homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.204.142.143
register, free tools, login, search, subscribe, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Subscribe to WebmasterWorld
Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / WebmasterWorld / Professional Webmaster Business Issues
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: LifeinAsia & httpwebwitch

Professional Webmaster Business Issues Forum

This 38 message thread spans 2 pages: 38 ( [1] 2 > >     
What do I charge my clients for?
Creating websites for clients and marketing how do I work out my prices?
lasko




msg:782000
 6:30 pm on Feb 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have been creating websites for a few years now mainly for myself and for family businesses, recently I have improved my skills to a professional standard reaching top postions in Google etc and enhancing my graphics.

I am now being approched by businesses who would like me to work on their websites as an independent worker. So where do I start to count how much I charge.

For example if they need to registar the domain name, hosting, content management and Internet marketing. My programming skills are none existant so I can only offer good well designed websites with very high rankings.

Can any one give me any ideas or advice on how to structure my costs and packages so that I can now put my skills to good use.

I want to concentrate on small businesses that require a standard website and give a personal service to help businesses discover the Internet.

Would be very grateful for any ideas or comments

 

paragon




msg:782001
 6:59 pm on Feb 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

hey lasko,

try these threads:

[webmasterworld.com...]

[webmasterworld.com...]

[webmasterworld.com...]

Plus there are indexes for pricing on the web.
[btobonline.com...]
Of course, these are larger firms, and the numbers though averaged, are also quite high for small businesses.

Through discussions with other professionals, $50 - $75/hour for design is appropriate - depending on skills, experiences and other results-driven solutions like SEO.

Be sure to cover yourself with a godo contract agreement if you are working as a free agent.

Determine your target market and what the market will bear. Also imagine what your target would like to see in a package, that would save them time and money. For example, your suggestions to help a small business owner to setup their domain, hosting, site development, and possibly seo will provide them with a 1-stop convenience.

With your packages, I would suggest scope of work versus pricing out hourly. It will be a benefit to your client and you. They will not penny pinch you if its an all inclusive package, rather than if you priced out individual elements separately. If they decide that they have the domain + hosting covered (re: setup), then your package price could still remain the same, as its an all inclusive package. You see?

I have separated my website design packages and my seo services. Some clients just want a site. Others realize the benefits of visibility and targeted traffic. My SEO services (or packages) would then be an add on, either after the site is done, or whilst building the site). Its up to the client.

You could also suggest 3 packages for your client to choose from - be it website design or seo.

Hope this helps.

bcc1234




msg:782002
 8:06 pm on Feb 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Plus there are indexes for pricing on the web.

He-he. Basic HTML - $112/hr. They must've never been to e-lance :)

Larger firms?
I remember we did a presentation for a legal firm with 850 attorneys (there aren't too many firms like that in the USA) in the begining of 2002.

You wouldn't believe what kind of sad things I've heard from their IT manager.

I also heard a lot of sad stuff while doing presentations to large advertising agencies.

LOL. $75/hr - still too high. There are just too many high school kids out there who claim to know it all (I'm not even talking about offshore). And there is no way to explain why you deserve to get the conrtact for $75/hr when someone else offers to do it for $25/hr.

Syren_Song




msg:782003
 8:27 pm on Feb 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Of course, if you don't charge enough, you'll end up in the poor house.

Even small businesses have operating expenses. Not to mention the fact that if you don't charge enough for your services, how are you going to support yourself during the lean times? Or while you're out trying to drum up business? Or while you're learning new skills to keep yourself current?

You need to find reasons to convince folks that your services are worth more than the 15-year-old kid who's got a copy of FrontPage that makes sites that won't view in Netscape because of proprietray coding. That you know more about search engine optimization that some kid who's never held a job beyond delivering pizza or newspapers. That you can protect a business site from being hacked by that same kids classmates.

When you're charging $50-75 per hour, there's a lot more going on than your client sees on the surface. You've got to be able to identify what those things are that will benefit the client and hammer on them until s/he understands that you're worth every penny s/he is paying you and more.

<edit>spelling and punctuation</edit>

[edited by: Syren_Song at 9:39 pm (utc) on Feb. 4, 2003]

stlouislouis




msg:782004
 9:24 pm on Feb 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi Bcc1234,

I'm, curious. What kinds of sad things are you referring to,
if you don't mind sharing what the IT guy talked about?

Prices paid folks for web related work?
Quality of work done?
And was it about recent stuff?
Do you think it applies to most businesses, or just law firms?

