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Disappearing and Reappearing rankings - Everflux or something else?
nzap




msg:749501
 11:50 pm on Jun 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi, I have had a listing for one of our main keywords in google, in the #1-#3 position for many years (perhaps 4 years+).

In the last several google updates, I notice that this listing disappears completely and then re-appears several days (sometimes 3-4 days) later.

I also notice that the others who are listed in similar positions for the same keywords next to mine do not seem to experience this.

Is this something I should be worried about?

 

tedster




msg:749502
 10:50 pm on Jun 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm seeing this right now on one particular domain for one particular keyword, where the ranking was steady as she goes for years and the domain is extremely clean.

Very strange, and some new factor (or bug) is kicking in I think. In fact, I can't imagine how or why the effect could be intentional, so I'm not doing anything to address it, unless the effect becomes more permanent. And even then, I wouldn't have a clue as to what I could do!

g1smd




msg:749503
 10:53 pm on Jun 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

...and if Tedster doesn't have a clue what to do, then God help everyone else who finds themselves in the same situation.

tedster




msg:749504
 10:58 pm on Jun 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

LOL, g1smd!

In other words, what I'm seeing here just has to be a temporary glitch. The regular rankings just came back in again this afternoon. The DC didn't change, either. I thought it must be a very isolated thing until I read this thread.

There's another recent post (with no replies) that sounds like it might be the same thing -- so I'm splicing it in below.

peterinwa




msg:749505
 12:09 am on Jun 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

Two years ago I discovered that a pair of keywords that related to my website content were much more popular than similar words I was using. So I put them in my title, description and on my homepage. I went from 500 in Google search results to 250 over night, then slowly worked my way up.

Yesterday I got to 13, then completely disappeared from the results. I don't show up in the first 800 anyway, but if I do a Search Within Results I do come up so I must be in there.

My results for many other keywords are still very good. Exactly where they have been.

I have not done anything to my site lately. Can anyone think of a reason this might have happened?

I have never played any games or used any tricks to try to improve my search results other than using words that are directly related to my site contents.

Thank you, Peter

nicedude




msg:749506
 11:51 pm on Jun 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

I had my homepage and keyword position disappear and then to reappear (this week was one of the times), this has happened too one of our sites in two different updates so far, the position came back fairly quickly on both occasions, the site fortunately has weathered all updates and has increased rank on on every occasion.

So it has always been been a glitch to me.

It's a little disturbing when it happens though, so just wait until this drawn out update is over and then panic.

peterinwa




msg:749507
 12:03 am on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks, I will delay my panic.

I also noticed that a site that has always appeared ranking above mine... a site that's been stable for many years dropped out.

Actually I did delay my panic, waiting a couple days to post. But the post above saying it may take a week gives me hope!

Peter

nzap




msg:749508
 4:17 am on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the feedback. My site has now re-appeared. It took only 2 days this time. As someone else said in this thread, it sure can be disturbing when it happens. I'm just glad it came back! Glad to know at least my site is not the only one that experiences this "glitch".

nzap




msg:749509
 4:19 am on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Oh, I forgot to mention, when this happens, when my home page listing on this particular keyword disappears, I go in and do minor updates on my site. This may help ... as new content or updates may be seen and picked up again. But I am not sure if this is co-incidence or whether the minor updates or changes actually help to have the page picked back up again. Thought I would share that just in case. No major changes, just minor ones.

minnapple




msg:749510
 6:25 am on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

This has been happening for a couple of months now.

Google will drop a page out of the "search" index that used to rank well on a phrase.

A secondary page may rank but not as well.

In time Google will include the stronger page and rankings will return, and in some cases will be higher than before for a short period of time.

If you loose position on certain phrase, paste the url of the page that used to rank in google search field to see if it returns a "not found".

Also, Google may choose to replace your title tag with the a dmoz title, which can cause more variations in your positions on searches.

peterinwa




msg:749511
 6:51 am on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Does anyone have a clue if Google reads this forum?

Peter

tedster




msg:749512
 6:58 am on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Two official representatives of Google Search are members here - GoogleGuy and Adam_Lasnik. In addition we have official representatives from AdSense and Adwords. I would guess that other G employees read here as well.

This has been happening for a couple of months now.

Thanks, minapple, interesting to know. A "Big Daddy" thing, I assume. Just one more odd little piece of the puzzled way Google is functioning today.

g1smd




msg:749513
 4:15 pm on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have a 4 year old page that usually sits at about #3 to #5 in 100 million results for a two word search term.

Several times per year, it drops to #80-something or #250-something for 2 to 3 days and then goes back to within 2 places (up or down) of where it was originally placed.

I still have no idea why this happens.

simonmc




msg:749514
 4:52 pm on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

This happens to me too. Very annoying. When you mention it around the forums though people think you are mad :-)

Glad to see there is a band of fellow sufferers out there too.

I wish it would happen to my competetitors too but they just sit there solid as a rock. It's just but now I don't feel so lonely.

peterinwa




msg:749515
 4:53 pm on Jun 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

My site's showing up again, though a little lower in the results.

It's understandable why I might get excited about dropping out of the results altogether. My site started as a hobby to help people. It is entirely content oriented.

But it became very popular and gets over 20,000 visitors a day which is "small potatoes" in web terms, but pretty good for an old man's hobby!

