799085
 12:37 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Could anyone post more details about this law? I'm still not clear about who it covers. Who has to register, and how could parties outside China register (if that's even necessary)?

netvisa




msg:799086
 5:44 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

My understanding is that the new law says every web site hosted within China(based on IP) will need to register with owner's real name, ID number etc. Starting from July 1st, any un-registered web sites will be automatically blocked using a software the government controls.

bill




msg:799087
 6:09 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

There is a large contingent in the SEO community who believe that local hosting is an essential element of their campaign. I don't necessarily agree with that for the China market in particular, but I'll bet there are quite a few people outside China who are hosting sites locally. I'm wondering how these sorts of cases are handled. Does the local host take on this responsibility on behalf of his foreign clients?

redstorm




msg:799088
 11:16 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Does the local host take on this responsibility on behalf of his foreign clients?

yes, local host can apply for registration to the government on behalf of their customers. But the customers must ask for the host company to do these things for them.

Hinso




msg:799089
 11:21 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

it's a signal that government departments are trying to lead IT industry to development in a safe and orderly environment.in the past years, China's IT industry developed too quickly and some loopholes came out. That's my conclusion.

That's a tactful way of putting it. Censorship is another.

bill




msg:799090
 4:19 am on Jun 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I got a little more information about this law.
(Thanks angiolo)

In January 2005, a regulation was issued stating that all websites hosted inside China (not including those hosted outside China) must be registered or approved.

  1. All commercial websites must be approved
  2. All non-commercial websites must be registered

You can submit your website information to the Chinese Ministry of Information Industry here:
[miibeian.gov.cn...]
They say that you can obtain your registration or approval number within 20 days or so.

HitProf




msg:799091
 1:38 pm on Jun 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

Any thoughts on how a site may benefit from going through this procedure? Vs same site hosted outside China? Or reverse?

Can a non China based company have a .cn site?
What's the benefit of hosting inside/outside China?

And when exactly is a site commercial (online sales, or other as well?)
Thanks for you comments!

bill




msg:799092
 12:20 am on Jun 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

HitProf this is only for websites hosted in China. The benefit is that the Chinese government won't shut your site down. If you don't have a registration or approval number you can't have a site it seems.

Can a non China based company have a .cn site?

Yes, .cn names were opened for worldwide registration in 2003 [webmasterworld.com]. Anyone can buy one now.

What's the benefit of hosting inside/outside China?

Hosting inside China has the benefit of access to the market. It is less likely your site will be blocked as sites outside China sometimes are.

Hosting outside China is less restrictive and is not subject to the controls of the Chinese government. I've found it to be cheaper as well.

And when exactly is a site commercial

I haven't read the regulations, but I'd assume any business or company site would fall under this. I don't think the absence of an e-commerce system would change this. Maybe one of our members in China could clarify where they draw the line in this distinction?

newsphinx




msg:799093
 6:35 am on Jun 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyone can buy one now.

That's not true. You are not allowed to take a cn domain if you are a Chinese citizen. Only companies, organizations, and govs can take cn domains. However, I have seen many foreign individuals who register cn domains. That is really stupid. :(

Only those running non-commercial sites (hobby sites for example)with their servers in China need to register. Commercial sites have to be approved yet in another system, with a fee involved.

mrlaw




msg:799094
 7:16 pm on Jun 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

newsphinx, I think there are two type of .cn.

The first type is .com.cn, .net.cn. Only companies, business with Chinese presence can register this type of domains.

The second type is top level .cn domain. Registration is opened to anybody in world.

newsphinx




msg:799095
 10:00 am on Jun 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Mrlaw. That's simply not true.

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799096
 1:18 pm on Jun 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

interesting...

This is, in effect, basically the system ALREADY in place in Korea. Everything is tied to resident registration number. So users, companies whatever, can't really do anything/sign up for anything anywhere (even via portals) without having to register their personal id numbers (or company id numbers).

And sytem worked fine for korea, as we've seen. People have no choice....so they did it. Ironically, the reverse situation to China, Korean govt changed the law recently so portals, companies, web sites, etc can NOT require users to supply their registration number when signing up for whatever services.

