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Datacenter Watch: 2006-06-28
Dayo_UK




msg:718177
 8:28 am on Jun 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

< continued from: [webmasterworld.com...] >

Wow - this looks like a major major screw up by Google this time (lol yet again)

It is almost as if the allinanchor, allintitle and therefore other serps have been turned off for 2-3 word searches in the sector I watch.

Worst results yet. Someone said reverted back to results/algo/scoring prior to or at the beginning of Big Daddy - this could fit in with what I am seeing.

[edited by: tedster at 2:55 pm (utc) on June 28, 2006]

 

MLHmptn




msg:718297
 8:37 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)


i dont think anyone is saying google.com is displaying from a single IP are they?

I'm referencing everybody's thought on what DC they think is so great. Also above you noted your positions on each DC IP. Your positions on those IP's really don't matter as do your positions on www.google.com. Tell us where your at on www.google.com. I would be willing to bet your in a different position on www.google.com than any IP address you use directly.

[edited by: MLHmptn at 8:40 am (utc) on June 30, 2006]

petehols




msg:718298
 8:39 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi Mlhmptn

My positions on goole.com and .co.uk are exactly the same when I ping the datacentre and go directly to it.

Pete

MLHmptn




msg:718299
 8:42 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Pete...Are you beyond position 3 in www.google.com and .co.uk? Beyond the top 3 is where I am noticing differences.

[edited by: tedster at 5:33 pm (utc) on June 30, 2006]

kaybarella




msg:718300
 8:43 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

i know google.com and google.co.uk will display different results. i pinged to see the IP of the datacentre my machine is using at given times through the day. i dont care what each of these datacentres do, say, are called or when they get off.

my point is trying to work out when things are going to settle down and prior to this my machines displayed different results at different times of the day

The only results i care about are what my clients see. figs to individual DC results!

MLHmptn




msg:718301
 8:45 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

My bad kay...I misinterpreted what you was saying and I really wans't directing my post toward yours. It's just getting futile (as I've heard here before) to watch DC's as they no longer reflect your real positioning on www.google.com, .co.uk, etc.... Of course I don't know that for everybody as petehols is reporting his serps are the same for IP's as they are on www.google.com and .co.uk.

All I know is this update has made my hair GRAY! :>~ JUST FOR MEN?!

kaybarella




msg:718302
 8:54 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

s'ok ;)

i did notice myself that .com and co.uk page 1's appeared to be way too similar when you flick between the two but no different beyond 3. however i did notice, may be coincidence, that in the 1-3 spots, where .co.uk displays unique sites .com might display an additional page from a site (thus moving all further results down 1 spot)

steveb




msg:718303
 9:10 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Just talking on the phone with someone, and they also saw the results I'm getting, even though their cache IP is different, and the google.com results are different than the IP results.

That person's site was #12 on both, but the results around it were all different (which again shows the uselessness of focusing on your own stuff).

While the death of DC watching would be a nice thing in itself, you have to wonder why they even bother to display the lower quality results on all those DCs.

Google does more weird things than my Uncle Harold, but this is pretty darn weird. (Still, the comcast and google.com results are pretty quite good... I only wish they'd not have the 2004 supplemental instead of the real page for one of my sites...)

Hissingsid




msg:718304
 9:30 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

kaybarella said
The only results i care about are what my clients see. figs to individual DC results!

Through carefully noting the IPs of DCs for .co.uk we have found that there are at least 6 different IPs that serve google.co.uk. Different ISPs gat different DCs at the same time. During periods when there are a number of different dataset/algo mixes this means that some users in the UK will be getting results that help you while others are getting results that are no help to you.

I have had days when my own default google.co.uk SERPs are bad for us (on BT Broadband North of England) but my google.co.uk traffic is very strong and other days when the opposite is the case. It is not possible to know what the majority of UK users are seeing at any given time.