Thanks,

Louis

webwoman




msg:782005
 10:36 pm on Feb 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lasko,
I have found it most successful to charge what the market will bear in each prospective customer's reality. I think you will find that various businesses place different values on their websites/marketing. I have widely varying prices among several kinds of businesses, and as long as I ensure that I am not undercharging so grossly that I feel resentment while working on the site, I think this works. (Of course it would be good to keep your prices somewhat consistent among referrals who know each other:))

-webwoman

paragon




msg:782006
 11:00 pm on Feb 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

I agree to webwoman's comment about pricing what the market will bear. It also depends what market - the micro-business, the small business, the franchise, the fortune 1000+, etc. What each sector market will bear is different - and how one prices out services will actually reflect on the developer's qality.

This is of course, providing quality showcase work, genuine testimonials, professional presentations and agreements, professional value-added interactions over the phone, email or chat with a client. All impressions convey whether the client ought to pay you what you're asking for or question their decision to go to another developer.

I have no challenges with basement-creative types - heck, I'm one of them, but one is only as good as what one has created. So let the results do the talking. If the value that an SEO or developer adds to a client will profit the client 100-fold, then this developer can warrant a better fee strucutre. I have no challenges to 15 year olds or $25/hour creatives, but I do not bill out those amounts because:
1. How does one survive on $25/hour? And if my client compares my quality of services to a newbie, there would be a serious discussion about the client's real objectives <grin>

2. I don't bill out services per hour anyway; its typically per scope of work.

3. Because I resonate with Syren Song and not ending up in the poor house - I have a responsibility to gorw a profitable business, and support a family.

4. My package of services incl website development, seo, ppc, reporting, tracking, analysis, and practically provides a one-stop convenience for a client, that that alone saves them tons of time and integration headaches. (Of course, I don't do them all; that's the beauty of outsourcing)

and the list can go on forever...

bcc1234




msg:782007
 12:43 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm, curious. What kinds of sad things are you referring to,
if you don't mind sharing what the IT guy talked about?

He-he. Well, basically downsizing and cut-backs. In proportions I could not even imagine was possible :(

stlouislouis




msg:782008
 12:48 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi Bcc1234,

Was the downsizing in the legal area, the IT area or both?

It does seem the trend is to get rid of employees and either outsource or bring in temp/contractor help which does not require the payment of benefits or other employee related expenses like unemployment insurance or pension cost. I suspect such would be the case even if the economy were better.

Thanks and take care,

Louis

bcc1234




msg:782009
 1:47 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Was the downsizing in the legal area, the IT area or both?

Most of the business world considers IT nothing more than an annoying business expense, which in many cases does not show an immediate significant return. So that's usually the first thing to get slashed when the times get tough.
And since web-related stuff is considered a child's play of IT by everybody (even the rest of the IT industry) - that seems like the most reasonable thing to cut-down on.

I'll give you are few unrelated examples of the things I've heard on such meetings and presentations:

- Yeah... We use to have 12 people in my department, but now it's just me. When I need to fix some graphics - I get Photoshop. When one of our servers is having problems - I pick up a few books and try to find out what's wrong.... And it does not look like our department's budget will be increased to hire more help in the near future. We thought about outsourcing, but all projects (and all decisions) have been frozen for at least 6 months....

- Oh, we have servers in our facility, but we are cutting down and are more interested in finding good deals for virtual hosting to split licensing fees such as Windows 2000 Server, SQL Server, and Exchange Server with other companies...

- We do understand that secondary mail servers are important, but our budget has been frozen until next year's financial reports come in....

Those are all from IT managers of companies with multi-million dollar revenues :(

On another note, I would say that banking is one of the few industries that spend well on IT, and only because they absolutely have to.

Mardi_Gras




msg:782010
 3:20 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

And there is no way to explain why you deserve to get the conrtact for $75/hr when someone else offers to do it for $25/hr.

Because you are good? Because you have a proven track record of success? Because you have clients who will vouch for your ability to do the job? Because you can solve a problem in 25 minutes that might take a rookie 2 days? Because you can help the client make money? Because you have a proven portfolio sitting on the web for all to see?

Never sell professional services based on price - and don't let clients buy them that way.

bcc1234




msg:782011
 6:07 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Because you are good? Because you have a proven track record of success? Because you have clients who will vouch for your ability to do the job? Because you can solve a problem in 25 minutes that might take a rookie 2 days? Because you can help the client make money? Because you have a proven portfolio sitting on the web for all to see?