But its so embedded already in the system that result is you still need it...and will be for while.

The difference of course, is its not a government requirement (thus not centralized) as in China...the requirement came from the companies themselves originally.

but again.....

the end result is basically the same from the users perspective.

I posted an article about this recently:
Korean Internet RULES! but you're not invited [webmasterworld.com]

bill




msg:799097
 1:26 am on Jun 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

That's not true. You are not allowed to take a cn domain if you are a Chinese citizen.

I've read through the domain policies on the CNNIC [cnnic.net.cn] site and have never seen these restrictions for registrants. Could you link directly to these regulations for us?

Only companies, organizations, and govs can take cn domains.

Although that may have been the spirit of the initial policy it certainly hasn't been enforced that way. If I read through the CNNIC FAQ [cnnic.net.cn] about registering .cn domain names I don't see any mention of that at all. In fact they use the word individual several times when indicating who can register one of these names. I've registered plenty of .cn domains as an individual at several different registrars, and never once have I been refused service for being an individual buyer, nor have they asked me for proof of citizenship, so the reality of the situation seems quite different to me.

This is, in effect, basically the system ALREADY in place in Korea. Everything is tied to resident registration number. So users, companies whatever, can't really do anything/sign up for anything anywhere (even via portals) without having to register their personal id numbers (or company id numbers)

I was just reading an article yesterday about Japan's lawmakers attempting to encourage people to use their real name on the Internet -- for forums, auctions sites, blogs, etc. -- and how they thought that would be a good way to curb a lot of the fraud and subversive behaviour they're now seeing online. I don't see any way they could enforce this without a system like they have in Korea. Make everybody register their government issued number and deny service to those who refuse. I don't necessarily agree that this would be the best route to take in Japan, but we may indeed see this in China. This site registration law is a step in that direction.

newsphinx




msg:799098
 2:11 am on Jun 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello, Bill. CNNIC does not have a clear faq. In fact, individuals can not register cn domains. Visit this link [tech.qianlong.com] (I assume that you read Chinese). Although individuals can sometimes slip through the rules and take cn domains, it's illegal. Your cn domains can be revocable at anytime. However, you foreigners can get cn domains much easiers since those stupid bureaucrats mostly do not read English. I tried to register two cn domains. One request was rejected while another was approved. But later they found out that I was an individual and suggested me to transfer that domain to a company. Otherwise it would be taken back. I have to give up that domain.

bill




msg:799099
 2:40 am on Jun 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

newsphinx, I don't doubt that what you're saying is true. It's just that all the evidence I have seen from outside China is that the enforcement of this policy seems different. This would not be the first time that the domestic rules differ from the face shown to the global public.

That article you link to does discuss the problems of .cn domains for individuals. I haven't seen those specific restrictions discussed on the CNNIC site. However, your firsthand experience is certainly valuable information.

Would you agree with the following revised definition of .cn ccTLD availability?

Second level .cn domain names are officially available for companies and organizations worldwide. Although individual ownership is strictly prohibited for individuals in China, it is quite easy for individuals residing outside China to purchase them.

Glamba




msg:799100
 9:46 am on Jun 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

There are actually 2 registrar systems for .cn domains.

One for outsiders and one for mainlanders. It could very well be that the internal registrars impose additional restrictions.

newsphinx




msg:799101
 3:21 am on Jun 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Would you agree with the following revised definition of .cn ccTLD availability?

Second level .cn domain names are officially available for companies and organizations worldwide. Although individual ownership is strictly prohibited for individuals in China, it is quite easy for individuals residing outside China to purchase them.

Wow! Good revision you've got. Your English is much better than mine. ;)

BestProbe




msg:799102
 3:33 am on Jul 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Chinese government has a stupid policy (of course it is not the only one).. The personal WMs such us me use Hosting out of China now (And cheaper price than in China, Cheers)

Of course my site is not registered and it is still on line

nomatter




msg:799103
 8:48 am on Jul 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

As far as I know, you can register .cn domain individually through some registars outside China, you can also register .cn domain with registars inside China. The only thing difference is you have registar company address instead of your own address with Chinese registars.

The law for commercial and non-commercial websites is aim to those bogus, gambling and porn websites.

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