Good luck

Sid

tigger




msg:718305
 9:38 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

>I have had days when my own default google.co.uk SERPs are bad for us (on BT Broadband North of England) but my google.co.uk traffic is very strong

I agree I have extremes where the PC in my office will display a completely different result to my office in the garden both using the same route (BT) to access the net - crazy

petehols




msg:718306
 9:47 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

MLHmptn

Stickied

Pete

colin_h




msg:718307
 9:49 am on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hey, It looks like good news for those that got hit, like me, with this latest tweak. Just as in May, my webpages are being reincluded. Not just to the index, but right up there again. I give it a few more days and a couple more googlebot blitzes and I think we'll be back.

All the Best, Back to the Sun (I'm checking every 3 hours or so).

Col :-)

tigger




msg:718308
 4:14 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

nice to see you recovering Colin.

As our dropped 27 thread has vanished I presume its all over the DC thread

Hissingsid




msg:718309
 4:16 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi,

If only they would turn one knob at a time and wait to see what happens before changing something else. Its like they started making a curry and now have made an inedible mess because they added to much of a number of different ingredients.

If we had one set of results and had any idea what SERPs our potential visitors were seeing it might be possible to mnake plans to do something but since we don't I'll just try and convince myself that my potential clients are seeing the same results I am.

The curry may be spoiled but for some very important terms we are like the red oil that floats on the surface, at least on my default DC, as if that mattered!

Sid

FinanceGirls




msg:718310
 4:31 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hey Colin, great news! We may stay out of the casino and google watch today :)

ashear




msg:718311
 5:29 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

So whats the synopsis of this? Everyone getting back in?

My German site is not getting any traffic and I am not sure what the problem is.

b2net




msg:718312
 6:51 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

As long as 64.233.189.107 keeps showing the old results there's hope but now that it's clear this wasn't a two day "bug" you shouldn't expect any miracles anytime soon. Some sites may return a little later but some will never make it back so do like I do: abandon your old sites and build a better one to a new unsandboxed domain.

colin_h




msg:718313
 7:17 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Just an update. I'm relisted for 3 pages ... wow I hear you say, but it's a start and exactly as it happened in May. About 8 big keyphrases are back strongly from these pages, clocking number 1 of 10'000'000 + (Accross all DC's, some listing only 4th).

The main differences I see are on 72.14.207.99, 72.14.207.104 & 72.14.207.107 where I am 3 spots lower than the rest.

The last time this happened I had about 30 pages back by the next day and a gradual reinclusion spread over the next 10 days or so.

I'll keep you posted.

lordpercy




msg:718314
 7:25 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

I hope you are right Colin I can't take the stress of this much more, is there any pattern to which pages are coming back?

LP

ClintFC




msg:718315
 7:27 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Just an update. I'm relisted for 3 pages

What do you mean by relisted?

Do you mean that some of your pages were completely missing from Google's index and have now reappeared and are ranking well?

Or...

Do you mean that some of your pages (which have never been delisted) have now recovered from the severe drop in rankings that hit some sites on June 27th?

FinanceGirls




msg:718316
 7:31 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

My sites are still down in those DCs :( Do you think Google is synching up to these? What I noticed was that in our niche these sites are newer but have a ton more incoming links then we do. There are also a lot of directory sites. Although on these DCs the site command no longer has a bunch of supplementals.

g1smd




msg:718317
 9:12 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

>> I see that my current Google search results page (going to www.google.com) is actually being pieced together from these three IP addresses: <<

64.233.161.104
64.233.161.147
64.233.161.99

>> However, the cache pages are coming from a fourth, different IP address. <<

What do you mean by "pieced together"?

And, what was that fourth IP address?

tedster




msg:718318
 9:23 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

The fourth IP (cached page) was 72.14.209.104

By pieced together, I mean that the ShowIP extension reports data for the page coming from all three IP addresses. Further research has shown, so far, that three IP addresses is what I always get for a google.com page, and so far, they are always in the same pattern: three IPs from the same c-block with .104, .147 and .99 for the d-block, and always in that order.

