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Datacenter Watch: 2006-07-04
funandgames

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 6:18 pm on Jul 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

< continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

In doing searches for topics that I am interested in, but unrelated to my sites, I have noticed it takes longer to find good pages. Just a year or so ago, I could find four to eight good web pages on the first page. Now, sometimes I find one or none on the first page. Some keyword phrases are so bad they have been literally crippled to search with.

This is not really Google's fault. The web is just getting littered with all kinds of 'high tech' tricky stuff to make web sites easily and get traffic quickly. I assume this is to make a quick buck. A real driving force is the fact that people can put pay-per-click ads on their very own sites for free. These types of ads, such as Google's own Adsense is a great idea, but there is bound to be a downside to every new thing.

I am sure Google is trying hard to fix these problems because I am seeing different results every few weeks or so for the same search phrases. The phrases I check the most are ones that bring my own web sites up on the first page. This way I can tell how much of my traffic is coming from the search engines.

Luckily my web sites rank pretty much the same, but the other sites that are ranked above and below mine keep changing. Some sites that are ranked near mine help my traffic while others don't. It seems that since there are so many 'trick' sites showing up, that it can be good for you to be next to one. People will notice it is crappy and then visit yours and realize it is better and bookmark it and come back again later.

With the amount of web pages growing fast and the amount of 'quick buck' folks showing up, this situation can only get harder for Google to handle, but imaging having a slew of crap pages all around your listing? Your quality listing will show up very well and your will get higher quality traffic and possibly more of it.

Google is looking into a way to 'register' your domains with them and give you an ever growing 'boost' in ranking for registering as the system grows and matures. The 'bad folks' can then easily be tracked and removed for breaking ethical rules in web design to cheat their way to the top. If these pesky folks decide not to register to 'hide' from Google, then there rankings will start to suffer as legit registered sites get ranked higher. It is like a hybrid of a search engine and a directory.

As for these latest changes. Lots of movement has taken place. My site is the only one that hasn&#8217;t moved on this update. Every other site has moved and a few new ones added. It saddens me to see that a few 'quick buck' sites are now on the same page as mine. But, like I mentioned above, this isn't always a bad thing. I wont be able to tell if it helps my site for a week or so. Sometimes these neighbors of mine can have a huge impact on my traffic from the Google search pages!

Another thing that I have noticed over the past few years is that more and more of the best quality traffic to my sites comes from links on other sites. Google's search pages only provide about 15% of the income earning traffic to my sites. If you 'lose' a ranking on the Google pages, that may not affect your income at all. Get links from other sites similar to yours and watch your quality traffic grow. Trust me it works. I have been doing it for years. People have even said that if you get links Google will actually place your pages higher on theirs! A double bonus in my book!

Besides those links from other sites, add two or three pages per day with information about your topic. These pages will get indexed very fast and other sites will link to the pages. Make sure people can get to the main part of your site from each new page you make. I have read in this forum that adding new pages not only brings links, but once again, Google will move your site above the others just for adding new pages all the time. You don&#8217;t need to add more then two or three a day though. If you run out of subjects start to branch out. Don't write anything boring. People will leave and will forget about the site and wont link to it. Boring things include sales tactics or repeating the same thing over.

On bad thing about making the site with article pages is that you will get TONS of email from sites trying to swap links! It is a royal pain and you should prepare for it. Ironically, most of these people write web sites that try to make a quick buck! (See Above) Someone said that linking to some of these sites will get you ignored by Google! Do not answer these emails and do not swap links! Don't let these bad guys stop you from adding to your site. Also be ready for bad guys that want to buy links from you. Google might ignore you if you link to them. I am not sure if Google is trying to keep these crappy sites from getting links, but the less they have, the less people that will visit them and they will give up an go away! We can only hope.

In the time some of us spend checking the Google data servers, we could have written one good article on our very own site.

Good luck with your web site...