Sounds logical in theory :) Not so in reality...

lasko




msg:782012
 9:04 am on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks for all the input and ideas, However I am a long way
off before I could ever charge $75/hour For beginners like me who can produce a well written html website for 90% of web browsers and produce great results in search engines
it is very difficult to understand where to start in a price structure.

So many companies you can talk to will say they carn't give
a price we need to sit down and discuse everything you would require from a website.

For example I am supposed to give an estimate on a simple website for a local real estate business that has 200 properties to try and rent out. They are a small business
who have already a website that is very badly done and has no marketing at all.

They currently have it hosted by a local company but no webmaster to update it. What kind of charges would be acceptable for creating a simple layout with a little search engine optomizing and regular updates of the website.

:)

Mardi_Gras




msg:782013
 1:26 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sounds logical in theory :) Not so in reality...

The arguments I put forth in my earlier post are not theory - they are valid arguments we use on a routine basis to justify our charges.

The services we provide are expensive. Knowing how to sell them is part of being successful. You can be the best marketing firm in the country, but if you don't have the sales expertise to justify your rates, you won't have the financial success your skills might justify.

When a client says the objection is rate - I can almost guarantee you the objection is not rate. Keep probing and educating - the problem maybe that they don't yet understand enough to justify your rate. Or it may be something else all together. But if you're going to get what you deserve - you have to be able to overcome rate objections.

Syren_Song




msg:782014
 1:28 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

You need to think in terms of how many hours you're going to spend creating the new design, how long it's going to take up to convert all their pages into the new format, how much time is involved in submitting their site to how many search engines.

And don't forget to include the amount of time you have already spent and will spend discussing the new site and changes with the company. You're also going to need to include your time spent on optimization and those "little web updates" that could run into a lot more hours than you even begin to realize right now.

When you charge $75/hour, you're charging for a lot more than just the actual time you spend designing the site. You're charging for your overhead as well. No one is saying you have to charge $75, but you need to consider exactly how much time you'll be spending on the project and how much you want to make while you're doing "background" work that the client will never actually see.

Your client will only see the results of your efforts. That's what you're actually charging for - the RESULTS and what those results are worth to your client!

Mardi_Gras




msg:782015
 1:38 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

lasko - you have to start somewhere! Take a few things into consideration:

What is your time worth to you?

What will the project require of you (make sure you understand that part!)

Will there be some value to you in getting a nice site under your belt for your portfolio?

Do you need the work to pay the rent this month? That always justifies a lower rate...

Who else is likely to do the job and how much will they be charging per hour?

Getting a high rate is difficult when you don't have a proven track record of success. So why not start on the middle to lower end of the figures mentioned here, get the job, and get some experience.

Don't look to make a fortune on your first project but make certain that you don't lose money. That happens a lot, and it can result in you being unhappy, the client being unhappy, and the project being unfinished. None of those are good things ;)

Be sure to agree on when and how you will be paid, and stick to it. Collections is another part of being in business for yourself - make sure you don't set yourself up for any problems there.

vibgyor79




msg:782016
 2:14 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lasko: Finding out how much you need to charge your clients is quite simple. And it is scientific too - it is not just numbers taken out of thin air. I have been using this technique with great success for over 3 years now - never fails and is not restricted to any particular field of business.

- First register a domain name. Cost $10.

- Sign up for the cheapest available web hosting. Cost $2.95 per month.

- Upload a html file "Coming Soon: DomainName.com" with info@domainname.com as contact address.

- Carry out some research on your competitors. Make a list of their email address and phone numbers.

- Contact your competitors with a project offer. Make sure you have a good story in hand. In your case, explain that you would like a, say 30 page website for your "small furniture business". Ask them how much they would charge you. If possible, ask them to call you up so that you can have a full discussion on pricing (along with other matters).

- Contact atleast 10 of your competitors. This will give you an idea about pricing structure, pricing models etc.

This is what I call "Business Intelligence". And it hardly costs money. Steps 1, 2 and 3 are not necessary but they certainly give credibility to your "story".

Note: Don't ask about pricing as soon as you call up. Act natural - act like an interested "customer"

stlouislouis




msg:782017
 2:21 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi Bcc1234,

Thanks for sharing the info. It sure was....sobering....
as to the mindset out there!

Take care,

Louis

jamesa




msg:782018
 2:34 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

What the market will bear is one consideration, what YOU will bear should be another. You have to know your own minimum wage, below which it wouldn't even be worth it for you to take a job. Try this...

