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This 35 message thread spans 2 pages: 35 ( [1] 2 > >     
UK Hosting Company Blues
Prime Site Down For 72 Hours - Escape Route???
Napoleon




msg:792827
 11:19 am on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Some of you guys must have been here before....

I have a web site hosted by a cheap provider in the UK. They registered the domain name for me and it is a '.co.uk', sadly.

The site itself gradually became more important... unexpected, as I would have hosted at a bigger place if I had predicted this.

Problem is, they got hit by a virus 4 days ago. They decided to rebuild the server. They promised the site would be back yesterday.

Guess what... it's wasn't.

They also originally promised to stick the site on a different server, after I explained the pain this is causing in terms of financial loss. They haven't.

Worse still, they ignored all my emails yesterday. They have ignored me today. And no, I don't have a phone number (nothing on their site, which of course is up).

I want out, fast. I called Nominet who tell me I have to fax them but it will be "quite a few days". Nominet would also have to contact the Webhoster... and who is to say they would respond?

Essentially... has anyone any experience of this sort of situation? Any short cut or quick way out of here to get the site online ASAP?

I'm frustrated, angry and am losing money. Any suggestions welcome!!!

 

DaveN




msg:792828
 11:29 am on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Will they repoint the DNS or release the domain for you ?

and

Do you have a back-up of the site ?

DaveN

Napoleon




msg:792829
 11:47 am on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

>> Will they repoint the DNS or release the domain for you ? <<

I can't even contact them to find out. The domain is owned by me, but I have no control over it at this point.

>> Do you have a back-up of the site ? <<

Yes.

To be honest I feel sick about this. I feel abused by the ISP. I can accept that problems occur, but cannot accept that they have any right to ignore costomers when they are wreaking havoc.

If they can't sort the problem pronto (and they CAN, because their other servers are up) they should at least say so, and give me control of my own domain.

I have no idea what to do at this juncture.

engine




msg:792830
 11:53 am on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm sorry to hear those problems.

It sounds to me if the damage has already been done if the site has been down that long.

Plan to migrate the site to another service provider immediately.

In the meantime, my recommendation would be to get the site back up and running with a new domain name on a new provider in the first instance. At least you will be able to point to a working website.

Transfering the main domain out as soon as you can do so will be high on my list, however, you will experience some delays, typically 24 to 48-hours if things go smoothly. The existing isp needs to release the domain (detag), which they should do as long as they have confirmation you wish to do so.
Once released, the new isp can pick up the domain, but, you'll have to stay on it and watch for the name to become detagged. A good isp will do this without too much hassle, but, keep an eye on it yourself.

Unforftunately, I'd suggest it is damage a damage limitation exercise right now.

Napoleon




msg:792831
 12:07 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thanks for that.... I will go through the laborious process as described... no choice.

In the immediate term, I had another brain wave. I called one of the magazines in which they advertise... surely they must have a number.

The lady there was actually very sympathetic. She couldn't hand the number over (apparently they have a home number) but has now rang them directly herself. No response.

She has had to go to a meeting, but has given the task to one of her staff who will recall every 30 minutes.

I just hope they get through, because the ISP may well jump for a major mag, as opposed to presenting the brick wall I am encountering.

brotherhood of LAN




msg:792832
 12:20 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Napoleon, could you please sticky me the name of the ISP?

Im going to build a list of all the ISP's and tech support staff I have a grudge against ;)

my one seems to mess 2 things up every time I ask him to fix one thing. Im thinking about contacting his superiors in the hope its not a one man show ;)

Try getting a phone # for them, people are much more defenseless over a phone ;)

Richard

backus




msg:792833
 12:26 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Better still, get a snail-mail address and send them a nasty letter. CC the letter to your lawyer.

chris_f




msg:792834
 12:34 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Napoleon can you please sticky me your ISP name. I am in a similar boat and believe we my have the same ISP. If we do, I may be able to help.

