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This 134 message thread spans 5 pages: < < 134 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 > >     
Google Datacenters Watch 2006-02-06
Observations, Analysis and Remarks
speedshopping




msg:750104
 10:07 am on Feb 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

< continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

has anyone noticed when on Big Daddy DC you do a site: command on your site it brings back a number.

Ok now refresh countless times and you will notice it flips to another number.

My site is currently switching between 850 pages and 420,000!

Any ideas anyone?

[edited by: tedster at 10:41 pm (utc) on Feb. 6, 2006]

 

colin_h




msg:750164
 10:35 pm on Feb 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've logged AOL.co.uk as showing BD results 5 times during the day. From around 2pm onwards I've spotted this change and Google rarely extend their new serps to contracted addresses unless there's a change on the way ...

Best wishes to all

Col :-)

reseller




msg:750165
 10:56 pm on Feb 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Good evening Folks

Matt "Inigo" Cutts has been very active lately in replying to several comments posted on his blog.

Don't know whether you have noticed Matt's comment of yesterday regrding the expected PR update in relation to BigDaddy:

"Ben, I donít know and it wouldnít matter. No idea when the next toolbar PageRank update is. Iím guessing that the Bigdaddy changes might cause the PageRank update to come later."

[mattcutts.com...]

Good night and God bless.

RichTC




msg:750166
 11:37 pm on Feb 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Colin,

Just seen the same at AOL with BD feeding it. I have to say i was amazed how good it was!

Not used the AOL search before as i thought it was EXACTLY the same as Google.

For "UK only" search results, has it always just been .co.uk sites only without any .coms showing unless you use the "whole of the web" search?, or is that a new thing?

Miop




msg:750167
 2:49 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

A quick question for all those with home pages which refuse to rank - do you have dead pages redirecting to the home page (thus returning a 200 ok header)?

colin_h




msg:750168
 3:04 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>> For "UK only" search results, has it always just been .co.uk sites only without any .coms showing unless you use the "whole of the web" search?, or is that a new thing? <<<<

I think it has always been that way, but I'm not completely positive.

eyezshine




msg:750169
 3:32 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

I am seeing short 30 minute bursts of traffic to my new sites that are indexed in big daddy. Sure can not wait for BD to spread because I am really doing well with my new sites.

I will make around 10 times what I was making when this thing goes live.

Atomic




msg:750170
 5:24 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

I will make around 10 times what I was making when this thing goes live.

I am seeing some similar increases in traffic although I can't help but think there will be more to this story than BD as it is now spreading to all datacenters. My older sites and newer ones are either doing as well as the older sites or they are only partially indexed and suffering.

Whatever's coming will be more of the pleasing some, killing others Google we have come to know and love.

colin_h




msg:750171
 7:51 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>> I will make around 10 times what I was making when this thing goes live. <<<<

Unfortunately more traffic doesn't always bring proportionate rewards. Sometimes it just brings spammers looking to see how they can steal your position and a lot of wasted bandwidth.

After I got wiped out in June last year, I did a complete rewrite and had a good cleanout of old pages that I'd never dared to delete. I now have just 300 pages and about 10% of bandwidth usage ... but the income is up on the previous year.

Sometimes it does pay to clean up your act and comply with the system. I dread to think how many wasted hours I spent dreaming up fancy ways of getting more hits ... a total waste of life ;-)

All the Best

Col :-)

colin_h




msg:750172
 7:56 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi Reseller,

It sounds as if PR is going to be a whole lot less important after the introduction of the Big Daddy infrastructure. Positively Orthogonal Man ;-)

Have a Danish brand coffee on me

All the Best

Col :-)

MLHmptn




msg:750173
 7:58 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)


Sometimes it does pay to clean up your act and comply with the system. I dread to think how many wasted hours I spent dreaming up fancy ways of getting more hits ... a total waste of life ;-)

And I think you have every member of WebMasterWorld with you on that note!

Tweak here, Tweak there....DAMN..My rank dropped and I thought it was supposed to increase!? :>~

*Scratching Head*

But anyway......

Google I love you long time! Give me Big Daddy and a PR update! Both are well overdue!

reseller




msg:750174
 8:12 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

colin_h

>>Hi Reseller,

It sounds as if PR is going to be a whole lot less important after the introduction of the Big Daddy infrastructure. Positively Orthogonal Man ;-)<<

Good morning to you Colin

I guess the folks at the plex want to be sure that everything is infunction and as desired on BigDaddy before deploying new PR, BL and possibly improvements as to canonical issue etc..

>>Have a Danish brand coffee on me <<'

Thanks. Always coffee first followed by Cappuccino ;-)

Dayo_UK




msg:750175
 9:27 am on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>>It sounds as if PR is going to be a whole lot less important after the introduction of the Big Daddy infrastructure.

A lot of people would already say it has little importance.

However, what goes on behind the scenes that eventually gets displayed as PR is of more intrest to me - eg BL data and the fundamental ranking of the sites - in a lot of ways this come out as a rather pointless green bar that is always out of date - but the same factors that generate the PR bar are likely to generate rankings in serps etc.

Now I am still unclear whether the rankings/bl data and then obv internal PR as determined by Mozilla Googlebot has been applied.

If not then I think when these rankings get applied there will be huge changes.

If this data has already been applied then Google have largely failed in the correction of Canonical/hijack issues at this stage - it is not just about being able to identify the correct page but to correctly rank it.

MC comments again seem to indicate that PR and therefore the background data that goes into this figure is still up in the air a bit while BD is deployed.

g1smd




msg:750176
 2:29 pm on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hmmm, my #8 result (for last 3 years) in google.com keeps dropping to #400 or #500 (over last few weeks), but remains at #7 in BigDaddy. Today in the normal (is there such a thing?) Google results it isn't in the first 1000 results (but is still in the index when the search is refined). It is still #7 in BigDaddy.

Results: 120 million in Google and 220 million in BigDaddy.

[edited by: g1smd at 2:37 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2006]

BillyS




msg:750177
 2:34 pm on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

g1smd -

After making a comeback in Google last Friday, I've got a similar problem. For most keywords, I actually rank better in BigDaddy than "normal" SERPs, however I've got over 1,000 pages in the "normal" index and only 300 in BigDaddy. If that doesn't change, I will slowly lose traffic as BigDaddy spreads.

bobmark




msg:750178
 7:12 pm on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

On PR, isn;t it likely its a case of PR already having chnged related to BD but not displaying?

What I mean is: my site was PR0'd in jagger. SERP's dropped from top 10 to the 1,000 level. In BD right now I am top 5 (hoping that holds for sure!). Is that possible if PR is still zero? It would mean Google has totally abandoned PR and seems to me more likely PR has been adjusted but is only available internally for now.

Doesn't that make sense?

NoLimits




msg:750179
 8:21 pm on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

I followed BD for the first couple months... but this has gotten rediculous.

Has Google grown so large in terms of index size and data mining that they are incapable of making an even remotely efficient transition into new SERP results?

Perhaps this is the limitation of Google's technology. We can always expect them to have the best results - a year later.

I'm hanging up my DC Watching hat. I'm just going to do what I do... make sites, and write content... become an expert in business smart niches - and let happen what does in regards to the SERPS and how they consume it.

It's really gotten to be a joke. It seems as though they have coded themselves into a hole, and their new BD infrastructure didn't pan out as planned... where is the direction.

Stop playing with damned play-dough and snacking at the free snack room and get your asses to work Google. With your stock taking a huge <dive>, perhaps you should stop spending so foolishly and focus on the prize - no not the one at the bottom of the cracker jack box.

2006 is going to be a bad year for Google. Mark my words.

[edited by: tedster at 9:27 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2006]
[edit reason] language [/edit]

outland88




msg:750180
 10:22 pm on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

In BD today I'm seeing a lot of old spam returning and a batch of new spam working it's way up in my areas. At least with the old spam it was over-optimization. Some of the new stuff I can't figure how it got there.

Well I look for things to be ironed out sometime around the "seventh of never".

followgreg




msg:750181
 10:41 pm on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)


Hohoho 64.233.167.99 might be the one you see the old fashion spammy stuff :)

It's my default Google.com and jeezzz good old spam is back on track and homepages are missing again ....
Default pages indexed are 11,330,000,000 weird stuff my friends.

Hey Guys at googleplex, did you break something while working on BD or what :)? Someone forgot to make a backup of the good algo set?

frakilk




msg:750182
 12:59 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

I don't know whether this question has been asked yet but why are the SERPs on BD and non-BD datacenters so different?

Komodo_Tale




msg:750183
 1:32 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Because BigDaddy is a Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. . .
Seriously, it is because BigDaddy is a new infrastructure (new algorithm) that Google is putting the finishing touches on and replacing the current infrastructure with. Google Mark IV.

