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This 236 message thread spans 8 pages: < < 236 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 > >     
Very Odd - Big Drops in SERPS Today April 26, 06
Big SERP Drops - Odd Fresh Dates
Hollywood




msg:757744
 6:35 pm on Apr 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Very Odd - Big Drops in SERPS Today April 26, 06

A site we have has seen decent results for over 2 years, all of a sudden today all SERPS have dropped for us by about 4-10 pages lower all at once.

This is very odd, we have worked very hard to put out decent content and relevant content.

Any reasons for this, is their some sort of weird dance taking place?

We adjusted the page two days ago to make it better for the reader and seems we got slammed very badly for this.

Google fresh date (on serps) shows a date April 24, 06 but when clicking on the "Cached" link on the results page it shows a date of April 18, 06

Curious to what the webmasters think of this out there.

 

da95649




msg:757834
 12:12 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi again,

Just realised google have 2 different entries in their cache for:

www.domainname.co.uk
www.domainname.co.uk/index.php

They have 2 different entries with different titles and descriptions.

Can someone please advise what should be the setup in regards to redirect and www. nonwww etc etc?

AustrianOak




msg:757835
 12:30 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

soapystar, bare with me/us! :)

My www and non-www pages indexed is only a difference of 1. I've been looking and looking and can't seem to find a thread that explains exactly how to diagnose if you need to do the 301 redirect, or should it be done either way?

Just wondering if there can be any negative side-effect of implementing the 301 redirect?

JuniorOptimizer




msg:757836
 12:39 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've had some sort of major increase in rankings over the last 48 hours.

wheelie34




msg:757837
 12:46 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

FWIW, Yes do the 301, before you do it, how are links to your site, ie, are they linking to www.domain.com or domain.com thats the decision you need to make, how many pages are showing in G for each.

@ da95649 when linking to your home page (index.php) from your site navigation, do you link to index or to / I have a 301 to my WWW and all links on site run to / I dont link to any index.php,asp,html incase you need to change the site homepage name in the future.

@ junioroptimizer YES me too, still running at around 40% of my pages though (thanks to big D) but increased to #2 spot for major keyphrase, has your G title changed at all, G has replaced my title with its own description of the page, and makes perfect sense.

JuniorOptimizer




msg:757838
 12:48 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Looks like the same title as usual on the pages. These ranking increases are enough to make me think this is a full-blown update of some sort.

wheelie34




msg:757839
 12:50 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

@ junior, do you have any missing pages, or did you have any during big D

JuniorOptimizer




msg:757840
 12:52 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

I do on some sites, and the page counts are still low.

The website that is raising in the ranks is a 9-22 damaged website that came back about 2 weeks ago. It doesn't have any missing pages, but it used to have the supplemental problem before it was 301'd a while back.

fritzbayer




msg:757841
 1:16 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi Hollywood,

you orginally asked, if somebody else has had the same experience as you. I lost 98% of visitors going down from 200 to about 4-6 per day around april 29th.

I have not changed anything at all since two years. So something in the algo must have changed, because there were absolutely no changes to our site, which we account for.

No recovery yet and I'm not really expecting it. It sounds like the sanbox syndrom, which people have talked about. It never happend to me, so I did not really follow the discussions.

But now I agree that there exists something, which can make you drop from one day to another, without you really having done anything to the site. It sounds unbelievable but it's true. It just happend to me and of course I think its very strange.

da95649




msg:757842
 1:41 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

hi,

all of my anchor text links point to [domainname.co.uk...]

In my site nav, all internal links point to the same URL above.

I never link to index.php

Dayo_UK




msg:757843
 2:23 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

da95649

I would also check for https entries if I was you.

I am not sure if www.domain.com versus www.domain.com/index.html/php/htm etc does any damage.

domain.com, www.domain.com and https://www.domain.com certainly causes problems for G though.

da95649




msg:757844
 2:57 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Dayo_UK
domain.com, www.domain.com and https://www.domain.com certainly causes problems for G though.

Ok, I have just gone to google and searched the below:

domain.com has cahce of 1st may and shows title as <company name> with short description
www.domain.com same as above

https://domain.com and https://www.domain.com - shows different results
This has my real title/desc/metatags etc also the cache on this is the 28th April, so a little older then previous entry.

So to conclude when you goto all 4 types of URLs, the website is live an running with no redirect in place, all of my links refer to www.domain.co.uk, as well as my external one way links.

