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This 251 message thread spans 9 pages: < < 251 ( 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 > >     
Is this a big google update going on?
watching the data centers
eskipii




msg:747857
 8:14 pm on Dec 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

i'm seeing a big change in some data centers, looks awesome. this is one fine christmas gift.

 

colin_h




msg:747887
 10:05 pm on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Maybe now that christmas shopping is over online, google's gonna turn up the spam filter at last ...

About time, I'm fed up with seeing cheap tricks win rankings, maybe all those spam reports are finally being processed.

All the best

Colin

steveb




msg:747888
 10:07 pm on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

302 links showing up as "pages" an awful lot more.

speedshopping




msg:747889
 10:19 pm on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

my site has gone from 445,000 indexed to 654 on the test DC? Can anyone clarify that this could be correct!

randle




msg:747890
 10:42 pm on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

their SERP's were better in 2002 than they are today.

No question about it; makes you wonder what they are chasing. Generally speaking when an update happens you can eventually get the gist of what they were trying to accomplish, a new signal of quality they were enamored with. Last two, no idea what it was. Lots of people saying it was to combat spam, fix canonical problems, put the kibosh on link swapping, but there’s no evidence of that.

Jagger is still a total mystery to me, if anyone has a thought on that, it would be interesting to hear.

FromRocky




msg:747891
 10:52 pm on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

their SERP's were better in 2002 than they are today.

There was no AdSense or even AdWords in 2002. And SERP's in 2002 can't be applied to 2006. Time has changed.

johnhh




msg:747892
 11:19 pm on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

"There was no AdSense or even AdWords in 2002"

or you could say that google have created their own problems by chasing the $'s

g1smd




msg:747893
 11:34 pm on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have noticed a few small improvements on the test DC in the last two days. A very few old supplemental pages seem to have disappeared; the majority are still there though.

>> my site has gone from 445,000 indexed to 654 on the test DC? Can anyone clarify that this could be correct! <<

I see an osCommerce site that has dropped from 37 000 pages to about 950 too (site really has about 30 000 pages). No major changes for any of the other sites that I have checked out.

caveman




msg:747894
 12:08 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

> Time has changed

And? One might have hoped that their results would be better now than three years ago. Instead, very often I turn elsewhere now, as I see which SE is good at returning what kinds of results.

Of course the Web is larger today by multiples than it was three years ago, and the spammers are far cleverer now. But G makes choices, and IMO, their choices have led them so far into the battlefield of fighting spam, that they've lost site of the forrest for the trees.

Hey, I couldn't do better. But happily it's not my job to do better.

The mere fact that the meta SE's are currently returning generally better SERP's than any of the individual SE's suggests that improved quality is not some vague, impossibly complex pipe dream. Three years ago, I almost never chose a meta SE over G ... at that time, IMO, the inclusion of the other SERP's in meta results just dragged down G's quality. No more.

Reasonable minds may differ.

;-)

2by4




msg:747895
 12:46 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

caveman, to me, hearing seos complain about google serps when seos are the ones directly responsible for most of the issues google has to deal with is slightly odd, it's like pickpockets complaining about the quality of local police protection in their neighborhoods at night because the police had to assign extra shifts to patrol the pickpocket's turf during the day - triangle links schemes, fake link farms, text link sales, blog and forum link spamming, scraper sites, fake city scripts to boost site page counts and keyword city stuff, fakes sites, you name it, seos do it, and google has to deal with it.

Google gets targetted and has to respond because it's the biggest and I'd say still the best. If MSN or Yahoo got to be the biggest, they'd get hit with the same attacks, and they'd have to defend themselves in the same ways.

Google deserves a lot of criticism, first off for their stupid don't be evil slogan, craigslist has that too, but they actually try to do it, they didn't do the venture capitalist thing, or any of the other money stuff google got sucked into, it's too late for google, they already made the real mistake.

How about we give google a christmas present and blame ourselves for the next few days? Then we can go back to complaining about supplementals in the serps to our heart's content.

