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Big puzzle, number of pages indexed drops quickly
Lanuched on Nov 16, 2005, PR now is 2, live PR is 7
Aimee




msg:710722
 7:20 am on Mar 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

But the indexed amount is dropping, on DC 64.233.179.104, it only index 3 pages now, and before it reached 256,000.
DC 72.14.207.104 it only 456 pages.

Pls help how can I do now? how to explain this to my boss?

 

tedster




msg:710723
 8:22 am on Mar 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Tell your boss that Google is introducing a new infrastructure and they're having trouble with the data -- with a capital "T". Check out the threads here about Big Daddy, the "Supplemental Club", Data Center Watch in particular. There are very widespread problems at the moment, so you are not alone and in all likelihood, you didn't cause it.

Still, it can't hurt to work your way through these threads about site issues that sometimes cause trouble:

Checklist for Sudden Drops in Rank [webmasterworld.com]
Dropped from Google - a checklist to find out why [webmasterworld.com]
Dropped Site Checklist [webmasterworld.com]

As for the immediate problems, we are in Google's hands -- no one has a good handle on this right now.

Aimee




msg:710724
 9:24 am on Mar 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Nothing can do, just wait?
when will the big daddy run well?

Dayo_UK




msg:710725
 10:33 am on Mar 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Intresting - it looks like your site is hijacked in Non-Big Daddy but in Big Daddy the hijack looks like it may have been resolved.

Why pages are dropping in Big Daddy and not Non-Big Daddy I dont understand.....it would have made more sense the other way around.

Dayo_UK




msg:710726
 10:56 am on Mar 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>>Why pages are dropping in Big Daddy and not Non-Big Daddy I dont understand.

Oops - sorry should say aswell. When Big Daddy seems to be handling the hijack correctly.

Also you may want to consider redirecting non-www to www as both the domain.com and the domain.com homepages are appearing.

Aimee




msg:710727
 12:42 am on Mar 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

Also you may want to consider redirecting non-www to www as both the domain.com and the domain.com homepages are appearing.

Can it be helpful?

Aimee




msg:710728
 12:46 am on Mar 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

Plus, we run a google site map also. I don't know how can I do to resolve it, why does the google sitemap doesn't work? today to check site:domain name, only 3 pages indexed.

YoungWildandFree




msg:710729
 3:03 am on Mar 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

Happened to our site as well... but interestingly only the FORUM part and rest of the site, the index pages keep growing.

We had installed vbulletin sitemap and aftering running that for sometime noticed that FORUM pages were dropping(was 39000+ and now stays in area of 600s to 700s).

Aimee




msg:710730
 3:45 am on Mar 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

To give more details that anybody can help to give some suggestion.
My site, www.newexample.com is a new one, lanuched on Nov 2005, and www.oldexample.com is an old site, the oldexample site was use 301 redirect to newexample at the same time after new site lunched and till now.

some introduce the old site, it has PR 7, traffic is more then 40,000 dailly, google's refer is 50%, is an excellent and authority site. but it's sub-domain name, so we buy the newexample domain name.

yes, the new and old one are the same, so we use the 301 redirect. and we create a google site to push it to be indexed by SE.

What a pity, on the google site map account, I can see there are some 404 erro links here,

At present, the newexample site has a PR 2, and from some SEO tools, I can see its live PR is 7.

Question: its indexed pages are drop from 256,000 to 3 now.

Traffic drop to about 1,000 daily from Google.

How can I do?

It's the 301 redirect effect? or google sitemap? or others?

MasterG00gler




msg:710731
 3:50 am on Mar 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

That looks pretty much like this case:
[webmasterworld.com...]

Aimee




msg:710732
 3:53 am on Mar 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

PS: my site is a Chinese site.

and it seems not redirect process for the home page.
there are:
[newexample.com...]
[newexample.com...]
http://www.example.com/HOME.HTM

That would be another problem?

tedster




msg:710733
 10:07 am on Mar 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yes, that would be a different problem -- and one you can (and should) do something about yourself, rather than waiting for Google. Here's the thread to study:

[webmasterworld.com...]

Aimee




msg:710734
 12:42 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

But all the above status are also used on other old sites, and they perform very well, why for new domain name it would so bad?

Does SE knows 301 redirect very well? we use the 301 redirect from old site to new site.

tedster




msg:710735
 2:20 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

It can only help to check the setup and make sure it is what you think it is. Mistakes do happen, as well as misunderstandings, and search engines can be extremely literal about what your server tells them.

Your goal is to ensure that you have only one url for any page. A 301 redirect is fine, because before the page is served the url changes, and you can see that in the location bar. 302 redirect is NOT fine, even though the location in the address bar changes. 302 is a "temporary" and not a "permanent" redirect. It can be handled differently by search engines. So definitely check the server headers thoroughly for a variety of urls.

