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Big Daddy Part 5
GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 5:43 pm on Mar 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

continued from:
[webmasterworld.com...]


Okay, quite a few people should see their pages coming
back. If you haven't seen any change (that is, if your pages are still supplemental), I'd like to look into that too so that I can see if there's any common factor remaining.

So: if your pages are still supplemental, feel free to write to sesnyc06 [at] gmail.com with the subject line of "stillsupplemental" (all one word), and I'll ask someone to check the emails out.

Hope that helps, and I'm glad that lots of people are seeing a full recovery,
GoogleGuy

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 5:20 pm (utc) on Mar. 22, 2006]

 

Abhilash

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 1:09 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Swanson,

I have to agree with you 100% (more than 100% if I were one of those idiots that uses numbers like 110%--so irritating & completely off-topic). Personally, the company who has gone supplemental in this case (for whom I do the SEO work) has definitely seen a significant loss of revenue.

I've tried emailing GG at the email addy. I even tried the User Support Group. I was about to try Matt's blog (again) but saw this guy Adam/Rahul has already done all of that in (sorry bud--uncouth) detail. It's just a dam shame.

Material Question though:
Those of you who have come back, are you on BD DC's or older DC's? Can you please post the IP of the DC you're looking at?

Thanks

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 1:17 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>Those of you who have come back, are you on BD DC's or older DC's? Can you please post the IP of the DC you're looking at?

652 pages on 64.233.179.104 which appears to be a BD DC. I had been showing around 200 just two days ago.

On 66.102.9.99 I am showing 1,021 pages, which appears to be a non-BD center.

gcc_llc

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 1:55 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

I came back on mostly non-BD dc's, then have it completely disappear again 2 hours later. As of now almost all the dc's have supp results. Only a few non-bd dc's are showing all the pages.

Supp hell, to almost full recovery, back to supp hell. Pretty frustrating after you spend so much time trying to make your site better.

newwebster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 2:26 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

I just checked and I am about 97% recovered for pages missing. Hope everyone else can come back as well as I have in the next few days.

Dawg

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 2:56 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

652 pages on 64.233.179.104 which appears to be a BD DC. I had been showing around 200 just two days ago.

On 66.102.9.99 I am showing 1,021 pages, which appears to be a non-BD center.

I can confirm that. The same with my sites... Unfortunately no pages have yet come back on 64.233.179.104 but 66.102.9.99 is more complete...

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 3:08 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Try this form of search

site:example.com "example.+com/"

and compare it to:

site:example.com

As of today, a site jut went to a brief list of supplementals for the first search, but notrmally listed (in no order) for the other.

A sign of something, but other than "google is buggered", who knows a sign of what.

kurtpdx

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 3:48 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

steveb-

What sort of result were you getting with that query prior to today? I ran the similar query on my domain and it showed my primary url up top where it belongs, without the "domain.+com/" the primary url is buried in supplementals. Unfortunately I can't go back in time and run this query last week to see what it would have produced.

Swanson

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 3:59 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Is it me or is this whole big daddy episode absolutely bizarre.

There are fundamental problems with this new index, that is clear. But why did Google release this info to the webmaster community through forums like this asking for feedback - and then all but put the thing live on so many of their data centres?

If you look at what this forum has been reduced to - every post is about "my large site was there an hour ago but now only the home page is listed" type derivatives. To make matters worse all that anyone (including moderators) is to say "?" or "see what happens" - because optimising for Google is totally irrelevant, at the moment it is trying to keep your home page in the actual index that is dominating everyones minds.

Could you imagine if this was the MSN beta testing last year - they would have never been able to launch. We all criticise MSN and friends for inadequate crawling or spammy results - we don't ever mention that the search engine couldn't even work out which was the home page of the website (10 years later and Google still can't and so releases new infrastructure that not only can't but kills the rest of the site too!)

So, in the meantime small businesses are crippled and we have one or two posts from Googleguy during the whole of this "feedback" stage asking for a few emails because "I think I know what it is" - excellent, one guy has an idea about a large scale problem that employs thousands of people whose sole job is to make the search thingy work!

Anyway, the key here is that we are webmasters at this forum - first before users. So the key issue is that webmasters are getting hit - and all those other guys who have websites that aren't webmasters are getting hit too - I don't care right now if the SERPS look good for users for a particular search phrase. Take out a thousand (no, tens of thousands) websites with a bug, there are still thousands more relevant enough for the search results to look ok.

To me its rubbish, not good enough - simple fix is to turn off big daddy and put it into a private address that webmasters like ourselves can test without putting the thing live.

As far as we are on now the problems don't seem to even have been identified at their end never mind fixed.

Anyway, relevance to the topic - i notice that more data centres seem to have non daddy results. Maybe they get the message?

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 4:59 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Prior to today site:example.com "example.+com/" showed more or less ordered results with regularly indexed pages, while site:example.com showed non-ordered results with regularly indexed pages.

colin_h



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 9:01 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Is anyone else seeing sites like <edit> who use caches and autoforwarding techniques to pinch your content, getting higher listings for established keyphrases.

I've checked them out and asked them to remove my details and all they say is that it's not illegal and there's nothing they can do.

They've even copied google!

Cheers

Col :-)

[edited by: tedster at 3:20 pm (utc) on Mar. 15, 2006]
[edit reason] No specifics please [/edit]

smokeybarnable

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 1:51 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yeah my site is 60% back on 66.102.9.99 but not the others.

drall

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 1:52 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

This is starting to get old, after being in supp hell for weeks now and watching a competitor to this forum go supp then whine and be out of supp hell in less then a couple days.