However as far as google's DB is concerned, they seem to have different entries stored when I search for the terms.

Also when I do site: I can different results:

site:non-www addresss get 304 pages indexed
site:www address get 140 pages indexded

regardless of http or https, what does this all mean and could this be the reason to my drop in serp?

To complicate furthur all references above are refering to the .co.uk version of my site which is my main site, my hosts have arranged so that when users goto .com, .com is displayed, does this mean i have a redirect in place?

i have just checked my htaacess file and all I have is :
php_flag session.use_trans_sid off

JimLahey




msg:757845
 3:03 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

regardless of http or https, what does this all mean and could this be the reason to my drop in serp?

I doubt the canonical issue is behind the drops on April the 26th as even though your site has some issues with that matter....many dropped on that date do not.

da95649




msg:757846
 3:11 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

from my host:

It's not a 301 redirect, the domain is parked onto the account this adds an additional entry into the httpd.conf file to tell Apache
that request for domain.com should show the content from the same account.

You can use mod-rewite to have visitors coming through domain.com redirected to domain.co.uk,

should i do this?

Dayo_UK




msg:757847
 3:12 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>>I doubt the canonical issue is behind the drops on April the 26th as even though your site has some issues with that matter....many dropped on that date do not.

Really?

Looking at the sites in profiles here etc - it looks like all sites I have seen mentioned in this latest drop of had canonical problems in the recent past or still have the problems.

JimLahey




msg:757848
 3:28 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

This April 26th issue has been mentioned in other forums and affected domains have named. My site does not have the canonical issue and I am betting WebFusion's and Hollywood's site do not either.

Dayo_UK




msg:757849
 3:30 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hollywoods does and the site in your email address on your profile does.

Cant see/dont know Webfusions.

JimLahey




msg:757850
 3:46 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hollywood's affected site is not in his profile. My site has had the following in my .htaccess file for over a year:

RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} .
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}!^www\.websitename\.com
RewriteRule (.*) [websitename.com...] [R=301,L]

Unless Google is still having canonical issues that predate my 301

Dayo_UK




msg:757851
 3:50 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>Hollywood's affected site is not in his profile.

Yes, I have been in communication with Hollywood - the site that he is having problems with has Canonical issues.

>>>>Unless Google is still having canonical issues that predate my 301

Exactly, do a site:domain.com -www and see if you have any entries.

Check the PR of an internal page - does it have different PR on the non-www to the www? - If so there is a split - Google may have been able to consolidate PR etc for a homepage but the site can still be split. (So it seems)

JimLahey




msg:757852
 4:09 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

...hmmm it still lists 28 pages on my site that have been 301'd using Redirect permanent or outright deleted - Error 404 - File Not Found!

Dayo_UK




msg:757853
 4:12 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>>>...hmmm it still lists 28 pages on my site that have been 301'd using Redirect permanent or outright deleted - Error 404 - File Not Found!

Exactly.

As I said - it looks like all sites I have seen mentioned in this latest drop of had canonical problems in the recent past or still have the problems.

It is not a suprise - it has happened a few times at webmasterworld - every 2-3 months a new thread develops and more sites get knocked off.

But Google have been talking about a fix to this issue sometime down the road and Big Daddy is supposed to be part of that.

However it seems sites can still get dropped in this manner under the new infastructure.

Obv. Webfusion is an experienced member - so I dont know what is happening on his site.

dangerman




msg:757854
 4:57 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Interesting thread.. there really are more woolly mammoths out there!

April 26 I lost around 2000 page visits a day to a site that has had massive SEO efforts over the past 3 years. Most of my major keyword combos have been blasted to the outer googlesphere and the site name www.domain.com is on the ..wait for it.. 4th page after happily occupying the No. 1 spot for eons. And it is a unique name. Now preceded by one-page wonders in the Serps.

I have one other site unaffected. The non-www 301 redirect issue has never been a problem before, however we have today implemented this. Sounds as though it won't make a difference though. Have appealed for info through my AdWords rep, but seems as though it is a one-way channel bwtween AdWords and Search.

Anyone in my boat gets some info or change in their situation please post.

phpdude




msg:757855
 5:34 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

the site name www.domain.com is on the ..wait for it.. 4th page after happily occupying the No. 1 spot for eons. And it is a unique name. Now preceded by one-page wonders in the Serps.

Yes, this is an emerging pattern as it has happend to my site as well and others that I've seen. I believe it is an unintended side effect of what ever they are currently trying to do and as usual they will never admit to an issue. It will just suddenly resolve itself over time. Last time it took weeks for the problem I had to get worked out.