The thing is, now countless companies have come along and done the same thing. Actually much better in many cases, though I think I have found a niche by keeping my site simple and very easy to use. Anyway, my 14 hours days can't compete with these company's staffs and I have never done (nor will do) anything to market my site. So the day it falls out of Google... well, then I'll REALLY retire.

I was just worried that day had arrived.

It's most understandable that my site jumps around in the results. But it would seem to me that if a site that has been in the top 10 out of hundreds of millions for a long time completely falls out of the listings it is a flaw on Google's part. Since the site is still of value -- proven by the fact that it returns to its position after a few days -- it would seem to be a disservice to Google users that it goes missing for a period.

I love Google and don't mean to sound rudely critical. I have never paid a penny to be listed in a search engine and always thought Google was so great for keeping it free. In fact I always thought that a search engine that charged (I'm going back a few years) was not listing the best sites for their users, but the sites that were willing to pay to be listed.

It's great that someone from Google reads this forum.

Peter

simonmc




msg:749516
 7:08 am on Jun 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

This happens to too few people by the looks of it for anyone to even care.

Google has plenty of sites to show in our place so the users never notice anything. As far as they are concerned, the results are good.

It is just us webmasters that suffer. Google could care less because we are so insignificant a problem for them.

This by the way has been happening well before big daddy. It probably started around the Florida updates but it's been so long happening now I forgot when it actually started or at least when I first noticed it.

If you look across the macdar datacenters on any given day you may see your site well placed in all. Then the next day dissapeared from some. Then reapear in again and so on and so on. Sometimes back in for weeks... thinking that the bug has finally be solved. Then out again and in again just to dash my hopes.

This has been going on for so long now my business strategy has changed so that I don't rely on google I just treat anything I get as a bonus.

In my personal opinion, google can do as they please. They don't care if your business relies on them. Thats your bad planing is their approach.

Remember... DO NO EVIL :-)

and if you believe that you will believe anything.

peterinwa




msg:749517
 3:52 pm on Jun 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

Perhaps in general it is an "insignificant problem for them." And I realize they can't look at my site on an individual basis.

But in fact my site makes them many thousands of dollars a month in AdSense revenue.

I get regular if infrequent contact from AdSense inquiring about working together to improve my AdSense revenue even further. Now I have something to discuss next time they contact me!

Peter

simonmc




msg:749518
 7:33 am on Jun 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

Many thousands of dollars to you or I is a significant amount. To google it is not even chump change.

This is a definate problem and it would help the cause if more people actually reliased they have this problem and then came and posted it. Or maybe it really is just us 5 people here :-)

mimo




msg:749519
 8:55 am on Jun 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've the same problem, for some keywords I disappear between saturday 17/6 and sunday 18. Return on monday 19. I was very worried.

But for a main keyword not return (only for this dc) 216.239.37.104.

Then I've notice big change (page index)I drop for
every sites
site:www.domain.com
1)from 90.000 to 60.000
2)from 80.000 to 50.000
and so on..

[edited by: tedster at 12:21 pm (utc) on June 21, 2006]

yump




msg:749520
 10:23 am on Jun 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

imo Google need to be careful that they don't mess up their well-regarded brand with all this constant tinkering with results.

Just doing a quick survey amongst friends down the pub recently, quite a few people expressed
irritation that they could do a search one week, find a useful site, forget to bookmark it and then couldn't find it again the week after - with the same search.

"That didn't use to happen" is what they said. I explained that Google's algorithm and updates were probably the reason. "Its stupid, why don't they leave it alone" was the response.

Fair comment I thought. Its only a small sample but I bet its representative. Google should take note.

simonmc




msg:749521
 10:01 am on Jun 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

Just doing a quick survey amongst friends down the pub recently

The old "Survey down the pub" ploy to scare Google into doing the right thing. Works everytime.

Goodle only pays lip service to webmasters. They have no need or desire to actually listen to them. Any discussion we have here with Googleguy or Adam or Matt or whoever Matt is calling himself today is just a PR stunt. Matt either relises he is just a Pawn or he doesn't but a PR stunt is all it is.

sunny_kat




msg:749522
 10:08 am on Jun 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

Its a google flux and god knows when it might get over.

simonmc




msg:749523
 6:59 am on Jun 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

You put every single problem down to everflux. Everflux is like Pixie Dust. This problem is not related to any specific update.

My theory is that our sites are on the cusp of one or two spam filters. Depending on how many pages are indexed in the data center affects our sites in a negative way. So the fewer the sites in the closer we get to the filter. The filter then trips and out we go. More pages get added which weakens our spam threashold and bingo we get back in again.

Google seems to love to throw the baby out with the bathwater and has no qualms at all about a bit of friendly fire.

We are whats know as collateral damage. Unless you have the secret to the algo though you will never know where or what this filter is so you will never be able to correct the problem.

I don't of course have these problems with MSN or Yahoo. Then again, nor do I need to provide them a sitemap, correct 301's, make sure https and http are not indexed, constantly re request re-inclusion and worry about supplementals. Just seems that MSN and YAHOO can do all that themselves without making a fuss and blaming their problems on webmasters, lack of space, and the wrong kind of links.

seoDre




msg:749524
 8:09 am on Jun 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

I don't of course have these problems with MSN or Yahoo.

My first post here at WebmasterWorld and wha-bam, I got the quote's right. I have in fact seen the same issue happen in MSN. My results for a well established #1 - 3 term disappear for several days then come back strong.

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