Anyway, if you ignore the supplementals in the serps, which I do, since they make no difference I can see in the keywords I track in any industry, the new data center is pretty decent.

One thing I have noticed: that data center does not have all the pages indexed of several sites I'm following, although they have fixed the 8.5 times page inflation, but now the indexing isn't correct, in one case, only 1/3 of the site's pages are indexed. In another, it's about 60 or 70% of the pages.

But overall I'd be happy if those serps became permanent.

HieroHero




msg:747896
 1:12 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wow I hope the 64.233.179.104 comes into effect across google. After Jagger my site of 10 years was completely removed for my search terms, but with that one I'd be right back up to 20. Thats a whole lot better than nothing, which is where I'm at now.

2by4




msg:747897
 1:17 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

yes, we are seeing the same thing, we lost a site in jagger, it had been solid in the serps for a while. It's back in the new data center, right about where it was before getting dumped by jagger.

What I want to figure out is what exactly this new data center is looking for, and why it let that site back in. I have one or two good guesses, but they are only guesses at this point.

Another site lost a really good ranking for a keyword phrase it is number one for currently, very high serp counts, but to be honest, I really never understood why it was ranking for that in the first place, even though it was nice getting that type of positioning, but I'm happy with what's left, it's solid.

HieroHero




msg:747898
 1:26 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ive noticed the Google directory has been updated on that Test DC too

caveman




msg:747899
 2:18 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

hearing seos complain about google serps when seos are the ones directly responsible for most of the issues google has to deal with is slightly odd, it's like pickpockets complaining about the quality of local police protection in their neighborhoods at night because the police had to assign extra shifts to patrol the pickpocket's turf during the day - triangle links schemes, fake link farms, text link sales, blog and forum link spamming, scraper sites, fake city scripts to boost site page counts and keyword city stuff, fakes sites, you name it, seos do it, and google has to deal with it.

This particular comment seems to involve an assumption that all SEO's are alike. If I were overly sensitive, I get upset at being likened to a pickpocket. Hehe.

FWIW, I am a site publisher, a marketer and site optimization consultant. When I work with clients, everything I do is transparent and above board, and I do not hesitate to submit client sites to SE's for review (though rarely have reason to do so). I do not run fake link farms, scraper sites of any kind, or participate in blog spamming or similar tactics.

BTW, I have no issue with those who do; none at all. Because in case you had missed it, G is the ultimate scraper site.

I do buy text link ads. I buy banner ads too. Like I said, I'm a marketer. Text link ads perform better than most banners. I also unfortunately run an occasional triangular link exchange between related sites, because there is some evidence that G actually doesn't care for related sites straightforwardly linking to each other because they have something in common, which I have no patience for.

FWIW, when I comment on the SERP's it must be generally removed from how my sites are performing. If I cheered the algo every time my sites went up and booed every time my sites went down, I'd have zero credibility with my partners, clients and friends, and I'd be contributing nothing but noise to WebmasterWorld. ;-)

annej




msg:747900
 2:46 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Jagger is still a total mystery to me

There was never any real end of Jagger where we had a thread discussing what the changes in the algo were and how to adjust. Instead it just fizzled out very, very slowly.

I really can't face another update already.:( Oh for the good old days with the traditionl Google Dance each month. It was all over in just a few days and we had a chance to improve things on our sites then to see how they did the next month.

2by4




msg:747901
 3:06 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sounds like you're about as clean as you can get practically speaking and still get paid for seo caveman, that doesn't surprise me.

I should have used the word most, but you notice, even a guy who is fairly clean still uses some of the techniques I mentioned, in order to try, usually I'd assume with success, to manipulate the serps.

And I could mention more, and you'd be using some of those too, you'd have to be, or you wouldn't get your clients ranking.

I wasn't talking about the complaining about specific results because your site isn't in them, I know you don't do that, it's one of the really good things about your postings.

It's the overall thing, google is forced to react in sometimes painful ways because so much effort is focused on them, sometimes that means the serps have problems as they try to dump the spammers etc. It's the overall practices that cause this. This is the direct result of all the seo aimed at google. That's the pickpocket analogy, it's like, who, me? I've never seen any professional seo who doesn't use at least some of these methods.

