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This 218 message thread spans 8 pages: < < 218 ( 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 > >     
Big Daddy Part 6
jdancing

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 5:33 pm on Mar 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

< continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

It seems nearly all the data centers are showing some form of bigdaddy results now. I am not sure if there is a 100% bigdaddy/not bigdaddy distinction anymore.

The only two DCs I see that are showing different results are 216.239.59.104 and 66.249.87.104 and those results seem to be from late December, early January, at least in the sectors I monitor.

[edited by: tedster at 5:31 am (utc) on Mar. 25, 2006]

 

ClintFC

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 5:56 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

"I'd have to believe Matt when he says another week or so."

Sorry, but this really is wishful thinking. All Matt said was that he #thinks# maybe a new threshold #might# have gone up recently and that this will #hopefully# make a difference.

So, not only was he wishy-washy about whether or not any change has been made, but also a slight tweak to a "threshold" is very unlikely to address the kind of problems we're seeing.

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 6:45 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Do most of you realize what is actually changing is the machines themselves in BigDaddy... and not the algorithmic scripts?

This is why it seems to me, there is a large discrepancy between .com and .co.uk

frakilk said
>>> All of the above are BD. The rollout is complete.

I doubt you work for Google and to post that claim is irresponsible. You mislead others who are new to the boards doing so. Do not make claims you have no right or knowledge making.

To be honest all the speculation that is being done is useless from what I have seen...people post one thing today and later its changed.

I advised my clients of Googles changes and sit back for a month or so. Then see whats what... because now whats here today is gone tomorrow. It's been this way since November.

Doesn't seem ready to shake out so soon.

As for Matt Cutts not being able to speak on things...he works with the spam team and as such should not be commenting on PageRank, Indexing or other issues most likely being under the Google eye.

He probably is also very busy with spam team..he cannot keep full track of indexing team... and engineers doing the machine swaps as well...give the man a break....

jrs_66

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 7:52 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

--- Do most of you realize what is actually changing is the machines themselves in BigDaddy... and not the algorithmic scripts?

BD is a software upgrade, not hardware

Gimp

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 7:57 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Justify with factual evidence that there is no hardware upgrade involved.

jrs_66

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 8:35 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

--- Justify

'Bigdaddy is a software upgrade to Google’s infrastructure that provides the framework for a lot of improvements' - Matt Cutts

[mattcutts.com...]

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 9:22 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

From MattCuttBlog

Bigdaddy progress update

See >>>> I inserted where he is quoted as saying it is an infrastructure (hardware from my view and many others)as well as software (data push or algorithm update)

February 1, 2006 @ 3:49 pm · Filed under Google/SEO

In case you don’t want to download a 70 megabyte audio file, here’s the latest on Bigdaddy. Bigdaddy continues to roll out and is now available at three data centers. In addition to 66.249.93.104 and 64.233.179.104, Bigdaddy is now up at 216.239.51.104. We’ve been going through the spam feedback and acting on it, and reading through the general search feedback as well.

Q: Is Bigdaddy still on track and launching?
>>>>>>>>A: Yes. Remember that Bigdaddy involves new infrastructure and is not just a data push or algorithm update. <<<<<<------

Don’t take it as a promise, but I’d expect a new data center to be converted to Bigdaddy roughly every 10 days or so. Again, take that as a rule of thumb. There are smart folks doing this transition, and they’re deciding how to do it in the best way.

Q: Will those IP addresses always show Bigdaddy results?
A: No, not always. Sometimes data centers are taken out of the rotation for testing or other reasons.

Q: Is there an easy way to test if a datacenter is running Bigdaddy?
A: There’s not a definitive way outside of Google. But the [sf giants] example that I mentioned in my pre-Bigdaddy 302 post remains a pretty good test. If the query [sf giants] returns giants.mlb.com, the odds are pretty good that you’re hitting Bigdaddy.

Q: How will I see the switchover happen?
A: It will happen naturally as more data centers switch over to the Bigdaddy infrastructure. The more data centers there are using Bigdaddy, the odds of you hitting a Bigdaddy data center in the normal rotation go up.

Q: Can I still give spam or quality feedback?
A: Absolutely. Follow the same instructions from my original Bigdaddy post. I’ll ask someone to review any new spam feedback, and I’ll request that someone look through the non-spam search quality feedback looking for issues as well.