[edited by: tedster at 1:57 am (utc) on July 7, 2006]

 

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 10:10 pm on Jul 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Now someone tell me Google have improved the serps since the roll out of big daddy"

Okay, I will. I can't see how anyone can make the case that the serps are not dramatically better. The results on the datacenters are not very good, but the results on google.com are for the most part great.

They do need to relist and rerank properly somewhere between five and 25% of the sites on the Internet, but aside from that (which is mostly still just because their database is corrupted with inept supplemental data) the vast majority of sites listed deserve their approximate listing. Only a couple types of spammy garbage is "working".

If Google were top flush the supplementals completely, without resurrecting a lot of garbage, this should free up the good sites stupidly lost, and lead to even better results.

Every datacenter shows fairly weak results, so it's amazingly out of character that the far superior comcast results first seen last month actually have become the dominant result set. That may bode ill for the future, but then again it may be a sign of better things to come.

G_Smitty

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 1:38 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

The results on the datacenters are not very good, but the results on google.com are for the most part great.

My case is that in my sector many of the top sites have been replaced by directories, spam sites and affiliate sites. How is that great?

JoeHouse

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 2:12 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

This is getting crazy....I just realized google updated my site links. Nearly doubled in links The weird part is that it is showing url strings from an older format (cold fusion) which I have not had in over nine months.

How is this possible?

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 5:40 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

steveb

"Okay, I will. I can't see how anyone can make the case that the serps are not dramatically better. The results on the datacenters are not very good, but the results on google.com are for the most part great. "

Are you talking about the sector(s) you watch, or are you issuing here a general assessment for all sectors?

colin_h



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 6:30 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

I see that Matt Cutts is back and seems to be just as out of touch as ever. Reading through his "Reminder: Check your Sites" section, it seems the recent results are my fault and not that of Google ... Surprise, Surprise!

All the Best

Col :-)

tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 6:36 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

with the amount of postings on the 27th please don't tell me he's just going to push this under the rug!

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 6:49 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

Good morning tigger

"with the amount of postings on the 27th please don't tell me he's just going to push this under the rug!"

Guess he has already done that :-)

M3Guy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 8:16 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

Looks like he's avoiding the subject altogether seeing as he's been asked direct questions about what happened on the 27th and has simply commented on something else instead.

Nice job...........

Hissingsid

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 9:27 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi,

When I go directly to the DCs that show garbage in McNameless eg [64.233.161.147...] from the UK, I see the same good results for some terms that I see on [64.233.171.99...]

The garbage seems to be filtered out for location UK. Knowing what I do about the terms in question this may be because of semantics (pure speculation!). The reason I say this is because, post Florida, we identified a problem with the use of an American English thesaurus in the semantics algo. The term includes a word which has an entirely different meaning this side of the Atlantic.

For a different term which has broadly the same meaning in the US and UK the results are garbage on both of the DCs identified above. 5 of the top 10 pages listed are from scraper, afiliate, no useful content directory sites.

For this term:

If I go to [google.com...] ( [216.239.59.*...] ) I get garbage.

If I go to [google.co.uk...] and do not use the "pages from the UK" button I get reasonable results (this is the same DC [216.239.59.*...] ) but if I use the "pages from the UK" button I get somewhat less good results.

My assessment of good, garbage, less good is based on the number and position of the scraper, afiliate, no useful content directory sites versus the real content kind of sites someone who used that term would actually want to visit kind of sites/pages.

Sid

[edited by: engine at 3:43 pm (utc) on July 7, 2006]

RichTC

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 10:15 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

"semantics"

I believe this is the route cause of a number of problems and imo why the serps are a mess. I could give zillions of examples like:-

Plaster-Building Material for walls etc
Plaster-First Aid Product
Plaster-A seattle based Rock Band
Plaster-Ingestion medical complaint

By Google trying to push this issue you get in a number of cases serps results that are not even remotely relevent to the search string OR you get good quality authority sites about the search string diluted with garbage thats should not be listed.

djmick200

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 11:14 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

"with the amount of postings on the 27th please don't tell me he's just going to push this under the rug!"