No spam, much less algo tweaking. Zero backlink spam and google would never have changed their PR ranking mechanism at all. They were forced to change it because seos took advantage of its relatively pure, some might say naive, format. Nothing wrong with doing it I guess, google isn't a moral thing, it's just another company trying to make some money.

Anyway, way off topic, sorry, I like this new update, it's moving in a pretty clear way from what I can see, it will be interesting to see who complains the loudest I have to say, that will be revealing.

colin_h




msg:747902
 6:43 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

It always seems that we get the same old anxiety from webmaters who have lost their income because of the latest updates ... well I'm fed up with hearing the old timers on this forum giving no more advice than "well you probably deserved it". IMHO this doesn't help anyone and certainly isn't a sign that they have any great knowledge of the subject.

In this season of good will, I would call for solidarity amoungst webmasters in their attempt to 'beat' google's latest update. Help your fellow webmasters ... don't revel in their misery :-)

brokenbricks




msg:747903
 6:44 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

What I have seen that has changed....

A site that was Top 10 using stuffed hidden keywords and links returning to the top 10. During jagger it was pr0'ed and nowhere in the SERPs like it deserved. Now it's back and still full of stuffed hidden garbage.

colin_h




msg:747904
 7:01 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yep ... I've noticed a site that is brand new in the listings. They are just site copiers and yet if you put my company name into the test DC ... they are top. I reported this to Google and also explained that this website has also copied the Google, Froogle and Adwords sections in their entirity and yet if you put 'Google' into the search engine ... google are still top ... Can't be fair really.

I'm just waiting to see signs that the spam reports have been acted upon. I can't believe that Google would miss that opportunity to catch spammers.

colin_h




msg:747905
 7:17 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Search for my name on that old DC's and there are 9.26 million competitors, on the new one 21.6 million.

I'm intereted that the 21.6 million is an exact number and isn't ... say ... 21'600'005. Is this relevant? Maybe a sign that the database is filling up bit by bit and stopping each 100'000?

Yep I tried it with my Town name ... 15,600,000 old serps ... 47.8 million exactly on the new DC.

The relationship between the numbers is close (X 2.3326133909287257019438444924406 and X 3.06410256410256410256410256410256) but not close enough to see a pattern.

I can only theorise that the new results are faulty and will not last for long before these numbers are reduced. Prepare for some filters ... On the basis that 47.8 million websites about my home town is really a bit over the top. I mean we've got a swimming pool and a library, a town hall and some shops ... that's it really (maybe enough for 10 websites). ;-)

colin_h




msg:747906
 7:52 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm feeling creative today, so I thought for the Astrologers amoung you I would give readings for the 3 DC's that I use at present. Enjoy ...

Google.com (Mountain View CA) - 15-Sept-1997

You are particularly perceptive during this time - you have an almost infallible feeling for the fine, often unnoticed sensitivities of others and can take these into account during team-work and in conversations. In this way you create an open, sympathetic atmosphere in which your counterpart feels relaxed and secure. This is an excellent background for all personal contact and private talks with people who are close to you. Perhaps small hurts that others have suffered, which have made them sensitive, will come up in conversation. Should you find out that you yourself - even if unintentionally - were the cause of this injury, you now have the opportunity to make this good. Even small wounds need to be healed.

Google.co.uk (Mountain View CA) - 14-Feb-1999

This influence signifies a day when you will make new discoveries, encounter new people and generally have a sense of excitement and interest. And you won't have to go out of your way to experience these effects, for your immediate environment will present all the interest you need. If you find this day disruptive, examine your attitudes and ask yourself if you are being too rigid. Rigidity and unwillingness to allow anything to deviate from a prescribed plan will make this influence more difficult to handle. This is a good day to tackle old problems that you have not been able to resolve in the past. In your communications with others, startling new ideas will come up. All around you, new aspects of life will be opened up for you to experience

Test DC = 64.233.179.104 (Mountain View CA) - 18-Aug-2003

Just in time for a wonderful evening, you've been cosmically endowed with the ability to talk just about anyone into just about anything. You're not unfamiliar with this gift, but still, use it wisely

Dayo_UK




msg:747907
 9:16 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>>Yep I tried it with my Town name ... 15,600,000 old serps ... 47.8 million exactly on the new DC.