First, figure out how many billable hours you have available per week. Out of a 40 hour week, for example, you might really have only 24-30 billable hours because the rest of the time is spent on prospecting and other non-billable stuff.

Second, how much do you need to make this year just to pay your bills? How much extra would you like on top of that? Add it up and that's your desired annual income.

Finally, do the math. Let's say you have 25 billable hours per week available: 25 hours x 52 weeks = 1300 billable hours per year. Let's say you want to make $60,000 the first year: 60,000 / 1300 = $46.15. So to make $60k, you'd need to charge $46/hour, and that's assuming you can fill those 25 hours with billable work, week after week.

So to come up with a reasonable flat rate for a job, just estimate the number of hours you expect the job to take and multiply it by your hourly rate.

bcc1234




msg:782019
 9:17 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Keep probing and educating - the problem maybe that they don't yet understand enough to justify your rate.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm not in this business, so it's not a pissing contest :)

The arguments I put forth in my earlier post are not theory - they are valid arguments we use on a routine basis to justify our charges.
The services we provide are expensive. Knowing how to sell them is part of being successful.

You are right. BUT... You are not unique. You don't have a special know-how. There is not a SINGLE thing that you can do, but others can't.

I've heard (and said myself) those arguments many times. But many people fail to realize what I just stated above.

Sure, the market is flooded with incompetent "professionals", but there is also a large number of truly knowledgeable people and competent companies out there who would do anything for almost minimum wage.

I cannot stress this enough - you are not smarter than the rest of the industry. It's like a form of denial that many in this industry have.

When a client says the objection is rate - I can almost guarantee you the objection is not rate.

Belive it or not, I thought the same thing for many years :)

I'll give you an example of one of my current clients:

They have two servers at their locations.
One of the boxes has 4 CPUs and is able to handle around 800 client requests. They only need to handle around 50-60 at a time. They just don't need a box of that size, but they had no problem paying for it. But when they were asked to shell out $15k for a website - they laughed really hard.

Why? Cause they can get it done cheaper and they will get it done :)

What I'm doing now is moving their systems from Novell/FoxPro/SBT to FreeBSD/PostgreSQL/Java. The system carries all their transactions for the past decade or so.

How many people out there know how to write HTML, do some PHP and configure Apahe and MySQL?

How many people out there know Novell,FoxPro,SBT and other legacy stuff and at the same time FreeBSD,PostgreSQL, Java?

Fewer know latter than the former, wouldn't you agree?

Still, I'm NOT unique. I don't have a special know-how. There is not a single thing I know that others don't.

Why am I getting paid to do what I do? Because they need it. The company is losing money every time they do a transaction or set a bid.

What would their site gain them? Nothing!

As a matter of fact I had a conversation about the site a while back. Was something like this:
- Hey, you know some web designers, don't you?
- Sure.
- Will you be able to get them to do a site for us?
- Sure.

That's all.
And after I'm done with this project - I'll hook them up with a site for something like $1k cause that's how much it costs.

Why do I get paid?
Two things:
1) they REALLY need the solution
2) they must pay me for being loyal and not selling all their contacts, bids, and prices to their competitors.

Why would a web designer get paid?
Hmm...
- To expain their reach?
- To attract more business?
- To provide the company with a solid web representation that fits their image?

LOL. Do you realize how .com-ish this sounds to a brick and mortar businessman?

I'm sure you are a good specialist and I do not mean to offend anybody, but trust me, it's much easier to judge things clearly while looking at it from the side.

Check this site in my profile.
Guess how much I paid for the design? $250 :)
And I'll pay another $1k to update the logo and fix up the menus and write a nice copy. Once I have some free time.

Anyway, good luck with your business, but make sure you are not in denial regarding your abilities, because that will kill you eventually :)

Mardi_Gras




msg:782020
 9:33 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

Interesting philosphy. I think I like mine better.

Syren_Song




msg:782021
 10:01 pm on Feb 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

lasko -

Remember that you won't be able to sell yourself to everyone. There will always be people out there who think they can get what you do for less. And in some cases they may be right. In other cases, those people will get exactly what they paid for.

In a year or two of them surviving with their current "less expensive" site, they'll recognize that they could be doing much better with their online sales.