Still haven't worked out which bits are coming from which IP

MLHmptn




msg:718319
 9:26 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Ted are you sure that the ShowIP plugin is not simply a name server lookup tool? I use that plugin and do a nslookup on www.google.com and the entries are exactly the same.

Would be very interesting though if in fact Google is piecing the results together from three DC's.

tedster




msg:718320
 9:36 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure of anything yet -- but the extension only shows three IP addresses when I go to the domain name: google.com google.co.uk and so on. Interestingly enough, the .com and .co.uk show the exact same IP addresses and very different results on some searches.

I've been wondering for a couple months about "weaving together" results from different data sets. Some SERPs seem to show a shift in semantic emphasis for results #4 - #7. And of course, there are those SERPS where those results are clearly labeled differently as well.

reseller




msg:718321
 10:24 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

ted

I'm listening, and highly appreciate your contributions which might explain the situation I asked about already on April 25 [webmasterworld.com] with this post. ;-)

=========================================
reseller
Senior Member

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joined:Feb 6, 2005
posts:652
msg #:3 9:46 pm on Apr 25, 2006 (utc 0)

MLHmptn

"Could VIRTUAL be the new Infrastruture?! My sites are virtually there and then virtually GONE! :>~"

I wouldn't be surprised of anything about that new infrastructure thing ;-)

Well I did try today to ping and tracert [google.sk...] once I saw the new unique serps. But I felt I was redirected to the wrong IP all the time. Because when run my test keywords on the IP I got, the serps was not the same as the new unique serps I saw first time.

Now.. a question to kind fellow members who understand servers/datacenters technically:

Is it possible to hide an IP or is it possible to redirect a ping/tracert query to another IP than the real one?

Thanks.

Bed time. Good night and God bless.
=========================================

unreviewed




msg:718322
 11:23 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

3 IPís Ö One for the results, one for the adís, and one for the Google logo on the image server. Just a guess.

tedster




msg:718323
 11:48 pm on Jun 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

And a decent guess it is -- except that any of the three IPs can be queried directly and will give a full search results page from just that one IP address. This kind of rules out a dedicated image server or ad server, I think.

Could VIRTUAL be the new Infrastruture?

From what I understand of virtualization (both of data and of applications) I think you're on to something there. None of us work with a data set as immense as what Google wrestles with. We don't even know how to THINK in terms of such a scale. And so without even knowing we do it, we revert to the scaled down approaches that we are familiar with. I mean, sheesh, they've got full teams completely dedicated just to keeping their search engine at maximum uptime -- no search algo responsibility, just make sure that the pages come up in our browsers.

I don't know how many have read the paper on the Google File System [labs.google.com]. Suffice it to say, it's an eye opener -- and I believe they have several patents on this approach.

But what that pdf describes is also 3 years old. My understanding is that the GFS was significantly changed in 2005 (perhaps even 2004) and I'd hazard a guess that it's been changed again with Big Daddy.

unreviewed




msg:718324
 12:31 am on Jul 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yeah, but you can type in the IP from a Google cache page as well, and g will still put up a search box.

tedster




msg:718325
 12:53 am on Jul 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Agreed, that's part of what I'm saying.

But mostly I'm concerned with the IP address or addresses of the results page, and not the search box. If you use a Google domain name for a starting location, my results page comes from 3 different IP addresses. But if I begin with a Google IP address, then the entire results page comes from just that one IP address.

So one IP address is not tapping into a dedicated image server, another getting an ad server, and so on. Each individual IP can access all the elements on a results page.

steveb




msg:718326
 1:12 am on Jul 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Does anyone else have this three IP thing? I just get one Google IP address (plus two local IPs that aren't Google).

unreviewed




msg:718327
 2:48 am on Jul 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

This wonít help much tedster, but I can tell you that from a Canadian IP, ďShow IPĒ, reports only 2 IPís, however, from my US based server, it does report 3 IPís.

Guess itís like a hotel room, why does it take 4 towels to do what 1 does at home?

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