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Asia and Pacific Region Forum

    
PPCs in Korea....
Local upstart PPC player in Korea (Overture isn't first)
GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799345
 9:54 am on Feb 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

With all the hype about overture's launch in the Korean market in a few months, I thought that people interested in PPCs in Asia should know that a local PPC already officially launched in January(?), called Zingu. (www.zingu.com or .co.kr) It looks to already have advertisers and a growing affiliate network and offers the full suite of standard PPC feature plus a few extras (maybe targeted for the Korean market).

It is well known that the Korean market heavily favors local companies and as such, this may be a big factor for advertisers, but more significantly, Affiliate partners(unlike Europe where there is not necessary an advantage to go with espotting vs. overture). From reports, Overture's deal with Daum was before Daum was even approached by Zingu. Who knows if it will be a factor for future deals. Not having first mover advantage in a market that doesn't know PPC from "down with OPP" may be significant as well.

In any case, it looks like Overture, Google and Zingu are all going to start on fairly equal footing. Should be interesting.

Additionally, Zingu looks to be positioning for an english version (link not active at this point). Contrastingly, as of yet, Overture Japan has no english site submission to speak of....I would assume the same will hold true for its Korean launch. What part that plays in Zingu's or Google and Overture's long term goals is anyone's guess.

Google's plan for the market are a mystery, but they HAVE been pushing for affiliate sponsored link deals in Korea as well.

Does anyone know more about this market or Zingu? Also, I was wonder if people in the US and Asia actually ever market via PPC in foreign markets (eg. US advertise in, say, Overture Japan?)

thoughts?

 

bill




msg:799346
 2:36 am on Feb 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Overture Japan has no english site submission to speak of....
That's not entirely true. We have members here who have transferred their English keywords over to an account with Overture Japan. The Overture advertiser interface currently works in English, French, German, Japanese, and soon Korean. Bidding on English keywords in Japan is probably not going to bring in a large return compared to Japanese, but it certainly can be done. I would assume that Overture Korea will do the same thing.

We really haven't had many people here involved in the Korean market, at least not many that post about it, so thanks for keeping us posted about the market there.

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799347
 1:57 pm on Feb 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

NP! Glad I could be a contributor to an area of the world most ppl don't seem to know about! :D I think most of the reason no one posts about the area...is like I said..there simply were NO PPCS IN KOREA! (until the launch of Zingu a lit while back).

I will be glad to offer whatever info and knowledge I can about this market.

Also, I guess I should have been more specific...I meant there is no DIRECT way to submit english keywords to Overture Japan---without KNOWING Japanese I mean.

I did hear that you could transfer english keyword if you contact overture directly (as you can also merge accounts under one login id), but there is no english version of the japanese site.

Of course, the japanese (and soon korean site) is in japanese (and respectively so for other foreign language overture sites)....but there are no ENGLISH VERSIONS of those sites. The english accessible versions only submit to the english overture sites (USA, UK).

Or is there something people know that I don't about those sites? (entirely possible)

:D

netvisa




msg:799348
 8:59 pm on Feb 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

GrendelKhan - Very nice to have someone who know the Korea market to be here. I am working in the Chinese search market and would like to exchange ideas with you.

Thanks

[edited by: Woz at 12:50 am (utc) on Feb. 10, 2003]

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799349
 3:45 am on Feb 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

sounds good to me netvisa!

um.....msn? (don't know how things work around here yet....what is sticky email? how do you quote a post? lol...sorry for n00b questions.)

Also, about english vs foreign language versions of PPC. Zingu is looking to actually have a true english language version. Overture is not.

How's China the PPC market?

Woz




msg:799350
 3:51 am on Feb 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi GrendelKhan, a late Welcome to WebmasterWorld.

StickyMail is the internal mail system we have here. Have a look at the top of the page and click "You have Mail".

Onya
Woz

bill




msg:799351
 4:45 am on Feb 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

there is no english version of the japanese site
GrendelKhan_TSU I'm not sure I'm clear about this. Overture Japan is almost an exact copy of the English version of Overture. The advertisers interface, according to my understanding of conversations I've had with Overture staff, is identical as well. You can choose the interface language you prefer, but the way you manage your keywords is the same. One thing that is different are the SERPS for the local Overtures. However, if you're bidding on English keywords on Overture Japan you can track the keywords the same way you would on any other Overture site. Could you explain why you're saying this?
GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799352
 1:21 pm on Feb 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

ARRRRGGHHHH! hit the wrong button and lost my loooonnggg original reply. HHHAATTTEEE THAT. #$@#$! >=(
#@$#@%@%!$$@%#$%#%^$%&%^&%&*$%#$$!@!~~~~!