Napoleon




msg:792835
 12:45 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

I've emailed it Chris.

Call me Sherlock Holmes... I used webarchive.org to search old generations of their website for a number.

I found one for their 'operations center'. They told me the ISO resided in the building but they didn't have a number. Jeez.

The other number on there... 'accounts''' just rings out (it's an 0870).

Still waiting on the magazine.

backus




msg:792836
 12:54 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Napoleon, send me the name of the company, I'll search for it on Companies House register.

Napoleon




msg:792837
 1:01 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Stickied to you as well Backus.

Still nothing from the mag....

Anyone based in Swansea? I think that's where they are based.

engine




msg:792838
 1:09 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Keep all specifics off the board chaps, thanks.

Napoleon, sticky-mail me the isp details you have.

backus




msg:792839
 1:15 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Got it for you, sent the address to your sticky mail. Let me know how you get on, mate.

Napoleon




msg:792840
 1:21 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Backus... great stuff.... thanks. I'm chasing the 192 now.

Interesting that the registered address is different to the on eon their website.

Napoleon




msg:792841
 1:23 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Oh dear.... 192.... report nothing listed under the name of the host!!!

What sort of organization am I dealing with?

backus




msg:792842
 1:29 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Mate, I think you should contact the DTI and Trading Standards ASAP!!! Sounds like you are dealing with crooks here. Also, I might want to suggest the BBC do a new episode of "Uk's worst" - "UK's worst hosting!"

Napoleon




msg:792843
 1:33 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm beginning to feel it's that way. The magazine has obviously had no joy yet either... although they do have an indivdual's name.

DaveN




msg:792844
 1:39 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Napoleon
if D.O.S has been over 72 hours you can complain to nominet directly and force them to release the domain to another TAG Holder

But only the registrant can do this!!!

I have domain name servers and i am Nominet Tag Holder so in the short term you can park your domain here FOC.

Sticky me if you want.

DaveN

Napoleon




msg:792845
 1:42 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Dave... appreciated.. Any idea how long Nominet would take to do that? A day? A week?

The DOS is over 72 hours.

DaveN




msg:792846
 1:44 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Not to sure but

Ring them 01865 332211

at least they should have a contact number

DaveN

DaveN




msg:792847
 1:48 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

would sticky me the isp.

DaveN

Crazy_Fool




msg:792848
 1:51 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>To be honest I feel sick about this. I feel abused by the
>>ISP. I can accept that problems occur, but cannot accept
>>that they have any right to ignore costomers when they
>>are wreaking havoc.

i fully sympathise with you having suffered this myself. i can also sympathise with the web hosting company - they could have dozens, hundreds or even thousands of customers in the same boat as you, all wanting their sites back online IMMEDIATELY.

i doubt they are ignoring you because they don't care - they will feel just as sick as you, maybe more so. it's their server that's down and it's going to cost them a lot of business. they know what's coming - complaints to trading standards, letters from lawyers, maybe a damning magazine article and so on. a DDOS attack on a well known hosting company earlier this year caused that company so many problems they ceased trading.

when something goes wrong with a server, the web hosting company gets loads of complaints in at once - do they sit there answering the phone all day or do they fix the problem? web hosting these days is so cheap that most web hosts can't afford to do both. angry customers shouting at them down the phone doesn't do anything to encourage them to fix the problems. i don't blame them for hiding phone numbers.

my advice - give them a chance to get the server sorted out and THEN make your complaints. get your domain transferred to a provider that gives you DNS control totally separate from your web hosting company - then next time something goes wrong, you can make the move yourself.

backus




msg:792849
 1:58 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

In one aspect you're right, but the fact of the matter is that this company seems shady. It is registered in Scotland, it doesn't have a 192 listing, doesn't broadcast phone numbers etc. I wouldn't trust that company again. They should at least send a general email explaining how long it will take etc.

Napoleon




msg:792850
 2:10 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

It gets worse.