I mean it really doesnt bother me that they goofed, that part happens and I can understand that but to sit here week after week watching by-my-cheap-viaagraaa.com sites blow away all our rankings and pages with our own content they scraped from us and our content is still gone less a pr 7 homepage that doesnt rank well, a man can only take so much!

Ellio

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 1:57 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

[66.102.9.99...] is not big Daddy.

trinorthlighting

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 2:05 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think the issue is with the newer googlebot that came out last year. Seems as if google is chasing their own tails. Relevancy for searching is still terrible.

Wally_Books

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 3:42 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm seeing no improvement, most pages supplemental and BD speading to other centers

texasville

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 3:58 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Well.I keep reading about sites with 10000's of pages that have gone supplemental. I have a small site, 32 pages, that for some time google has had a problem indexing and showing. It's a online site for a brick and mortar widgets store.
I have 10 pages devoted to content about safety and usage of these products. These are the pages that have problems still. All but one are supplemental. Last week my tos page and privacy page came out of supplemental.
If I do site:www.example - I get 26 of 28 pages. If I click on "repeat the search with omitted.." I see another of the content pages show. And one page marked as supplemental that has 404'd for months.

If I do site:example then I get 28 of 30 and when I click on "repeat..." two more of my content "supplemental" pages appear that weren't in the other search.

Seems google won't include the other content pages no matter what.

Just thought you would get another perspective on a smaller scale.
btw...301 in place for 7 months..all titles, metas different. Did have the same last two footer paragraphs on every content page but recently deleted them when gg talked about adjusting robots.txt to omit paragraphs..

Ellio

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 5:08 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>when gg talked about adjusting robots.txt to omit paragraphs<<<<

Can anybody point me to thhis post or give further details please?

texasville

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 6:07 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Ellio- it isn't something that works yet. It is something google might work on if there was enough interest by webmasters. Don't remember where I saw this mentioned but it was either here on ww or in matt cutt's blog.
It told me that there could be a penalty if there was the same footer on every page.

Wally_Books

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 6:19 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

I just did a search for one of my keywords and I found:

50403000000050a05026f6f6b63700000010d6a0104700000010f5a0904747031363834323330000001036a020... - 56k - Cached - Similar pages

No header, the cache is an amazon search, why are my pages supplemental and pure garbage from amazon isn't? Of course amazon comes up 1st in just about every search

Ellio

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 6:31 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>Ellio- it isn't something that works yet. It is something google might work on if there was enough interest by webmasters. Don't remember where I saw this mentioned but it was either here on ww or in matt cutt's blog.
It told me that there could be a penalty if there was the same footer on every page. <<<<

Thanks Texasville,

That would be crazy as sites like ours HAVE to have an identical regulatory statement and copyright etc at the foot of every page!

This applies to all financial web sites.

Armi

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 7:07 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Somebody wrote on Matt Cutts Blog:

[mattcutts.com...]

Ross Said,
March 14, 2006 @ 7:48 pm

Rahul - the supplemental results issue is definitely a google bug which they are fixing. I was lucky enough to speak to a google rep at the Search Engine Room conference in Sydney yesterday and he confirmed this for me.

Unfortunately you do just have to sit it out!

dethfire

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 8:00 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

one of my forums is still supp and caches old as 2004!

my other site that is a directory is out of supp, but google seems to have indexed 100s of pages that simply do not exist

texasville

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 8:10 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>>Unfortunately you do just have to sit it out!<<<<

Excuse me...seems this is true but didn't they all say that this was coming to conclusion by mid-March? Well, today is the 15th and no end in sight for any of the problems they were supposed to be addressing.

So, when are they going to give up on big daddy and try something else?

Or at least give us an update. Their self imposed deadline is here.

JuniorOptimizer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 8:24 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

There's no way to wait for a third party to fix a problem. That's goes beyond frustrating to self-destructive.

My attitude once one of my sites get infected by something in Google is to literally forget about it because Google will take as much time as they want.

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 10:34 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Unfortunately you do just have to sit it out!"

Of course that is just nonsense talk. Pay no attention to it. Supplementals have been around for years now. Obviously they won't be around fifty years from now, but "sitting toght" waiting for them to control their fundamental data problems is idiotic (not that you can do much about it...).

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 10:52 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Its wishful thinking....

One step forward...three steps back!

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 11:23 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

[66.102.9.99...] is not big Daddy.

Elio - do you know what this DS doing is doing in relation to BD?

nedguy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 11:26 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Unfortunately you do just have to sit it out!"

hmm... sounds familiar. Where have I heard that advice before?

Let's see. On any one of a dozen threads on every seo forum every day since the pre-jagger fall out half a year ago.

Sometimes I feel like the child in the crowd waiting for the emperor in his new clothes. All the adults are saying how marvelous Google is and any moment we are going to see it revealed in its full and magnificent glory...

and I'm thinking 'no we're not! It's busted. It's been busted for a while and there's absolutely no sign they are going to be able to fix it anytime soon.'

Go home folks. Nothing to see here. You're wasting your time. Come back next year.

smokeybarnable

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 11:32 pm on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have thought alot about it and i think the answer is 42. Hope that helps.

HappyIan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 1:18 am on Mar 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

Couple of questions:

1) Has anyone at Google 100% confirmed that this is considered a Google bug? It seems that neither of Google Guy's posts in the last four days come right out and say that?

2) Assuming this is a permanent situation, has anyone found a way to manually bring their pages out of a supplemental status? From what I'm reading it seems that "supplemental" is an almost permanent state once the tag has been applied.

Thanks in advance.

walkman



 
Msg#: 33595 posted 3:08 am on Mar 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

are they targeting sites with sitewide templates? I'm curious to see if there is a connection

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