<<<ok, flame off....sorry about that>>>
:P

sooo since I don't have the energy to write it again properly, please excuse the curtness of this reply :D...

1.Thanks for the welcome all! Great forum! :)

2. Bill, forget what the "overture staff" said.
Go directly to Overture Japan. (http://www.jp.overture.com/d/home/)

Assume you know nothing of Overture US (don't have an existing account with them) and you don't speak/read Japanese.

Try to sign up.

That about says it all. ;)

But for the skeptics...I'll make the point further...
if for some reason you get as far as the prices for different accounts....tell where on the site you can figure out how much 19,800yen is in US dollars or how to enter your credit card and billing information or how much a minimum bid in YEN is worth. Yikes!

If you still manage to get through it....

let me know how. ;) :D

bill




msg:799353
 4:21 pm on Feb 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

GrendelKhan_TSU sorry to hear about your message...it happens to all of us at one time or another ;)

Assume you know nothing of Overture US (don't have an existing account with them) and you don't speak/read Japanese.
Try to sign up.
Then I'd click on the icon located in the top right corner of every page on Overture Japan's site that says "Select A Country" in English and go to the US site where I could read about everything in English. Likewise for German and French, and soon Korean.

When Overture Japan was starting up they had all their documentation in English and Japanese. Overture runs a lot of their Japan operation out of the US. I haven't looked into the Korean setup yet, but they may be taking a similar approach. Regardless, they were very good about communicating in English about the Japan market. Maybe they'll do the same with the Korea market.

If you're concerned about getting into the Japan market, but you don't speak Japanese, but want to bid on English keywords in Japan, then we've had members here do that already. If I wanted to bid on English keywords in the Korean market I'm sure Overture would be just as accomidating. I guess my biggest question would be why bid on English words in a Japanese or Korean market? Is there a big enough market there to get traffic enough to see a return for your efforts? In some areas maybe there is, but you'd certainly get a much better run for your money using Japanese or Korean keywords in their respective markets.

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799354
 12:03 pm on Feb 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

"Then I'd click on the icon located in the top right corner of every page on Overture Japan's site that says "Select A Country" in English and go to the US site where I could read about everything in English. Likewise for German and French, and soon Korean."

Again, you missed my point....or I am not making my point clearly (apologies in advance). I am NOT saying its NOT POSSIBLE to figure out where stuff is if you compare the foreign language Overtures to the US/UK ones. NOR am I saying that its NOT possible get your english keywords listed on foreign language Overture by going through US/UK customer service. I am saying there is NO STAND ALONE ENGLISH LANGUAGE VERSION of those sites; such that, you sign-up WITHIN the foreign language site and have you results appear in the respective local results.

In any case, comparing the sites still doesn't help you figure out what money conversion rates are. Thus, there is no way to do register without going through the US/UK sites first and then asking them to transfer them (which I acknowledged as possible earlier).

The difference is having a true english version site of a foreign language PPC so you can register with NO COMPARISON SITES OR OUTSIDE SUPPORT (customer service).

"I guess my biggest question would be why bid on English words in a Japanese or Korean market? Is there a big enough market there to get traffic enough to see a return for your efforts?"

short answer: YES.

"In some areas maybe there is, but you'd certainly get a much better run for your money using Japanese or Korean keywords in their respective markets."

In general, I agree...but same cases, NO. But that's another story and its wasn't really my point. ;)

ade_uk




msg:799355
 4:29 pm on Feb 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yes, you're right that if you go to overture.jp it is tricky working out how to sign up since all of it is in japanese, and simply clicking the UK or US flag just takes you to sign up at the US etc Overture leading you away from Japan....

However, if you click on the button on the right - below the main bar of japanese language on the Overture JP homepage, you can then select 'in english' and then you do get the english interpretation of the site

Once you are in your Japanese account, you can submit english words and english descriptions etc

Hope that helps?

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799356
 6:52 am on Feb 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

However, if you click on the button on the right - below the main bar of japanese language on the Overture JP homepage, you can then select 'in english' and then you do get the english interpretation of the site

YES! it does....kinda

...I can't find the button you refer to! I am sure I am the one being an idiot (and blind)...but I can't find it. I've click even button there is to click on the Overture Japan home/front page.