Here are some things you can check:

Do both the no-www and the with-www versions of the old site redirect with a 301?
Is it really a 301 and not a 302?
Do all the urls from the old site redirect or just the home page?
Do you use a custom error page for either domain?
If so does that page return a 404 header -- or is it a 200?
Does the no-www version of the old site 301 redirect to the with-www version?
If yes, on all pages or just the home page?
Do you link to the home page by using the domain name only, or do you use index.htm, home.asp or some other page name?
Do you do any click-path tracking in a query string, rather than with a cookie or webbug?
Are you using session ids in the url query string?
Are you doing any content negotiation and serving different content at the same url to different user?

Any of these things can cause excessive duplicate content issues and cause pages to vanish, over time.

Aimee




msg:710736
 3:05 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks Tedster,
Here are some things you can check:
Do both the no-www and the with-www versions of the old site redirect with a 301?

Yes, both with 301 redirect to new site.

Is it really a 301 and not a 302?

Yes.

Do all the urls from the old site redirect or just the home page?

Sure, all urls redirect.
Do you use a custom error page for either domain?

Yes.

If so does that page return a 404 header -- or is it a 200?

404

Does the no-www version of the old site 301 redirect to the with-www version?

Yes, to new site with www version.

If yes, on all pages or just the home page?

All pages.

Do you link to the home page by using the domain name only, or do you use index.htm, home.asp or some other page name?

Insite link to home.htm, but outsite(back link) link to domain name.

Do you do any click-path tracking in a query string, rather than with a cookie or webbug?

Yes.

Are you using session ids in the url query string?

Yes, we use session ids.

Are you doing any content negotiation and serving different content at the same url to different user?

No.
But we do google adwords and add a track code like?=google_adwords in the URL.

Any of these things can cause excessive duplicate content issues and cause pages to vanish, over time.

The session ids? well, if may. or the links to home page?
and the google sitemap doesn't value?

tedster




msg:710737
 4:07 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

My educated guess is that using session IDs in the query string is strangling your site. The adwords tracking code wouldn't do it, but the session id's would.

Find another way to do what you need to do for sessions -- cookies or some other method that does not require a different url for each session.

You also could replace in-site home page links with http://www.example.com/ -- instead of home.htm. This is probably not the cause of your pages vanishing, but it could help your home page PR. Even after you fix the session ID issue, your in site links as they are will mean that home.htm can accumulate its own PR, separate from http://www.example.com/ -- and fixing internal links will stop that split from happening. But as I said, this is quite secondary.

Swanson




msg:710738
 4:20 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

To me it sounds like canonical home page problems.

Linking internally to "home.htm" can cause the "duplicate content" problem. Google sees your domain name and the "home.htm" as 2 separate pages with duplicate content and/or can not disseminate the links from the domain name through the site as none of the internal pages link back to the root (the domain name). It sounds strange, because it is. But that is what the Big Daddy update is meant to be fixing, unfortunatley it seems to be making it worse.

Either way, linking all internal pages to the root domain and replacing session URLS with another form of session tracking like cookies would seem to be the best change you could make if any.

Swanson




msg:710739
 4:23 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Just read fully what tedster wrote - it seems I have a duplicate post issue! Anyway, do what he says, good advice!

tedster




msg:710740
 4:40 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

I just focused on something else you said:

My site, www.newexample.com is a new one, lanuched on Nov 2005, and www.oldexample.com is an old site

New domains, even with a 301 from an old domain, can take months to get their urls established in the Google index. This has been called the "Sandbox Effect" -- and before Big Daddy started to dominate this forum there were many, many, many threads about it. There is a chance this may also play out in the future of your new domain. Google is attempting to protect themselves from spamming by new, "disposable" domains.

Get any links you can to point to the new domain name, including some "deep" internal links. And other than that, continue to build quality in every way you can. It sounds like you've got lots of traffic and that should help make any sandbox effect you suffer relatively short.

Aimee




msg:710741
 5:32 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hello tedster,
Get any links you can to point to the new domain name, including some "deep" internal links

We get about 10 back links to this new site. most of their PR are 6-8, but still now track on Google, the new site's back link also zero, don't know why.

May I still need to deal with the session ids? and the home page?

Swanson




msg:710742
 5:44 am on Mar 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

Good spot tedster.

In summary all those things mentioned are the current hurdles to get in to Google - it highlights the issues that need to be looked at when addressing Google.

I would say sort all 3 things to be sure, but it is hard to say which one(s) are the cause - although de-ranking on new domains with full page counts in Google would more than likely be the sandbox, and drastic reduction in page counts could be the other issues.

Aimee




msg:710743
 9:23 am on Apr 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

From March 27, the homepage's PR jump to 7, and the indexed pages are 43,400, keep on grow, it gets 216,000 indexed pages on Apr 7, but then drop to 73,300 on Apr 8, today is Apr 17, it drop to 54 only.

I have correct the duplicate homepage already.

What happened? The PR update, and our site gets a good PR 7, but the indexed pages drop a huge.

FrostyMug




msg:710744
 5:58 pm on Apr 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

i'm also experiencing a huge drop in indexed pages, NOTHING is different for at least 6 months, except a site expansion about 4 months ago which never posed any problem. established site was/is doing great, in both adsense, google search, msn search and actually picking up steam in yahoo.

dropped from 250, down to 170, down to 150, now 120 :(

VERY bad, have no idea what's wrong.

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