Hopefully sooner than later.

F_Rose




msg:757856
 5:41 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Sorry.. I am a newbie..

How can I check if our site has canonical issues..

When I do a search on the experimental and cleanup datacenters our site: would come up an even amount wether I www. or w/o www.

I know app. 3 months ago when we have launched our redesign we have 301 redireted all to www.widgets.com/

If so are we OK on canonical?

What concerns me as well is Google not indexing most of our site. Dropped 75% of our pages..Haven't seen any increase in pages ever since they have so drastically dropped...

spruce2000




msg:757857
 7:12 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Over the w/e I have seen the biggest changes to the Google rankings for my key words that I have seen in 15 months. My ranking has risen a few spaces so I'm not complaining but I don't understand the changes - many of my competitors who clearly don't know about SEO for their sites have risen out of nowhere, whilst spamy "directory" listings have gone. Google are obviously trying to improve quality (and from the end-users point of view have succeeded). Right now I feel worked - all my hard work at SEO - obtaining links from legit sites has come to nothing because my sleepy competitors are being listed anyway.
The Google ranking for my key words look more like a DMOZ listing rather than any algo derived search. In one keyword a very sleepy competitor (in terms of SEO) but a very usefull resouce is suddenly listed 2nd from nowhere- do I detect a human hand in the results?, very strange.

spruce2000




msg:757858
 7:25 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

... i should have mentioned that this is for results on google.co.uk

g1smd




msg:757859
 7:33 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Check these three searches for canonical problems:

site:domain.com
site:domain.com -inurl:www
site:www.domain.com

One of those searches should show zero results. If both www and non-www pages show up then you have a problem.

Get the 301 redirect in place as soon as possible. Just because you have not had a problem in the past, isn't a reason for problems to not start now.

I see some cleanup of results on 72.14.207.99 for some sites. Check that DC, and compare it to the others regularly.

AustrianOak




msg:757860
 7:40 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

G1,

In my case I get:

site:domain.com -> aprox 500
site:domain.com -inurl:www -> aprox 25
site:www.domain.com -> aprox 500 (1 less result than site:domain.com)

Any diagnosis? I am in the process of putting up a 301 rewrite on my site.. hosting company making it difficult..

Hollywood




msg:757861
 7:54 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have major issues with that G1smd - but whyt he accross the board 4 page in serps drop is beyond me, and why is it happening now after I placed up a 301 redirect.

It seems after I added the 301 redirect properly that the issues started, before I added it just in case when nothing was wrong. Go Google thanks for the slap in the face for trying to prevent the issue, man I hope Googles looses a billion on some good person suing them for this and winning and it going to them not the lawyers. If anyone is a lawyer out there hint hint.

When you type in on a browser for "my" business site mybusiness.com it redirects to www.mybusiness.com, is there a way to have this work but not actually work correctly?

I feel like a drunken psychopath now, as I do not understand why they are killing me like this for doing it right. Amazing!

============== My problem is real obvious ==========

site:site.com - Results 1 - 10 of about 320 from site.com

site:site.com -inurl:www - Results 1 - 10 of about 222 from site.com

site:www.site.com - Results 1 - 10 of about 111 from www.site.com

================= below on 72.14.207.99 ==============

site:site.com - Results 1 - 10 of about 338 from site.com

site:site.com -inurl:www - Results 1 - 10 of about 225 from site.com

site:www.site.com - Results 1 - 10 of about 111 from www.site.com

g1smd




msg:757862
 8:02 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

All you can do is add the redirect, make sure that all internal links go to the correct version, check your site with Xenu LinkSleuth and fix all problems found. Google might take a few months to work things out, but they will eventually get it right.

Hollywood




msg:757863
 8:15 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

I do not, nor should anyone else cross any fingers in thinking this will be cleared up by Google, as I said I hope they are found responsible for this via someone loosing something and winning some battle over it.

It's SAD!

H

AustrianOak




msg:757864
 8:19 pm on May 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

All you can do is add the redirect, make sure that all internal links go to the correct version, check your site with Xenu LinkSleuth and fix all problems found. Google might take a few months to work things out, but they will eventually get it right.

----

G1, or anyone, does internal linking cause problems too? Example.. I want to a href to a page www.site.com/stuff.html and I currently use a href="stuff.html" is that fine? Or do I also need to use a href="http://www.site.com/stuff.html"

?

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