If you keep in touch with them periodically, it may be you that they come to for a site redesign. :)

Undead Hunter




msg:782022
 5:01 pm on Feb 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lasko:

I agree with Jamesa's breakdown on cost, definitely the right track, and there are two bits I'd add to it:

1) It's more generous to assume that only 3 of every 8 hours worked will be billable when you're a single owner. Yes, you'll get some contracts that will last 6 weeks straight (or whatever), but by the time you count in the down days, invoicing time, start-up time, answering email, routing through problems, etc. you'll find it goes down significantly. Not to mention vacation time... And look at it this way, if you can find work and automate your processes so you can bill for 5 out of every 8 hours worked, you deserve the extra money from setting your rate based on 3 instead of 5.

2) If you want to make $60k, you really need to earn more like $90k - 120k or more depending on your expenses. More if you're paying into health plans, insurance, etc. Remember, every month you need a place to work (rent), phones, software, 'net access, paper and printer ink, good clothes for meetings, transportation to get there, and on and on. That's just bare-bones: Then there's training costs (whether you're self-taught or not), lost money on late invoices or on your billing cycle if its too long, and so on and so on.

Brenner Books has a great book on setting prices for web site design, and ways to run your office. I recommend it - although I'd up their estimates somewhat on costs based on the B2Bonline rates listed early in this discussion.

Undead Hunter




msg:782023
 5:42 pm on Feb 6, 2003 (gmt 0)


BCC123:

<I>I'm sure you are a good specialist and I do not mean to offend anybody, but trust me, it's much easier to judge things clearly while looking at it from the side. </I>

Well, you clearly see and believe the negative arguments, anyway.

I felt the same way as you and your clients do about *surround sound stereos*. We bought the cheapest one we could find a few years back. And it did the job it needed to do - certainly no more. Or at least we thought it did. It was better than the sound out of our TV.

But once I took the time to learn about them and experience what's really high-end, I see why we could have spent at least 10x more to buy a really good system.

BUT its a moot argument - 'cause I couldn't afford that back then. So we've made due. Like you and your clients will.

And like me with the stereo, its *not* up to any of us to convince you or your clients of our worth. There's too damn many people out there who do recognize it, and we can't get to them all as it is.

Lasko - that's my advice. Listen to BCC's arguments well, recognize them as soon as you hear them, run the other way. Textbook example of the type of client who you can't & don't want to work for. Thanks for posting it, BCC.

<I>Check this site in my profile.
Guess how much I paid for the design? $250 :) </I>

I have bad news for you: you can buy a newer, fresher, hipper, more appropriate template than the one on your site for $24.99 US. No joke, its all about knowing what to look for and where to look. "Man you got ripped off" ;)

My point is web design is alot more about coding and graphics. And there's always, always, always someone who will do it cheaper. If you spend $250, I can spend $25, and then there's some high school kid or first-time willing to do it for free.

Cheaper is not better - unless you're broke, or completely ignorant of what you need. In which case you take what you get, and couldn't/wouldn't be considering a serious professional firm anyway.

<I>Anyway, good luck with your business, but make sure you are not in denial regarding your abilities, because that will kill you eventually :)</I>

To Lasko again, yes don't deny your abilities - don't deny you have to make at least $60 - $80 an hour if you're running your own office, working alone, and want to make *at least* as much *after expenses* as you would in the workforce.

And don't believe me: Do the math yourself.

"The truth will set your fee." :)

Syren_Song




msg:782024
 5:58 pm on Feb 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Wonderful post, UndeadHunter!

I couldn't have said it any better no matter how hard I tried!

The truth will set your fee.

I like that part especially! :)

webwoman




msg:782025
 6:08 pm on Feb 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lasko,

If you are able to find out what the real estate company thinks is their budget for this service, you can then decide if it would be viable to do the work. I work only on small companies websites (design and seo) Often, they do not understand or value the service until they have experienced the results of it. I had a client who left me cuz he thought he found seo much cheaper than I was charging, then came back 6 months later and is now happy to pay my fees. I have also been able to sell him additional services because he has had some good success with the seo I have done for him. I think when you are dealing with small companies who do not necessarily know or value web marketing, it's a combination of what their budget will bear and educating them as you get results. If you want to sticky me, I'll send you my range of prices, but I am in LA, so my fees may be inconsistent with what you can get wherever you may be... :)

bcc1234




msg:782026
 6:43 pm on Feb 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Undead Hunter, great post, but you missed a few points.

There are 3 kinds of companies out there: small business, mid-size companies, and the fortune listings.

The first ones simmply cannot afford to pay the price.
The second ones don't have the immediate need.
And the last ones, well it's really hard to reach the big boys :) Most of them have policies regarding vendor and service providers approvals, and that's before you can even start explaining your positon in the market.