This is conjecture:
Think about an old blackboard with a complex math equation on it. Now think of this as all the things Google uses to calculate the SERPS. For years now this equation has gotten bigger and bigger as new variables, and new ways of analyzing those variables, are added to the equation. At some point you can no longer go back to the old algebra book and simplify the equation. It becomes just too unwieldy to add new technology and knowledge without revisiting or screwing-up what you already have, so it makes more sense to rebuild the equation from scratch.

Here is a tidbit:
Did you know that Google has a special front end that their engineers use to instantly see how a website fits into their algorithm? If you listen to the this WebMaster Radio show
[media.webmasterradio.fm...]
you can listen as Matt Cutts uses this front end.

outland88




msg:750184
 3:22 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

>Did you know that Google has a special front end that their engineers use to instantly see how a website fits into their algorithm?<

I've often speculated they did this heavily since Florida update. Problem is they seem to make re-alignments based upon the top ten sites. After that point they could care less about undoing their ranking mistakes on other sites.

Dayo_UK




msg:750185
 9:18 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

bobmark

Yes, that does make sense for your site.

However, the Google xml query is showing PR for sites that have long been PR0 - but these rankings have not improved.

It is difficult to know for sure.

BD could be using current PR as used on the other DCs.

BD could be using pre-jagger PR - as was in place when BD was first in development

or

BD could be using new PR as calculated by Mozilla Googlebot.

locoblade




msg:750186
 9:28 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Not sure if anyone else is seeing this but, I have some pages that for a long time have PR0. When i search for the page and view it from the serps still PR0 then i look at Google cache and we have PR2.

Dayo_UK




msg:750187
 9:29 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

locoblade

That PR2 page refers to the Google page that displays your cache - not your site.

locoblade




msg:750188
 9:32 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Cheers Dayo, that solves that.

MLHmptn




msg:750189
 9:45 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WebMasterWorld locoblade! You will learn plenty here!

locoblade




msg:750190
 10:27 am on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

when looking at 64.233.179.104 in my vertical the first page of results is full of link spam websites, yet when looking at a non big daddy dc 72.14.207.104 i see real clean non link spam results. On both dc's my sute does well i.e first or second page results. It seems as though Google has discovered an ability to get the crap to float to the top hopefully.

With suggestions that PR will lose its importance i agree especially on secondary pages within a site, ive been getting low PR pages to rank well on fairly competitive phrases

ansible




msg:750191
 12:18 pm on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Dayo,
A while back, when I brought up that I thought the google xml query's <RK> tag might be indicating PR, did we ever verify that? That was the question I asked, but I wasn't sure if anyone ever found out if it were true or not. When checking up, I found this page:

[code.google.com...]

Down towards the bottom of the page, you'll find this excerpt:

RK
Format Text (Integer in the range 0-10)
Sub-Tags
Definition Provides a general rating of the relevance of the search result

This doesn't specifically indicate PR, but eludes to it. Is anyone sure the <RK> tag specifically refers to PR?

Dayo_UK




msg:750192
 12:25 pm on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

ansible

I am not 100% sure - although the <rk> tag has been discussed on some forums and has been accurate in prediciting the forthcoming displayed PR in the past.

There are also some tools that use the <rk> tag as future page rank indicators.

It looks like a pretty good indicator to me.

One strange thing I have noticed is that sometimes supplimentals can get a <rk> of 10 - obv this is wrong on the PR scale we know - but it could be that supplimentals are on a different scale.

Looking at Google:-

[64.233.171.99...] (link wont work in opera - ok in IE)

Those RK values look pretty much on the mark to me, although there are some differences - eg the odd page shows a RK of 7 and TBPR is 6 - but then TBPR is always out of date.

bobmark




msg:750193
 6:29 pm on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks, Dayo_UK - interesting coment.

I guess I will see what the reality is if the current situation holds (#5 for competitive search term across Google, 3 in BD - man am I begging this holds with fingers crossed!).

The other factor with me is I did do a ton of work on the site (site was never banned but just plummeted in SRERPs and went PR0) so its hard to tell how much is BD and how much is simply that I fixed whatever Google didn't like so ranking would have risen regardless.

The fact that I am showing the 5 spot in the Google main but still PR0 does suggest that PR must have returned (even tho I can't see it yet) as its seems impossible to believe Google would simply abandon the whole concept of PR.

Hissingsid




msg:750194
 7:47 pm on Feb 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi,

Where have all the fresh tags gone on BD?

SSSid

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