-------------------------------------------------------

Justified Sem-Advance

ScottD

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 9:25 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

avalanche101

I also have results like you do. Some DCs show 700ish pages whilst others show 25,000 in the site. However in reality we have about 7/800 unique pages of content so I'm happy. Just some of the DCs are listing lots of pages with extra variables in the URL, which are really not extra pages as such. I don't think these pages will really affect traffic, or make any difference to SERPs. We rank the same in both types of DC

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 9:25 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Further this also shows us we still have a way to go.

"Don’t take it as a promise, but I’d expect a new data center to be converted to Bigdaddy roughly every 10 days or so."

Software would not take 10 days to implement either, hardware changes and software upgrades would.

Considering there are 40 or so Datacenters and at 10 days to swap over each...it would seem to me to be a years time total before all DCs are in BD Mode.

jrs_66

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 10:03 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

seo1,

What don't you understand about- 'Bigdaddy is a software upgrade to Google’s infrastructure that provides the framework for a lot of improvements'? Why are you so insistent about the word 'infrastructure' somehow meaning hardware? 'Infrastructure' as a word, is quite applicable to software- independent of hardware. Please point out to me a single (just one of hundreds) datacenter which is not using BD. For someone so very interested in facts, it seems you have none.

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 10:20 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>What don't you understand about- 'Bigdaddy is a software upgrade to Google’s infrastructure that provides the framework for a lot of improvements'?

All Matt says is that there is a software upgrade, he doesn't exclude hardware as the enabler for that change. I don't know if this is right, but this POV is certainly as right as yours.

If the software is built, then why does it take months to roll out? Binary pushes in the past took days, not months. Just because we can't find a DC (which is a physical entity) that is showing non-BD results doesn't mean all of the Google servers have been upgraded or the software has been installed everywhere.

You're reading only the part that you like - on March 22nd, he said this: "We’re down to just 1-2 data centers left in the switchover to Bigdaddy. It’s possible that the Bigdaddy switchover will be complete in the next week or two." That was only three days ago.

jrs_66

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 10:36 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Let me shorten Matt's quote to maybe clarify---
'Bigdaddy is a software upgrade to Google’s infrastructure'.

If anyone has any knowledge of hardware ever being mentioned, I'd love to know.

BD has been rolled out. I'm sure the people at Google are now monitoring the software upgrade for glitches as we speak. I suppose there is a chance that some bugs may need to be addressed, so, technically, the roll out is not yet complete. A major infrastructure change involving some of the most advanced software the world has to offer takes time, 10 days per datacenter seems remarkably fast.

frakilk

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 10:54 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Seo1 -

I never stated that the BD rollout was complete. I simply quoted the post before me. Please get your facts straight.

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 11:19 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Let me shorten Matt's quote to maybe clarify---
'Bigdaddy is a software upgrade to Google’s infrastructure'.

Think about the point you're trying to make. Of course it's software - Matt is stating the OBVIOUS. Hardware is useless without software. What you're missing is the point that software changes are sometimes ENABLED by hardware changes.

We're thinking beyond the OBVIOUS. Our hypothesis is that hardware changes caused a four month roll out of Big Daddy. Why do you think it took four months to roll out software changes?

Ellio

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 11:29 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>Why do you think it took four months to roll out software changes?<<,

Could it be that each new BD DC needs that time to complete a new and independent crawl to create that DC's index?

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 11:56 pm on Mar 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

I read what Matt said on February 1st and clearly states it is an infrastructure and software change.

You can shorten things all you want....infrastructure is hardware that the software works on.

By mid March I am sure he is tired and grouped the words together.

ClintFC

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 12:31 am on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

You say H/W, I say S/W
H/W...S/W
S/W...H/W
Let's call the whole thing off.

Sheesh...What a waste of space this debate has been.

Meanwhile, back on planet reality, BD's software remains buggy as hell relegating millions (billions?) of high quality Web-pages to the dustbin.

PS: I believe the original spark for the whole H/W, S/W debate was someone incorrectly stating that since BD was a H/W only change it couldn't have any bugs in. Whether BD is 100% S/W or a mix of S/W and H/W is therefore irrelevant, since it's the S/W components that have the bugs in.

PPS: For the record, it is just S/W

dataguy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 12:59 am on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

H/W - S/W, my guess is that it involves both, but it doesn't really matter.