Most of my experience is with mid-size companies.
Those are the ones that CAN afford it, but...
Phase 1: we don't really need it
Phase 2: CEO's nephew took some front page classes and talked his uncle into making a corporate site for his company
Phase 3: the friends of that CEO actually told him about how much his site sucks and he start thinking about it
Phase 4: CEO is now convinced that the site needs to be re-done, but he just does not have time to deal with it and he passes it to someone else, like an IT manager
Phase 5: the company has a nice site

Phases 1,2,3 - don't even bother (and that's like 50% of companies out there). The best thing is to wait a few more years.

Phase 4 - an IT manager (and the rest of the IT staff) do not want or need the site. They are busy patching Exchange server and explaining the receptionists that they should not click on the icons in emails with subjects like "Here is a funny program for you".
So the IT manager has two choices:
1) take charge of this project
2) let it be and hope for the best

1 is bad for you - he is going to be a pain in the ass all the way. It's also bad for him cause he is already way too busy. After all, his salary is not going to increase just cause the company now has a better site.

2 is good for you, but the IT manager won't likely to let somebody step on his turf. He does not want to be involved, but he can't ignore this project either.

Phase 5 - well, why are you still wasting your time with a company that already has a nice site.

Things get a bit more fun if in Phase 4, you substitute the IT manager with a marketing director.

After that, all your clever explanations go up and down the chain:

you -> IT manager/marketing director -> CFO <-> CEO -> partners/owners/board -> CEO <-> CFO -> IT manager/marketing director -> you

Now, you do know a story about a hundred people telling something to each-other in one gigantic chain, don't you? :)

Well, in this chan, besides the natural premutations of your sales pitch, every member of the chain has his own little agenda. And most of the agendas, don't include you in any way of form :)

Undead Hunter




msg:782027
 8:04 pm on Feb 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi BCC:

you -> IT manager/marketing director -> CFO <-> CEO -> partners/owners/board -> CEO <-> CFO -> IT manager/marketing director -> you

Now, you do know a story about a hundred people telling something to each-other in one gigantic chain, don't you? :)

Well, in this chan, besides the natural premutations of your sales pitch, every member of the chain has his own little agenda. And most of the agendas, don't include you in any way of form :)

... yes, its incredibly important to make the company choose people who will be primarily responsible for gaining internal consensus. It's also really important to set the scope of the project before you start, in case things go up and down the line. It's actually best to talk briefly to all the people who need to be in on the chain. May not always be feasible - but "use at your own risk" if you don't.

We always stipulate that "one person will be responsible for all internal approvals" regarding the site. And as I always tell clients, "these things aren't made of stone: if a better idea comes along that could prove more profitable, we'll alter it later. But we can already see how this initial idea will work: let's let it have its day first."

Also: when you've set hard goals/reasons for doing what you're doing on the site, you're arming your internal person with them. So when the CFO comes down with a "great idea" or wants to cut costs, the internal person shows them the how and why of what's happening. End of discussion, end of agenda... at least as far as the website is concerned. :)They can find something else to haggle on internally.

lasko




msg:782028
 9:04 pm on Feb 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well their are many ways of looking on what and how to charge, and one thing I have noticed that some site owners
would just like you to SEO their first page.

Is this a good practice for a service that won't cost the company a fortune and they may be interested in expanding the SEO.

How can you put a price on SEO do you calculate by keyword,
by the hour or by the competition?

Their has been many issues about contracts etc on making sure you protect yourself.

Some company wants me to SEO their index.htm but are not happy about me working on the whole site. Within 12 months I have created a website myself with 18,500 unique users per month all this from 0 advertising budget.

I can only offer this kind of result if I have total control of a website which I am sure everyone will agree.

However their could be some business from SEO the index.htm
for other webmasters etc. Any thoughts?

jbauder




msg:782029
 12:47 am on Feb 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

lasko,

you just hit on your niche, focus on the seo not on making websites, if you are reasonably certain of your skills for getting a site near the top of google on the right keywords, that is a skill worth $75 per hour (though that probably isn't how you would charge ...

your sales pitch has to focus on making prospective clients understand that having a site on the net in itself won't make them a dime ... without search engine listings and traffic no one will see it

state right up front ... that sure they will find others who will make the site cheaper but they need to get specific examples of where sites rank at the major search engines when they are done

This 38 message thread spans 2 pages: 38 ( [1] 2 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / WebmasterWorld / Professional Webmaster Business Issues
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved