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Update Saga. Part 5
Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 8:26 pm on Nov 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

What say you?

Over and done with?

All done all through?

 

subway

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:31 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

An index update is a MAJOR business operation. At the end more money or at least equal money has to come in

Ankhenaton, that is the most useful thing any of us are going to read regarding this update.

A Google update now *could* if they get it wrong, result in a colossal loss of earnings, nowadays it's so much more serious than tweaking results for SPAM. It's about advancing the company and increasing profits. Lets get over it, the days of genuine friendly advice postings from G employees are over!

cleanup

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:32 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ankhenaton,
Yes, that is my gut feeling, they have worked out the major terms but the minor stuff is still to come or maybe the minor terms are just too processing/expensive to get 100% right now....

It does make you apreciate the minor terms when you see it reflected in your bottom line right?

arubicus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:35 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Good grief ... don't y'all think your time would be better spent not living life in fear and, instead, be bold and create more content?! "

After 9-10 months being out and a revenue drop of 1/4 mil - we have added more content fixed this tweak that. It seems efforts become a bit futile. Yes it is difficult to replace the traffic loss from such a huge source. PERIOD. Does Google owe my company anything? NOPE.

Nothing can change the fact that Google is a HUGE source of traffic. Like placing a restaurant in a high traffic area in town next to a motel right off the interstate. You will rely on that off-the-road customers - this is just business. Sometimes reality hits and the interstate gets moved. I have to say you best be prepared to move the restaurant or step up your brand and advertising to compensate any loss of free off-the-road customers.

For many of us the interstate has been moved. We are all trying to compensate. Many of us are looking for the quick fix trying to get back next to the interstate because the financial ramification leaves little choice. Most of us put ourselves in the position.

Many here are venting on google for our own mistakes. I myself thought my company was immune to these search engine hiccups. I was wrong. I though I was in control of the game. I was DEAD wrong. We will still chase Google to obtain a portion of their searh market no doubt. But stable alternatives are now needed more than ever. This will be much work.

Many of us SCREWED up big time (we did) by not building a stronger brand, partnerships and preparing to spend $$$ on advertising to stay alive. Many of us did not have an alternative plan. I do have to say at least in the real world we know where the road has been moved to and it tends to remain more static. Google is quite opposite.

"Our site receives over 4000 NON-SEARCH ENGINE free visitors per day, from articles, press releases, inbound links, etc. etc. All that traffic converts as well, if not better, than search engine traffic."

This is what is keeping us alive. We are holding on by a thread but thank goodness we had built up a little cushion or we would have closed our doors many moons ago. Reality hit after the fact though that more time and effort COULD and SHOULD have been spent creating a BIGGER cushion.

[edited by: arubicus at 5:39 pm (utc) on Nov. 10, 2005]

Eazygoin

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:36 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Matts Blog : "Id love to hear your spam reportsI believe well pay more attention to international areas soon.""Ill pass that feedback on. Stephen, most/all of the update is visible at this point"

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:38 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Up until this most recent one, most of my sites and my client's sites have weathered the updates reasonably well. Usually we gain, occasionally a few key phrases drop down and we need to do some tweaking to bring ourselves up, but overall, we couldn't complain.

With this last update (I missed the naming process - was it called Jagger cause we can't get no satisfaction?) one of my client's sites, who has for YEARS ranked in the top 20 for its two or three dozen primary keywords, tanked severely. I mean, it's *gone* - most of the phrases are now to be found in the 500 to 600th result; at least five of them can't be found in 1000. There are no SEO spammy tricks on this site; it's been around since 1997, although there is a lot of spam and fierce competition in its particular industry. Not only are there spam results above their rankings, but there are totally unrelated and irrelevant SERPS as well. Anyway, my clients are just about fit to be tied. What do I tell them? They are still in the top FIVE for all their best keywords in MSN and Yahoo, but that's scant consolation. Don't be dependent on Google? Well they're not, completely, but there's no denying the traffic we used to get has played a big part in building the business over the years, and we're suffering now that it's gone. It's very discouraging.

Ankhenaton



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:41 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Not at all.

snip
we would all be better off.

Webfusion, while you are right on the one hand, maybe you could trust people have seen this too before. But first I lost my traffic 3 days ago. Secondly, G is a big part of the business. Thirdly. My clientel will search more over Google with it's still existing geeky chic. Academics and students will more likely use Google than Yahoo or msn.

It's good that you are confident in what you do, but maybe others are not as unwise as you think they are. :)

I have taken in what you said, it still does only apply partially. It works if you are in a big market. My market is very concentrated and the main accumulator is Google. I'd like it to be different but well I have no other choice in the moment.

Deester

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:48 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm in the same boat, my traffic has dissapeared today. I've relied on Google to bring me traffic for about 3 years now. My site never wobbled at any of the other updates, now it has tanked.

0 sales and about 5% of normal traffic.

Time to find some old domains...

arubicus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:55 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"My market is very concentrated and the main accumulator is Google."

Right there is your answer:) You need to become the accumulator. Like amazon became the accumulator in the book industry. Like google became the accumulator in the search industry. Like ebay in the online auction industry. PR PR PR = BRAND BRAND BRAND.

helleborine

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 5:59 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

The datacenters seem to swing back and forth between two sets of results in the 4-keyword target keyword I watch. At the moment the "freshest" results appear to be on:

64.233.161.147
64.233.183.99
66.102.11.99
66.102.9.99
64.233.161.104
66.102.11.104
66.102.9.104
66.102.7.104

When I say "freshest" I refer to the fact that one website which has recently acquired a fair number of backlinks and targeted anchor text, relative to competition, appears to have finally benefitted with higher ranking on the datecenters listed above.

For a similar 3-keyword search I notice "fresher" results as well on these DCs. Another website with original content has risen, deservedly.

Further reducing to a less specific 2-keyword seach I notice that a third website, one that deserves to be ranked lower, is indeed ranking lower on these DCs, while a fourth that is "up and coming" is ranking higher. A fifth and sixth sites, purely informational, also rank higher as well for this 2-keyword search, and have displaced more commercial sites.

In my opinion, and in my niche area (crafts), the DCs above appear to contain better results, that may be based on fresher data.

LegalAlien

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 6:17 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> Please publish the raw data from the poll you used to uncover this "fact" and describe how you made your sample random and unbiased. Or, perhaps you meant to say "the majority of people complaining about being far worse off" instead of "the majority of people here" -- that would indeed be a fact, tautological in fact. <<

ronburk,

I said, "..but the fact is the majority of people here 'APPEAR' to be far worse off than they were 2 months ago". This was an 'opinion' based upon having read just about every post here since the topic started. I think it's pretty clear that this wasn't based on comprehensive analysis -- Raw data... gees!

reseller,

I never intended on offending anyone. I just wanted to express some serious frustration at your incredibly happy approach throughout this update -- up at 5:30 with a bright smile -- what brand of coffee do you buy? I've got to get me some! Sure, GG's and MC's comments are welcome -- sincerest apologies to anyone that was offended by my previous post :

econman,

Everyone's pulling holes in this statement. What I meant was that having read just about all the posts in this and the previous two threads, it appears as though the majority of people here are worse off than they were 2 months ago. How's that? ;)

"Perhaps one of Google's goals in making particular algo changes was to cancel out the "edge" that is given to those site owners who are knowledgeable about SEO"

I agree that there are signs of this. At the risk of having ronburk ask me for 'raw data', I spent several days last week analyzing 20 sites in our sector -- 12 of which had remained unaffected throughout this update, against 8 that had dropped significantly, or were continually volatile during the update stages. All were long-term, well-established sites. All but two of the stable sites had very low text content, extremely low body keyword density, but very high numbers of meta, comment and title keyword content. These are areas that would likely be reversed in an optimized site.

LegalAlien

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 6:40 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> The datacenters seem to swing back and forth between two sets of results <<

In our area, these appear to be the same .9 results, with a few DCs showing the .7 results from a few days ago. Didn't look that deeply though (first 5 pages).

<edit> Sorry, I quoted the 7/9 in the wrong order. Fixed now!

[edited by: LegalAlien at 6:59 pm (utc) on Nov. 10, 2005]

TammyJo

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 6:49 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

<<<0 sales and about 5% of normal traffic.

Time to find some old domains... >>>

Actually, why not find out what is different about the new algo and just make some changes to your current site.

Really, if they are saying "this is it" for J3 we can better evaluate how the results are being harvested. I know for myself that our site has been around for 5 years. Some changes were never made because "search was so good" ...in fear of losing our ranking...it is time to find out what the new SEO. Kind of exciting if you think about it.

I have been guilty of DC watching...too much I might add. In doing so I missed when our site started to rank #1 in MSN for MANY keywords. I got so focused on this THING that I didn't think outside the box.

We lost some in this go around, but if we can win once, there is no reason we can't do it again.

Live - Learn - Move On :)

End of pep talk!

TammyJo

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 6:58 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Okay, the brain is working in solution mode!

I get Google Alerts and find many "scrapper" sites that are linking to me. Why doesn't Google come up with a way for the us to BLOCK these links from being associated with our sites...say if they link to you without permission.

Benefit:

1. Google will know that we did not initiate the "link" to a particular unwanted source, thus not being connected with unwanted sites.

2. It would benefit Google by a) getting more people to use their Google Alerts feature and b) clean up their backlink algo thus their search engine results would be more relevant.

randle

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 6:59 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyway, my clients are just about fit to be tied. What do I tell them?

That it will come back, but you gotta give it some time. This is the very nature of organic traffic.

Ankhenaton



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:18 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Right there is your answer:) You need to become the accumulator. Like amazon became the accumulator in the book industry. Like google became the accumulator in the search industry. Like ebay in the online auction industry. PR PR PR = BRAND BRAND BRAND.

We had a specialised search engine pre bust. Were lucky to lease it out and spend two nice years until the ones that we leased it out too, couldn't afford it anymore.

With the Google monopoly out there SE isn't an option, content is useless so I am still thinking..

arubicus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:23 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Actually, why not find out what is different about the new algo and just make some changes to your current site."

How about also asking better questions. You ask better questions you get better answers.

What can I do right now to help my site increase it's income...?

In what ways can I improve such and such about my site today?

In what ways can I create a stronger brand in the future? - What can I do today, tomorrow, for a week...?

What can I do right now to help give my visitors a better experience? What can I do continuously to improve visitor expreience?

You all get the picture.

When you have some answers to your questions do something immediately to fulfill that answer.

2by4

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:27 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Busy thread, some interesting points.

cainIV
msg #:85
3. Spammy sites and link spam are about the same. In the end I have seen very little reduction in rank based on reciprocal *themed and unthemed* and inbound purchased link acquisition as measure on about 15 of my sites. I know this was not something that G was destined to target, but it seemed I had jumped the gun in the beginning assuming the drop was associated with trades. In the end, all of our recip linking sites returned to about the same spots. Newer sites were left slightly behind what they were.

Any thoughts, and theories?

CainIV, once again, good questions lost in the polemics. I don't think you jumped the gun at all, I think google now has a significantly increased capability to do this detection, but they are mixing it in with other factors, the 3 jagger phases that is. I saw this link filtering very clearly during jagger 1 and 2. Just because google decided not to apply that filter as purely as they initially did does not mean it's not there.

Ankhenaton
msg #:151
Since G delivers the traffic it has full control over who will be top when and how they want it. One employee might be interested in cleaning out some spam as it's his job. But he ain't Google as a whole. He is just an employee.

This is one of the more insightful observations about how corporations actually work internally. And it's confirmed by the apparent annoyance MC is displaying on his blog, what he wanted to happen isn't happening the way he wanted I think. He is only one voice among many in g.

LegalAlien
msg #:155
I've seen it argued here in the past that Google has no responsibility to anyone, but come on! With some 65 percent of the entire world using Google to find what it's looking for, this is serious power.

Google isn't a public library, which does have this type of responsibility. It's a publically held media corporation, whose principle responsibility is to it share holders. If the thought of a corporation holding this amount of control over your access to the information on the web is disturbing to you, it's probably time to start advocating a public search engine, funded by a consortium of state and private interests. Complaining about Google's editorial slant (the serps returned) is like complaining about Time or USA today's editorial slant, there's no difference. Obviously one company having this level of control isn't good, if Yahoo and MSN would start getting more serious about their search offerings long term it would help a lot. Users have a choice, and they are chosing google. That's not google's fault. MSN has as far as I know gained no market share in the last year. That's not Google's fault.

europeforvisitors
msg #:164
Google's job is to serve users, not to keep you or me or the next guy in business--just as reviewers for THE NEW YORK TIMES are paid to serve playgoers or restaurant patrons, not theatrical producers or restaurant owners.

efv, exactly, and if users don't like the serps, users will go elsewhere. As anyone who watches their refer logs, and has more than one site, will know, there has been little movement in overall referer percentages. Users continue to appear to be happy although WebmasterWorld members are not.

econman
msg #:175
3. Perhaps one of Google's goals in making particular algo changes was to cancel out the "edge" that is given to those site owners who are knowledgeable about SEO. Thus, one would expect WebmasterWorld participants to suffer more than average every time the algos change.

Yes, that's my feeling too.

WebFusion
msg #:183
That's the point the "smart businessmen" are trying to make. Perhaps if people started using the forums as an analytical tool and a place to exchange ideas, as opposed to a support group for the sharing of the "misery" google has inflicted, we would all be better off.

Webfusion, oh, to dream the impossible dream... if we could get the percentage up to even 5% analysis each and every update would be cracked within one week. I shiver to think what would happen if it rose to 10%, Google would have to totally change how it works. But CainIVs, and a handful of others like him, postings will continue to be ignored. Google is safe.

arubicus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:28 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"We had a specialised search engine pre bust. Were lucky to lease it out and spend two nice years until the ones that we leased it out too, couldn't afford it anymore.

With the Google monopoly out there SE isn't an option, content is useless so I am still thinking.. "

If what you are doing isn't working change your approach. Goes along the line of "never fall in love with your business - it is just a tool - use it until it no longer serves it's purpose then find a new/better that will"

Again ask better questions. It will help focus your mind on what is important as well as open up possibilities that tend to be unseen.

zikos



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:31 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just a question out of topic a bit.I recently bought an old domain ,if I create subdomains Google will see the subs as new pages or domains? or tose subdomains will have thesame authority of that old domain?

zikos



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:41 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)


1:Starting December 7, 2005, the new .eu top level domain (TLD) will be offered.
2:On April 7, 2006, .eu domain registration will be opened to anyone, who meets the general requirements.

Does that also means that somewhere in Europe secretly a EU Search Engine is under constraction?
And another interesting topic: The second phase of WSIS takes place in Tunis hosted by the Government of Tunisia from 16 to 18 November 2005 [itu.int...]
Will Google Yahoo MSN will govern all searches for how long?

aeiouy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:41 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

That's the point the "smart businessmen" are trying to make. Perhaps if people started using the forums as an analytical tool and a place to exchange ideas, as opposed to a support group for the sharing of the "misery" google has inflicted, we would all be better off.

The problem is there is a significant percentage of webmaster's that have no real business experience and don't understand the demands and pitfalls of running a business. Too many people were told to tend to the Golden Goose, and then when the Goose dies they want to blame god for taking it away from them.

I think it is a good wake-up call for lots of people, as it is probably every time a change is implemented. If an algo change causes you to creep out on the window ledge, then you likely have no one to blame but themselves.

I continue to try and figure out what people want. I know of quite a few good and above-board webmasters who have benefited from this change. Yet I see some people here talking about how it is the worst thing ever. It is likely neither the best nor worst thing. It is folly to think Google could make millions of webmasters happy with their place in the rankings. In fact it is folly to think they could make even a significant percentage of them happy.

In some cases I saw improvements from these changes. In others I saw downgrades. I will use all the information I have and make appropriate decisions and adjustments moving forward. No amount of hand-wringing or footstomping is going to change the reality that will be the final outcome of the Jagger update. So I would suggest some of you direct that energy into an actual productive direction. Feeling sorry for yourself or getting mad at Google accomplishes nothing for your bottom line.

WebFusion

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:43 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

If what you are doing isn't working change your approach. Goes along the line of "never fall in love with your business - it is just a tool - use it until it no longer serves it's purpose then find a new/better that will"

I think that's mroe relvant than ever now. While I still think one of the best approaches in the long term is Brett's "26 steps", in the short term, there is a TON of things people can do to increase traffic to legit sites (note: by legit, I mean sites that actually contain unique content/products, as opposed to datafeed generated affiliate sites and/or scraper sites). heck, one press release alone about a product that we've carried since day one on our site brought in over 10000 visitors in 24 hours and generated 133 sales. I should also note that press release cost us all of $75 to have a freelancer write of us (yet brought in over $4k in profit).

How many webmasters have gone the route of actually offering unique content to other quality sites in their niche simply for the courtesy of a link back. We actually have a contract with a few freelancers to create 5-10 new articles a week for OTHER sites in our genre, simply to build one-way links back to ours. It's a win-win, and generates both targeted traffic AND slowly builds our free traffic (which again, is just a bonus).

There are more ways to build traffic than the most obvious. Think outside the box. While this Christmas may be a bust, by this time next year, you could be in the position to give google the finger in their stocking ;-)

aeiouy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:45 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)


I get Google Alerts and find many "scrapper" sites that are linking to me. Why doesn't Google come up with a way for the us to BLOCK these links from being associated with our sites...say if they link to you without permission.

Google would do that if they could. The problem is determining who "owns" the content? What if the scrapper site tells google to have you stop using "their" content before you make your claim? Then you are left out in the cold. That is kind of the crux of the issue. Defining ownership is simply a very difficult task, and not one that any algo, at this point, is very good at figuring out.

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:50 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

LegalAlien

>>reseller,
I never intended on offending anyone. I just wanted to express some serious frustration at your incredibly happy approach throughout this update -- up at 5:30 with a bright smile..<<

I understand your frustration. Thats human.

Ok. Here is some webmaster- and personal things mixed together ;-)

As I mentioned in my previous post, I got a hit on 2-3 Feb 2005 (Allegra) where I lost 75% of my Google's referrals. Then got a second hit on 22nd July 2005 which left me around 5-10% of my pre-Allegra Google's referrals.

Then something happened around 19-22 September 2005 where I could see little traffic is returning back but not much.

So when Jagger update started, I had really not much to lose but everything to win. Therefore :-)

>>-- what brand of coffee do you buy? I've got to get me some! <<

Nescafe Instant Coffee Gold Blend, usually followed by a cup of a danish brand Cappuccino :-)

Hanu

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 7:56 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Defining ownership is simply a very difficult task, and not one that any algo, at this point, is very good at figuring out.

What about first come first serve? That's gonna catch 99% of the scraping cases.

arubicus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 8:06 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"How many webmasters have gone the route of actually offering unique content to other quality sites in their niche simply for the courtesy of a link back. We actually have a contract with a few freelancers to create 5-10 new articles a week for OTHER sites in our genre, simply to build one-way links back to ours. It's a win-win, and generates both targeted traffic AND slowly builds our free traffic (which again, is just a bonus)."

Actually is a win win win situation for you, the site you provide content to, and for the visitor. Also it helps build you the all important BRAND and helps move a site into an authority status. On the plus side you also develope a relationship with other site owners big and small throughout your industry. Many will start coming back for more info and articles and begin to look to YOU as the leader of that industry.

Markoi

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 8:12 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

From Matt Cuts blog:

Q: Do you still want spam reports if I see things like hidden text, hidden links, etc.?
A: Absolutely. Wefre working through the reports that wefve received, but Ifd love to have more. Just to repeat, you can do a spam report at [google.com...] with the keyword gjagger3 and wefll check it out.

G can't filter it out so we have do it? Strange!
I reported a few, and they are stil in the serps.

Take a look at this.

[google.com...]

How much spam do you need to filter it out?

2by4

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 8:18 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"How much spam do you need to filter it out?"

Enough to adequately train the filters is my guess. How much that is depends on how creative seos are, I've seen radically different ways to generate hidden text for example, each more creative than the last, and each harder to detect than the last.

flyboy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 8:33 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Im seeing some interesting things going on with jagger3, my chronological problems seem to have been fixed. Googlebot/2.1 is updating pages that where url only or supplemental, new pages added, old 404 pages disappearing. I have supplemental results going back to April 2004

MozillaBot has probable been on every page twice last week and once this week, not doing changing anything, Googlebot only 3 or 4 pages a day out of about 600, but see the updates within 48 hours. Home page with a fresh tag every 48 hours.

The biggest obstacle I still see is self inflicted duplicate content; in January I introduced a logic bug into my site, when paging thru products in a category I changed case on the url, now my category page is url, and my bad case Category page is supplemental.

I had the bad case blocked by robots.txt for several months returning a 404, only MozillaBot came to the page. Just last week removed it from the robots now returning a 410 hoping Googlebot will be by soon.

These pages began performing badly in msn and yahoo, but came back to life within weeks.

Am I correct in assuming G has a within the site duplicate content penalty, has any body seen this self-correct, or should I to go beg GG and friends for forgiveness?

LegalAlien

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 8:35 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

2by4,

>> Google isn't a public library, which does have this type of responsibility. It's a publically held media corporation, whose principle responsibility is to it share holders. <<

My comments were relating to this update and not Google in general.

Google stores other people's data and sorts this into an organized index, thereby allowing users to find that data. It does not own that data, it makes no changes to that data, it is not libel for that data and it doesn't write any data of its own (referring to the search side of Google). It simply indexes and presents it. That sounds a lot closer to a library, than to the other media examples you gave.

Whether publicly or state owned, does a library have the right to remove a large portion of its most popular books, just because it can't index them properly. Perhaps it does, but it also has a responsibility to its users, authors and publishers to ensure those books are back on the shelves within a reasonable amount of time, no?

zeus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31943 posted 8:56 pm on Nov 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

flyboy do you have a IP

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