| 2:02 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
its all about evil business, commercial decision of google is shame for democratic world.
google is taking unfair advantage of liberties in democratic world for its commercial gain.
and being part of democracy, we can do nothing to stop google from doing such thing. just wishing google to shift its headquarter to china and then try to take decisions against communist policies ...... try it google try it .......Larry Page would be hanged.
| 2:03 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I don't subscribe to any political parties or groups but it does not seem "People's Republic of China" does not really stand for the people if they fear free speech in the form of the internet. This is where white-hat hackers could come in very handy. ;)
| 2:11 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Since the decision I've banned users from China from accessing some of my websites with informative educational and medical information. They are told exactly why I've done it as well, and a few home-truths about China and Tibet.
| 2:24 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Since the decision I've banned users from China from accessing some of my websites with informative educational and medical information. |
that is unfair to people of china, chineses govt and chinese public are 2 different sets. govt is privileged class and public is suppressed class. the best way to oppose this may be by giving links to dalai lama / tibet related sites and pasting a banner against this decision of google on our sites.
any one ready to volunteer to design a hard hitting? banner
| 3:56 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|I don't subscribe to any political parties or groups but it does not seem "People's Republic of China" does not really stand for the people if they fear free speech in the form of the internet. |
Perhaps the Chinese authorities have had enough of Western propaganda and lies about their system?
"Free speech" is all well and good, but what you may find is it equates to unrestricted, misleading, advertising by global corporations for their won profitable ends.
| 4:05 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
You are seriously claiming that the the advertising in the West is comparable to decades of governmnet suppression of information and overall oppression of any group of people which disagrees with the governmnet?
Have you seen what they do to religious groups like Falun Gong? There's photos of this stuff all over Hong Kong. It's not even close to a little "pursuasive advertising"...
Just my opinion.
| 4:44 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Falun Gong is not a religion. Its a form of exercise (physical and mental).
Why the Government of China is against people getting physically and mentally fit, is beyond me.
| 6:53 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Now We Can Say Google is Purely Money Machine.
It seems people requires Google but Google Needs Only Money from people.
| 7:09 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Why the Government of China is against people getting physically and mentally fit, is beyond me. |
It's easy: if people are physically and mentally fit, then they have more power, and that would hurt the government. (Just opining)
|Now We Can Say Google is Purely Money Machine. |
It seems people requires Google but Google Needs Only Money from people.
The fun fact is that my site's income comes entirely from google, through AdSense. So, people requires Google, Google requires money from people, and some people get money from Google. As I said, it's a fun fact :P
| 7:47 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Google is participating as an agent of the Chinese government's propaganda machine.
| 8:51 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I think Google adhering to a governmental decision is less about Google being evil and more about China suppresing information.
I bet you'd roll around in the mud if the Chinese government was going to give you a big wad of $$$
| 9:14 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Gee, and I thought we weren't supposed to discuss politics here. If that rule has changed, I'd like to post some thoughts on George Bush. :-)
| 9:17 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
SEO to me is always half politics ;)
| 9:28 pm on Feb 14, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Name one major US company that does not do business in China for political reasons?
Any in the S&P 500?
I am not saying there aren't any - just want to know who it is - they are.
Any company in China must follow chinese law.
Every company that deals with news, data, telecommunication, or search MUST censor. It is the law.
If they do not do business in China - then they will not be there when China turns around.
I wonder what the majority of CHINESE want. I bet they would want Google there. They know the situation - most Chinese (at least from my understanding) don't think the situation will last forever.
Google is no different than any other Search Engine in China. There is an army of what some suspect is like 30,000 according to what I read -- of government agents - akin to our NSA intercepting and quashing text messages, forums, blogs, and what not.
You want to be seen in China - you play by their rules.
Google is not alone.
| 1:57 am on Feb 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Interesting idea to ban users from China and put out some propaganda of our own. I think I'll try that.
I didn't realise about the Google boycott in time either, so I shall pause the Adwords account for a day instead and let them know why.