Guess he has already done that :-)

Looks like he's avoiding the subject altogether seeing as he's been asked direct questions about what happened on the 27th and has simply commented on something else instead.
Nice job...........


Same thing happened last Sept 22. Loads of threads and posts and not a word. It took until Oct 17 for this snippet "After that, some people might have noticed some changes around Sept. 22"
[mattcutts.com...]

I dont understand why they cant acknowledge it even if no further comment can be made at the current time.

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 11:45 am on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

djmick200

"I dont understand why they cant acknowledge it even if no further comment can be made at the current time."

Matt is a nice a guy, but I guess he is not allowed to say much about 27th. Instead he is entertaining his audience with some old stuff. You might call it blog recycling :-)

cleanup

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 12:09 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Same thing happened last Sept 22. "

"I dont understand why they cant acknowledge it even if no further comment can be made at the current time. "

Yes, here here to that.

Matt may be a "nice guy" although to be honest I could care less about his personal qualities, what is pathetic is Googles complete patronization of webmasters and our problems.

We are all grown ups you know Google (mostly anyway) we can take the truth even if it is that you just don't want to tell us anything!

tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 12:15 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

>You might call it blog recycling

I'm sorry Reseller I class it as annoying

300m

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 1:07 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think Matt will say something eventually, but I am a firm beleiver that Matt really focuses on spam. He has hinted in the past on his blog, and also on some podcasts that there is an index team. I really think more and more that Matt is not really invloved with the index team as much as we may want him to be. Thats not to say he has never been helpful, but it is a different department.

I am by no strecth a "cuttlett", but I really think he deserves a little slack.

Where has Adam Lanski been? Maybe that is the person that should be posting something, or giving a weather report.

Personally, i think that Google's image would be much better if every department had a blog that discussed what they do and how their changes may or may not be affecting serps.

gcc_llc

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 1:30 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

Focus on spam?

He might want to check out some of the more popular spam domains because at last count one has grown by 300k overnight.

But don't try to post that on his blog, it will get deleted.

Seems MC doens't really want to hear about the true spam issue. He just wants to talk about apache rewrites.

300m

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 2:25 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

I know how you feel, but if there is a different department that handles index refreshes that would tell me that they would be the first to identify the problem and then the spam team would follow up with the concequent complaints.

I am in the same boat as everyone else, I have watched my sites get bumped in and out of the serps drastically since last year, but i can't expect it to be stable all of the time anymore until these data refreshes are worked out. Matt has touched base on the data refreshes, but he has pointed out that it was unrelated to big daddy.

With that said, there is little to no talk about them. So i can only conclude that Matt is aware of the data refreshes, but has little to say about them.

It would also make sense to me that there has not been any named update since Jagger. (big daddy was an infastructure change).

Beleive me, I am in the same WH boat that everyone else is, but I think that this issue really lies upon the data refreshes. Just my 2 cents :)

gcc_llc

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 3:08 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

The key word there is "if".

Nobody knows because they never talk and what they said is vague and useless unless you want to take a guess at reading between the lines.

Its really a joke at this point. Getting information from MC and google is harder than getting answers out of the Bush administration.

I understand that we really can't do anything about it but they continue to piss more people off every day.

Now you have these humps talking about html compliance when they don't even understand that google's own homepage isn't compliant.

Instigator

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 7:01 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

Anyway.. I'm now seeing, "Copra", for the first time on 66.249.93.104 which is the DC that I see most often on google.co.uk

djmick200

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 7:58 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

Reseller i wasnt saying matt wasnt a nice guy or unhelpful. if it wasnt for his Boston Pubcon 2006 contact email one of my sites would still have been floating around in limbo. im sure whoever looked at it opened the door to G to have it fully indexed again.

I just meant "they" being google, and last sept matt was the only "real" person from google that webmasters could talk to.

now adam is around too, he could have made a comment on it and by comment all i mean is "we pushed some buttons but at this time that is ALL i can tell you".

they'd be giving away nothing but at least webmasters would know for certain changes have or are taking place.

i just think they could do better on that front - a lot better. not as if they cant afford 1 more employee - lol.

anyway sorry to have deviated from DC watching :-)

cabbie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 8:19 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

Matt, focusing on spam!?Give me a break.He is google's main pr man.He is doing too many other things to be focussed on spam.
As head of the spam department, Inigo should fall on his sword and retire gracefully.