Maybe I don't have that button cause I have a Korean browser? :-S

I found "in english" on the DirectTraffic page login page...but that only seems to provide english for that page only.

color me confused, but ....what am I missing?

ade_uk




msg:799357
 9:53 am on Feb 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I found "in english" on the DirectTraffic page login page...but that only seems to provide english for that page only.

yes thats what I mean - if you log in here everything remains in english but you ARE IN the japanese portal

bill




msg:799358
 2:24 pm on Feb 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

The only thing you need to control an Overture account is the Direct Traffic Center...the advertiser login...Overture provides access to this tool in English regardless of what country you are targeting and no matter what language your keywords are. Although it may not kick you in the pants from the local login page I think if you're motivated enough to market your site in a foreign language market that Overture covers, finding the DirectTraffic login page shouldn't be too much of a stretch. I agree it does take a bit more effort to find though ;)

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799359
 5:35 am on Feb 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

true true...if you're motivate enough its possible. But as we all know in the internet world...wouldn't it be better to make it as easy as possible? How about I rephrase...

Wouldn't it be nice if one of the foreign PPC engines (not necessarily only Overture) had a true english version (without leaving the site) to register your english keywords/website (perhaps offered translation services of the keywords, if not the whole site) so you could advertise instantly internationally?

I know I'd use it (or be more inclined to). Maybe I'm lazy, but I hate jumping through hoops when I shouldn't have to.

:D

bill




msg:799360
 6:46 am on Feb 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Wouldn't it be nice if one of the foreign PPC engines ... had a true english version ... to register your english keywords/website ... so you could advertise instantly internationally?

GrendelKhan although that would be wonderful for English speakers I think it may be expecting too much. These systems are being set up focused on local markets, so in order to be international wouldn't it make more sense to put the burden on the outsiders to learn the local market's language?

Although the majority of content on the web today is English I wouldn't expect it to be that way forever. Maybe if we're lucky the quality of machine translations will some day be somewhat usable. Until then I believe it is up to individuals to learn the language and culture of the markets they're targeting or hire someone who does. That has been keeping me employed for many years now. ;)

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799361
 8:53 am on Feb 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

GrendelKhan although that would be wonderful for English speakers I think it may be expecting too much. These systems are being set up focused on local markets, so in order to be international wouldn't it make more sense to put the burden on the outsiders to learn the local market's language?

very true again Bill.

but....
Additionally, Zingu looks to be positioning for an english version (link not active at this point).

;)

bill




msg:799362
 11:23 am on Feb 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ah-ha...I see where you're heading now...

Are they positioning this as a Korea market PPC or do you think they'll unleash it on the English speaking world in general?

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799363
 1:57 pm on Feb 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ah-ha...I see where you're heading now...
Are they positioning this as a Korea market PPC or do you think they'll unleash it on the English speaking world in general?

I would say ...both. :P

But I suppose time will tell on that. As the saying goes:

"The tricky part about making predictions---is that it involves the future."

LOL. That line always cracks me up.

bill




msg:799364
 4:40 am on Feb 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

In Japan we have the Korean company Naver that runs a search/directory/portal in Japanese. This seems to be mainly targeted at the Japanese speaking ethnic-Korean market in Japan. They don't do PPC per se, but did have some paid directory listings and ads last time I looked. I found it interesting that they would target this market and not the wider market in Japan.

When you said Zingu was considering an English interface I wonder if they're looking at the ethnic Korean market? It would make a lot of sense now that i think about it.

GrendelKhan TSU




msg:799365
 4:38 pm on Feb 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

In Japan we have the Korean company Naver that runs a search/directory/portal in Japanese.

Naver is one of the most famous portals in Korea. They are home grown and a good example of how Korean like Korean things. They have also very clearly stated that they are NOT interested in integrating sponsored links (at this point at least) with ANY PPC. So looks like Naver is going to go the google route ie: do it themselves (if they do PPC stuff at all).

When you said Zingu was considering an English interface I wonder if they're looking at the ethnic Korean market?

I know that they wouldn't forget about this market. But I imagine the core differences actually come down to the value of a niche market vs. general market at that point.

That is, on the margin, it may have been more cost effective (successful) for Naver to hit ethnic Koreans in Japan rather then compete with existing true Japanese portals. Japan and Koreas relations is long if not always friendly...so reason for this move could be countless. While Zingu on the other hand, would benefit from the same English-speaking-ethic-Korean market AND from a much much broader stroke by accessing the english speaking world in general. imho. :)

Interesting observations nonetheless bill. :D

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