>that is unfair to people of china, chineses govt and chinese public are 2 different sets. govt is privileged class and public is suppressed class.
Thats what people used to say about South Africa.
| 2:05 am on Feb 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Name one major US company that does not do business in China for political reasons? |
I'm not sure that naming names is a good thing, but I once worked for a very large retailer that imports the bulk of its widgets from China. S&P500? I really don't know. Major political donors? Absolutely.
I don't agree with censorship, as a rule. I'm not going to point at Google with any particular finger over this move. It's very clear that they see a future in China, and they are positioning themselves for that future. It's a business decision, one that unfortunately carries extra baggage. If I could follow suit with my product I would.
| 2:34 am on Feb 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
It is well known that China blocks numerous western sites out of political concerns. For example, abut a month ago, I received an email about a possible blocking of a USA university site by China. It was a certain page of the University of Georgia. The lady in question asked me to help them to sort out if the page is blocked.
After some research, I found that the page was not blocked, although many pages of the UGA were.
During my research, I noticed that thousands of USA sites are actively filtered/blocked by China many of which are educational (university) sites.
There is a site that is dedicated to evaluating and investigating such possible blocks:
They maintain a huge list of websites/pages currently blocked by China, and they offer free services to inspect potential blocks.
It is too sad that G joined the China government by helping them to filter out more sites.
| 3:57 am on Feb 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Falun Gong is not a religion. Its a form of exercise (physical and mental).Why the Government of China is against people getting physically and mentally fit, is beyond me. |
Because you know little about fa lun gong. Fa lun gong is a cult. Shall I remind you the fact of Branch Davidian?
| 5:39 am on Feb 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
No one seems to have mentioned the very obvious fact that Google could not have operated in China AT ALL if they hadn't agreed to the government's demands.
They are not helping the Chinese government supress free speech. They are victims of said supression.
Their other option was to withdraw their efforts in China completely which just doesn't make sense. Instead they will go along with things until they change, which may not be long.
Google has made a huge number of concessions to the US's own laws about the internet, no one was breaking out the torches then?
| 6:01 am on Feb 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I could not agree more with EFT's comment.
|Gee, and I thought we weren't supposed to discuss politics here. If that rule has changed, I'd like to post some thoughts on George Bush. :-) |
Does nobody find it slightly strange that the ones making the most noise about the Censorship are in or from the West and who have probably never even set foot in the country for any length of time if at all?
This whole thing is purely because the West wants access to China, and the minds of its citizens, the next major Super Power.
As with Africa, we have learnt that unless there is something to be gained (ie oil) then it is all too easy to look the other way.
Whose propaganda is G censoring anyway.
| 11:20 am on Feb 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Among those search companies, I think Google do the best on this. At least it notices about the censorship on the query pages.
| 2:13 pm on Feb 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Because you know little about fa lun gong. Fa lun gong is a cult. Shall I remind you the fact of Branch Davidian? |
I have studied cults(psychology) and what they are all about for a period of over a year.
I have also studied Falun Gong Teachings for two years.
There are no similarities whatsoever between Falun Gong Teachings and Branch Davidians.
On the contrary.Falun Gong practitioners are the most kind and openhearted life - loving people i ever met.
Google the word "cult".You will find a set of definitions.None of them match Falun Gong.
| 12:25 am on Feb 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
For years I have read posts about so-called ethical SEO, tempered by the fatherly advice/and or musings by SE representative on fair practises, right or wrongs etc... vis-a-vis their product.
Yahoo and Google have illustrated with China that clearly this game is about money not ethics or morals.
It always was.
I have always felt their is only one type of SEO, that which works. Everything else at best was just PR or at worst propaganda.
| 2:58 pm on Feb 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Falun Gong seems to be about as dangerous as yoga, and trying to label it a cult won't change that. Their main crime seems to be they aren't communists.
Whats a cult anyway? A small band of people who believe in something you dissapprove of? In that case theres a nasty cult downstairs from me believes playing REM all day at full volume is a good idea.
