To add to CainIV comments:
Each day an additional 3 or 4 datacenters (on average) has their PR updated. Some data centers may revert to old (for a few hours), but the general trend across all the datacenters is upwards.
Now to explain why all this appears to happen at randon.
Google does not only have multiple servers, but also multiple paths for each of it datasets, from a given server. Therefore each unique google server may access a different dataset (some with its PR updated some with old PR). So each time you access the same server, you may get different PR results.
So the only thing you can do, is perform statistical analysis, to know when the update is finished.
This will soon be over, for another 3 months. The fat lady has not sung, but she is warming up.
|Can someone answer that for us? If we have new sites that are starting to get PR does this mean we are coming out of the sandbox or might we be stuck in the sandbox for several more months? |
It's not related. Just recently one of my site has been released from sandbox after 15 months. It had PR2 a year ago, then PR3, and PR4 for last 5 months and now, and it was sandboxed despite the fact of having PR4.
I finally got PR on my site, although it had absolutelly no noticeable effect on traffic.
|Smashing Young Man|
|I finally got PR on my site, although it had absolutelly no noticeable effect on traffic. |
Remember, actual PR is updated continually - toolbar PR only every few months. As such, you won't notice any sort of miraculous boost when the toolbar PR finally reflects the actual PR.
|when the toolbar PR finally reflects the actual PR |
I think it never does. Exported tPR almost always is a bit outdated.
Is there really a reliable way to check live PR?
I've tried the tool from the <snip>, but I don't really know if that is a "trusted" tool among SEO experts. It is relatively new and I would greatly appreciate it if someone can tell me if I can trust the results.
Up until now, I've been using the <snip> hosted by another popular seo forum. The two tools are giving me consistently different results.
[edited by: bakedjake at 5:46 pm (utc) on Mar. 9, 2006]
[edit reason] specifics [/edit]
|What cannot be confirmed is that a PR update has taken place, as the PR of sites is jumping all over the place. |
Since this "update" started I have been checking the PR on 7 client sites that went online since last spring--According to the McDar PR tool which gives backlinks and PR all of them are slowly rising in PR across the data centers (some faster than others). Backlinks are not always updated on same datacenters so this appears to be a separate update. I've been checking each week and more and more data centers have the new PR. I'm assuming the delay is because of the BD update that won't be completed till mid march.
|I forgot to mention a major point, my index page has PR0 but all other pages are showing PR4. What does that indicate? |
Also when you submit your site for links if you want your home page to prosper point them to the home page. Sometimes people link to your inside pages and that could cause them to rise higher instead of the home page, but that shouldn't be a problem as it will boost your home page PR.
Other than links make sure your home page doesn't have any other problems, ie.., have you copied content from another site and make sure someone hasn't copied your home page. Also make sure you haven't linked to a bad neighborhood (check all outgoing links to make sure they haven't been bought by an adult site). I have seen both of these bring a site down.
For some reason my company has a site which will (not seen on toolbar yet) from PR0 on the homepage, and I have never found out why this phenomena occurs.
I don't think this is some kind of penalty because I have seen sites doing very well a few months after this type of injury...
If someone has more info...about PR0 homepages it is welcome...
|If someone has more info...about PR0 homepages it is welcome... |
I know of at least a couple of sites that had penalties on the home page only because of doorway pages installed by an SEO firm. The sites had a DMOZ / Google directory listings, but did not come up for searches in the Google directory even for their own names. If you looked at the category page the sites were in, they were sitting there at the bottom of the listings with no green bar. They had been about PR 5s or 6s.
When the doorway pages were deleted the PR on the home pages came back right away and the directory listings returned to normal within a few months. There are probably other reasons for PR0 on just the home page but this is the one reason I'm familiar with.
Whenever I think that the datacenters are starting to stablize, it goes back to old and out-of-date pr and results. Are we still in the middle of the pr update, or has that finished and now they are updating just BD?
Honestly I don't think anything is happening at the moment. Google is probably just testing BD still before they deploy it mid-March as MC has stated. I personally still don't believe we've had a PR update...rather a PR rollback.
I would agree with some sort of roll back in the serps but it cant also be a TBPR roll back. Many brand new sites recieved pr including my brand new pages. My inner pages were all 0 and are now a 3, but my homepage never changed on any datacenter from a 2. I have tracked a lot of "older" websites that got no change in homepage pr, but all inner pages. I just dont understand what kind of update google is throwing at us. I mean are we going to have to wait until April-May for another TBPR? (if were lucky)
This is not a rollback. New pages that did not exist prior to the new year are receiving PR.
Is google playing around with the PageRank again?
About 3 or 4 days ago Google gave my Homepage a PR4 and all my internal pages a 3.
I checked this morning my Homepage is still a PR 4 which is fine but all my internal pages now at 0.
Why would google (just 3 or 4 days ago) rank my internal pages a PR 3 and then change it back to a 0?
Is this BD testing or something? Or should I be alarmed?
Here's something odd -- we noticed a couple days ago that the new beta toolbar gives different PR numbers in some cases than the regular toolbar does. It also gives different numbers from the FireFox extensions I've checked. Not sure what's up with that.