Cool - our city will do better in the Googelfight tool then :) and you do not do it justice in your description - but you are just making a point I know :) - ok no doubt others have increased by the same amount though ;)

People should not forget that this DC is going to be rolled out over months - so is clearly going to have a lot of tweaks, updates, cleaning up etc as time goes along.

>>>One thing I have noticed: that data center does not have all the pages indexed of several sites I'm following

Me too - a very low percentage in some cases - I dont know if this is due to a sample test size, rebuilding is still underway or that the sites are only allowed a certain number of pages to be indexed.

Dont forget this line from MC Blog.

"That data center has some infrastructure that I think in time will work better for canonicalization and redirects."

Pretty sure that a few crawls are needed for the infastructure to work/kick in - surely?

otech




msg:747908
 10:41 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have a realtively new site that just got another 40 pages added to the index, and my PR on the toolbar is greyed out on every site - though on some other computers I checked it still shows PR/some dont;

could there be a toolbar PR update in progress too?

checking from aus.

phantombookman




msg:747909
 11:01 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Nothing happening at all in my areas (as normal when these updates occur)

idolw




msg:747910
 1:35 pm on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

that test DC improved slightly recently. it does not show non-existing pages now.
hotels searches in europe show relevant results, but still not sites that deserve to be at the top.

crobb305




msg:747911
 5:17 am on Dec 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

On Dec 21, Matt Cutts made a comment in his blog about the index on 64.233.179.104. He said to "hold off on sending in feedback about this index for another week or so", implying that there are indeed some changes that will be rolling out soon.

stroudtx




msg:747912
 6:48 am on Dec 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

PR went back down from 6 back to 4. Something indeed must be a muck. Adopt MSN's tech and put me #1. My wish...lol

tigger




msg:747913
 8:41 am on Dec 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

a week or so <headbang/>! will this ever finish

looked at that DC and I'm not seeing much of an improvement, but as MC says we have to wait and see, happy Xmas G

reseller




msg:747914
 8:45 am on Dec 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Good morning Folks

How many Kg/lb have you gained in weight since yesterday?

A new update thread! hmmmm. ya-goodness ;-)

I took a look this morning at the DCs. Movements in the right direction for my site. But I guess its the X-Mas-Everflux. Or it could be something important taking place, which Santa-Matt forgot to tell us about before leaving to Omaha :-)

crobb305




msg:747915
 4:10 pm on Dec 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Whenever there is a Google update, a Yahoo update seems soon to follow. So, could be an interesting first couple of weeks in '06!

NoLimits




msg:747916
 5:38 pm on Dec 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Holy s#it..

The test DC appears to be showing on my default Google.com

claus




msg:747917
 5:44 pm on Dec 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wait a minute. You guys can't seriously be speaking about an update when "the update" is on a test datacenter?

How about getting a mod to rename the thread to "Discussion of the new Google Testbed?"

The testbed/sandbox is very interesting and there's a lot to discuss, but as far as I can tell it's not the one sending traffic.

It's a new thing that Google has chosen to share with us (as well as with competitors), and that's nice. We don't even know for sure if it's here to stay. I wouldn't think of it as an ordinary DC. More like a place for the engineers to test stuff out in large scale, but still in a controlled environment. As Steveb said (#28), it's not even certain that the ranking scores are the right ones. And may I add, why should they be? If the focus of the current tests isn't ranking, why do that part "100%" if "half-baked" will do?

The thing with tests is that some fail and others pass. So, some of it may spread to other DC's and the rest of the Google ecosystem, eventually. Other parts may not.

Or, to spell it out: Be careful that you don't confuse a single prototype of a tree with the forest ;)

(FWIW, YMMV, AFAIK, MY2C)

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