Just spoke to Nominet who confirm the process to extract the domain is SLOOWWW. This is regardless of how outrageous the 'Tag Holder' (the host) is.

Further... the email address that Nominet gave me for them has just bounced!!! Also, the telephone number Nominet gave me just rings through, without answer.

It seems the UK domain name system puts all power in the hands of the host... and no matter how outrageously they behave, the domain owner cannot extract it without the hosts permission... at least extract it in the short term.

What a pathetic system... I've bought my last .co.uk

In the meantime, I have found reference that the host (call them XYZ Ltd) seems to be owned by XYZ Corporation Ltd. A company owned by a company. This gets more convoluted.

hayluke




msg:792851
 2:30 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

I surprised you had problems with Nominet. I've always found them to be really helpful and good to deal with. I've had many more problems dealing with non-uk domains..

I found in the past the quickest way to get one transferred was to fax nominet on headed paper (if appropriate) to 01865 332299.

Good luck!

Napoleon




msg:792852
 2:33 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

The guy was actually sympathetc, but he could only work within his procedures... no chance of transfer until next week... at the earliest.

The only quicker route is for the offending host to change the DNS... or get the server back up.

Crazy_Fool




msg:792853
 2:50 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>It seems the UK domain name system puts all power in the hands of the host...

no, all power is in the hands of the registrant - you just need to make sure that you retain DNS control over the domain.

to transfer a domain to a new registrar, get the IPS tag of the new registrar and send a fax on headed paper to Nominet. they will change the IPS tag. your new host will then need to change nameserver details for you.

i've sent you a sticky with a couple of companies that will let you transfer your domain name to them and give you full DNS control of your domain.

Napoleon




msg:792854
 3:25 pm on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Cheers.... no joy whatsoever with the bogus host.... I'll sort a fax out today.

Napoleon




msg:792855
 9:04 am on May 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

An update on this... bleak.

I faxed Nominet yesterday requesting chage of 'Tag Holder' from the bogus ISP to a new one (one recommended by Crazy_Fool).

This morning I rang Nominet. "We have a backlog of faxes and are currently working through those received on 2nd May. We may get to yours next week",

Ridiculous. Lesson for everyone here I guess... buy a '.co.uk' through and ISP, and if they do a runner, you are high and dry. Despite the fact that you OWN the domain, you are powerless to point it elsewhere, at least in the short term.

I explained how the media had tried to contact the ISP, offered to send them all my emails, told them how dire the losses would be...etc... to no avail. They simply do as they are told, and they are told to go through the faxes in date order, whetever the consequences for the domain owners.

Nominet are therefore totally useless in terms of help. Incompetence springs to mind, but the truth is probably that the UK system itself was put together like so many UK systems.. to build an unecessary layer of hierarchy and privilege. That's certainly how it seems at this juncture.

The internet magazine have also had no joy. They have tried to contact them a number of times through all normal communication channels. No response.

This has proven very costly, but there lessons. The first is that I will never buy a '.co.uk' again. Yes, there are routes that give more control than this, but I simply have no confidence in the overall body (Nominet).

Another lesson is to ensure that the hosting company is well known, contactable, has a good reputation, and can be pinned down.

I knew this already... but when I set up this domain it was never intended to be important. It just grew. Thus lesson 3... monitor domains and switch to trusted hosts if necessary.

In terms of the bogus host... still no contact and the site is still down.

Crazy_Fool




msg:792856
 9:24 am on May 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>Nominet are therefore totally useless in terms of help.
>>Incompetence springs to mind, but the truth is probably
>>that the UK system itself was put together like so many
>>UK systems.. to build an unecessary layer of hierarchy
>>and privilege.

the nominet system isn't perfect, but neither is the system for gTLDs - have you ever tried to move a domain name from network solutions?

you should always retain DNS control of your domains, whether .com or .co.uk. this gives you the fredom to move your domains at any time you want.

This 35 message thread spans 2 pages: 35 ( [1] 2 > >
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