I am in the UK, so results may be different, but I have noticed a large number of secondary/inner pages have increased in PR, and some that had no PR now have it. This has remained steady for some days now, on both TB4 and FF toolbar [both have the same readings].
I have also had a steady number of pages on both BD and classic SERP's for about 2 weeks now, with BD showing 60,000 more or less, and classic SERP's showing 820 pages. The site has some thousands of pages in total.
However, I have noticed that BD is struggling to index product pages. Traffic is fairly consistent throughout the week, with the odd day really high, and the odd day relatively low, but I guess this is par for the course. Mozilla robot has hit the site hard for some 2 months now.
This is not a rollback! I have a new website I put up last December and it is getting page rank. This is an update of PR in some of the data centers. That is why it fluxuates so much because it has not fully been expanded to all of googles data centers yet. It is spreading though. The google data centers switch back and forth a few times a day. That is why you see your pr at times and at other times you do not see any PR. If you went up, congrats! If you stayed the same or went down, you need to do some work.....
It seems that new PR is not being applied to any BD datacenters anymore... Also, many BD centers have been taken offline in the past 24 hours... Something's going on.
Intresting you have noted that.
In general I have also noticed that the updated PR is not being applied to the Big Daddy Datacenters - there are a couple of exceptions.
Just my experience. I noticed pr changes in my main site about 6-7 weeks ago. Many pages got pr for the first time. Some that had pr increased. Then I noticed a week later that it had rolled back. I checked the google directory and it reflected the highest of the new pr. (not the homepage)
Since then it has fluctuated back and forth a couple of dozen times.
But...I got this pr several weeks ago. No one else seemed to notice this.
My question is this...do I have another update coming I haven't seen yet or did I get a preview of what is happening now?
Has anyone seen any pr being assigned to your own google sitemap?
We have also had no less traffic even though our main pages are showing a PR of 0 and they were a PR of 3.
|It seems that new PR is not being applied to any BD datacenters anymore... |
We have different PR on the BD datacenters than on the more usual datacenters, though that PR shows up sporadically on the others. So for me PR is more up to date on the BD datacenters without a doubt.
|I think it never does. Exported tPR almost always is a bit outdated. |
Sorry if I disagree. PageRank is more important than EVER in the SERPs, we are just dealing with 2 different effects: News and Authority.
Of course there can be a mix of both, but for the Mom&Pop webmaster the "long term" ranking for certain keywords is important.
A bit complicated, but I think I am right, which I want to show in an example:
I see the same sites for "tough keywords" on AROUND the same spots for around 12 months now. All 50M+ result pages.
However, sometimes are new sites suddenly up on the first spots. 80% of the time they are gone after 4 weeks again. Not completely, but pushed to postition 50 or 200...
All these changes reflect the topics Hill-Top, "Sandbox" (sorry :-) and the factor time in ranking.
Means for me: you can rank for a tough keyword on page for within a few days, still. But if you want to be in the first 5 spots somewhere, you need the PageRank as one main factor.
Show me 1 URL that ranks #1 for "hard keyword", which has an actual Pagerank, which is lower than 2 points than postion 2...
You can be #1 for "hard keyword" with a PR5 and your next listing has PR7.... yes... but show me a steady (>4 weeks postion #1) for a PR4 with the second having a PR7 for more than 50M results and I do not mean for keywords "then but again download"...
The actual PageRank on the Toolbar might be a bit outdated in the day2day game, but an actual PR6 indicates something! Combined with the "long-term" rank for certain keywords we talk about successful sites here.
PageRank is as important as ever! You just need to check the ranking for the site you talk about.
In combination, PR and SERP position are a very very useful information!
I certainly agree that PageRank is one important factor, but I think the point was that toolbar PR is "outdated" not that PR itself is "unimportant".
Toolbar PR is always a historical snapshot compared to the "real" PR (calculated to many decimal places) that Google actually uses to create SERPs. Real PR is updated continually, but we see an updated snapshot on the toolbar every 3-4 months or so. From the instant that data is exported for the toolbar to reference, it begins to age.
Pagerank (internal) is an evaluation of links to a site that make the site rank successfuly, not the other way around. It is an effect, not a cause.
|It is an effect not a cause |
I wasn't going to post anything, but you got me on the philosophical hook there.
I'm not sure if I agree or disagree. So let's look at an example.
A smoker gets cancer. Cause = smoking. Effect = cancer
What is PR in this case? Maybe its the smokers "health"?
So then PR is neither cause nor effect. Its just a reflection of the condition of the site.
Then links are part of the equation which determines the "health" of the site. And being healthy helps you do well in the SEPRS "race".
Hmmm...I like that.
I agree PageRank is still important. Saying:
|Exported tPR almost always is a bit outdated. |
I meant that I suspect that tPR at the moment of the export is already a bit outdated. Tedster says:
|we see an updated snapshot on the toolbar every 3-4 months or so. From the instant that data is exported for the toolbar to reference, it begins to age |
and maybe he's right, but I thing the data may be a bit aged already at the moment of export.
Still, I agree PageRank has important effects on ranking, and, what's equally valuable, on crawling frequency and depth.
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