300m

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 9:12 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Matt, focusing on spam!? Give me a break."
I never said that was Google's top priority, but yes that is his job i think.

"He is google's main pr man.He is doing too many other things to be focussed on spam."

He is not the main PR man. He was on vacation, but as a department head for spam, he should have a team the can work seamlessly regardless if he is there or not.

I am not trying to defend him at all, i am only trying to say that he is the spam guy and while he does more than likely have a great influence within Google, there are different departments that handle different tasks and that in the way i see it, many people like to come down on Matt about stuff, when the problem is indexing issues which he is not part of.

I think that its kind of like going over to a department store for a hammer and asking people over in the clothing department what the best hammer is they offer.

However, i do beleive that spam is a problem on various keywords i watch, but i dont think that it an issue of spam at this point, i think that the index is pushed and it gets wacky for a while.

hermannen

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 10:15 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

This update is definitely a mistake. Results in Belgium and Netherlands show up literally tons of spam sites in the top - 10 results.
Two of my colleagues asked this week for an alternative to the Google search machine..
I suppose and old pre-anti-spam database has been linked for some reason, and things will be back to normal soon?

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 10:39 pm on Jul 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

300m

"I think that its kind of like going over to a department store for a hammer and asking people over in the clothing department what the best hammer is they offer. "

I like your above lines. Couldn't find better to describe the serps on the following DCs for the sector I watch :-)

216.239.59.99
66.102.11.99
66.102.9.99

fivehills

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 4:16 am on Jul 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've found that my site has lost rankings on all but one datacenter: 64.233.189.104

Has anyone found the same?

EDIT: I've just discovered my pre June 27th rankings on another datacenter: 66.249.89.104

So can anyone let me know if this is hopeful or these two datacenters just haven't been changed over yet?

peter andreas

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 7:03 am on Jul 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

For us this is just like Jagger about a year algo (wasn't it?) I see similar sites doing well while we languish. I remember before they said yes its an update (and called it Jagger) there were posters protesting something was going on but nobody would acknowledge one was taking place. Well this looks like the pre shocks before a big earthquake.
Time will tell but last time after much anxiety we returned slightly better tahn before.

ScottD

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 10:35 am on Jul 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

As of today the SERPs are looking very different for me. I'm particularly interested in the June 27th issue, which tedster has sent over here to put to bed, and I wonder if it has been put to bed to some extent today?

Yesterday various people talked about this DC [64.233.189.107...] showing results for the site:mysite.com search more or less as they should be.

When I looked at that DC yesterday I saw about 1/10th the number of pages listed for our site, but it was a correct amount, in that it listed the all pages and not the permutations that sometimes exist (eg extra variables on the URL like?date=27june)

It also showed more pages without clicking the "repeat the search with the omitted results included" link than we had previously had listed.

So I was pretty happy with the results and so were all those who saw the home page in pole position again with the site: search

Today that is more or less what I am seeing on Google by default. Not sure what DC I have, but I checked the above one again, and it looks the same.

So - for those who were suffering from the 27th Site: search shinanigans - are you fixed? I hope for you all that you are.

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 10:37 am on Jul 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Scott

That DC looks pretty much by itself still IMO - perhaps you are just accessing it from Google.com at the moment?

Someone mentioned in the old thread that when they got an updated cache the site:domain.com check returned correctly again.

Anyone else seeing this - I have not had an updated cache on my homepages since then although I have on some internals and some of these internals are now top on a site:domain.com check.

tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 35100 posted 10:45 am on Jul 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

regarding [64.233.189.107...] thats showing much better results for me but the site:command is all over the shop

This 179 message thread spans 6 pages: 179 ( [1] 2 3 4 5 6 > >
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