What I think is more important is that Big Daddy now contains additional "knobs" which set threasholds which were not possible before. To me this says that Big Daddy is working the way it was intended, it just needs a few knobs tweaked.

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 1:24 am on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>Could it be that each new BD DC needs that time to complete a new and independent crawl to create that DC's index?

That would be very inefficient and completely unnecessary.

Anyway, perhaps it's time to kill this thread now that BD is nearly complete - what say mods?

gcc_llc

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 2:07 am on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Well it originally was the supplemental thread and clearly that issue isn't even remotely settled.

2by4

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 2:57 am on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Seo1, it's not worth it, I gave up a few months ago.

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 4:32 am on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

2by4 Thank you

And I guess you know the reason, why I post so rarely.

Say what are you doing these days? as I need someone with intelligence... and thinks a bit like myself.

Let me know if you need / want work.

bumpaw

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 4:41 am on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Say what are you doing these days? as I need someone with intelligence... and thinks a bit like myself.

I always thought that people that agreed with me were intelligent.:) The squabble meter here is approaching the red line.

Ellio

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 8:21 am on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Back to the thread topic then:

Supplemental Hell...............

Very much an unfinished thread.

(Admin - when you split this thread you changed the name and left out the supplemental bit and that is now confusing posters!)

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 1:22 pm on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm finding cached pages even further back than before

Some inside pages now show as 26 Nov 2004

What's the earliest caches being recorded?

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 1:28 pm on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>Supplemental Hell...............

The problem I had with supplementals is all but gone now. I've gone from around 200 pages (100 being supplemental) to around 870 pages this morning - none showing as supplemental.

My page count started to rise shortly after Matt mentioned he had a fix in place. With 870 of 1,100 pages showing, I'm fairly confident the rest will soon appear (a lot of Googlebot activity this weekend.)

I have no idea why I was punished in the first place, but after getting out of the sandbox in July, I was hit hard during the September 22nd update.

Now that pages are appearing, BD has been very kind to me. My overall traffic has doubled this month and my Google referals are up fourfold.

HiltonHead

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 1:48 pm on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Back to the thread topic then:
Supplemental Hell...............

Very much an unfinished thread.

(Admin - when you split this thread you changed the name and left out the supplemental bit and that is now confusing posters!)


Does Admin think supplementals are unimportant? Surely not

LuckyGuy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 1:50 pm on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

MY side has been hit hard last week. Allmost all of the 4900 pages are gone down to about 600 pages. Now it beginns to climb a little bit but the pages now in index do not exist since Month. The original pages are blown away. Had big trouble with sidemaps errors. Maybe this was/is the point.
Hope it will be ok next week ( now BD has spread all over - or not ;) )

avalanche101

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 1:53 pm on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi,
we've got supplemental pages dated 22 dec 2004!

But most are 27 sep 2005 - which I think was Jagger time

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 1:56 pm on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

From my perspective if you are in supplemental or were, you will be again...

Reason - due to old pages.

If the content on your pages is old it seems it heads for supplemental index.

Try pulling in RSS feed into the pages, or using cron job to replace content on the pages every few days.

Supplemental is not a bad thing...all it means is they have enough in the main index for most people to be happy ingesting but in case someone wants more information there is the supplemental index.

Definition of Supplement:

1 : something that completes or makes an addition <dietary supplements>
2 : a part added to or issued as a continuation of a book or periodical to correct errors or make additions
3 : an angle or arc that when added to a given angle or arc equals 180°

Now we can toss out # 3 and keep 2 as the most relevant meaning to a search engine as the search engine is just an online periodical itself.

The dietary supplement we can keep as it implies being healthy having a supplement.

Again the cure for being supplemental.. is being fresh and current.

The Dr. is out ;->

[edited by: Seo1 at 2:00 pm (utc) on Mar. 26, 2006]

avalanche101

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 2:00 pm on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi,
That is true of some of the pages - however we have our home page and most of our important pages in supplemental land - these pages are updated several times a day.
They will probably sort this out soon but..
Is it possible to contact google about this?
If so how do you go about it?

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33624 posted 2:03 pm on Mar 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

avalanche

Not sure about how google sees you updating and whether it is fresh content or feed from someone else already recognized by google and sort of filtering out dupe content pushes you down in the serps some?

As far as contacting them there is an email address but from what I am reading theyre no longer monitoring as they know they have issues.

This 218 message thread spans 8 pages: < < 218 ( 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 > >
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