Google, by the way are always tinkering about making social judgements when it suits them. I'm particularly annoyed by their alcohol policy. The working class drinks like beer and whiskey are verboten in Adwords, but let me hazard a guess here and say they are a lot of wine drinkers in the Googleborgplex?
Just because theres a wad of cash to be made kowtowing to the Chinese regime doesn't make what Google has done OK, and what Yahoo did with that journalist is beyond belief!
Anyone who doesn't like it can vote with their wallet like I did, to the extent they can afford. When elected politicians spout worthy sentiments, then go behaving like middle management for the big corporations, denying their bosses your business then letting them know why is a fine way to bring about social change. And why shouldn't we tinker in politics? Google and Yahoo do.
| 3:58 pm on Feb 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
While Falun Gong has these good points:
1. tell people the right to vote its own government
2. reveal the communists' wrongdoings
3. it's a good exercise
It is also a cult
1. it tells people to believe in Falun's superpower, saying that if you believe it, you do not need see doctor when you are sick (borrowed from bible that Jesus can cure people with his touch)
2. It claimes it is higher than Muslim and Christian, claiming mohamad is his subset.
3. The Muslim world does not recognize it as a legal religion. They must some have some reasons.
4. They Falun followers worship its leader Li, just as workship Jesus. Trying to glorify him as God and Superhuman.
and recite his book like Bible.
Do not confuse Falun with Qigong, QiGong has been in China for many hundreds years if not thousands, and people have been practice QiGong since old times.
Falun is borrowing most of its practice from QiGong and can be classified as a branch of QiGong, if without its religion color.
So you see, not allowing Falun, does not mean not allowing QiGong. Millions of people in China still pratice QiGong, especially the elders, you can see them practice everywhere, in the park, home, playfield...and QiGong is good for health.
To summarize, Falun is a mixture of QiGong with Religion (borrowed from Christian or Muslim). It is indeed good at pointing out China's current political system (one party dictateship). and it may help make China become more demacratic. But it is also behind just an exercise. It is cult, It is religion. and It is some Politics. It is more complicated than regular people think.
| 7:00 pm on Feb 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I am curious how many people who are criticizing Google have decided to no longer do any business with Google. I saw only one post about someone pausing their AdWords for one day. What a blow against the machine. If you believe that Google really is evil for following the Chinese government's dictates, then you should no longer do any business with Google whatsoever, including removing your site from their search engine. Leaving it in there means you are benefiting from their practices, including their caving to censorship.
After I found out how easily people in China circumvent this censorship, I thought this was a tempest in a teapot.
In the US, of course, we have no censorship, which is why we can feel so free to look down on China and the rest of the world and give them what for. That's why the press can show any pictures and tell any stories whatsoever they want about the war in Iraq instead of having to be embedded, better known as caving to military censorship. Oh, wait--we DO have censorship here, but it's okay. I mean, the whole thing about the military having the right to prevent any reportage about Iraq they feel like is just about protecting our troops. Just because the press was able to say whatever they wanted during Vietnam doesn't mean they should do that now. I mean, if they could write or show whatever, people might be even more against the war than they already are, and our government wouldn't like that. Freedom of speech can only go so far. Sometimes censorship is good. It is if our guys do it, anyway, but not if Google or China does it.
Gee, maybe the NSA can teach the Chinese how to close up those gaps in their firewall, eh?
| 7:59 pm on Feb 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I am very very disturbed by reports and pictures of Falun
Gong practitioners being killed tortured and raped by Chinese government officials.
I was told that the number of Falun Gong practitioners
has reached 100,000,000.This surpasses the number of members of the Communist party.This fact has the Communist Party very worried....and very jealous....
They decided thus to exterminate Falun Gong.
| 11:03 pm on Feb 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|I was told that the number of Falun Gong practitioners has reached 100,000,000.This surpasses the number of members of the Communist party.This fact has the Communist Party very worried....and very jealous.... |
That's because the Communist Party in China, althougth they control the government, they no longer control the hearts and minds of its citizen's.
And while we are on politics, yes I do wish that DC would take GB hunting more often :)