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Sandbox
How long does it take?
ezyid

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 10:27 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello all..
I just finally got out of the sandbox about 2 months ago. after my website was new in Jan.

but i heard that it would be a good idea to 301 my origional site to the new one.. well its newer...
Bam.. about 6 weeks later im sandboxed with 1/3 of my traffic gone...

How long have people been in my position for.....

I quiet liked getting out.. but is this going to take another 8 or so months?

Adwords is fairly expensive, and cutting into my profits....

Cheers all!

 

zeus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 11:10 am on Nov 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I will try to tell, what is happening to my site these times.

Site in sandbox:

A month or so ago I recieved a lot of visits from google image, but still nothing from google search, I thought it could maybe be a begining of the end of the sandbox, nothing happend for a month or so, but now in this update I saw I was no.1 for the name of the site out of 30.mill results and I began to recieve more visits from google search, but ONLY the homepage is ranking, still this could be the begining, the site has a PR6.

JoeHouse

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 2:17 pm on Nov 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Question about this obvious real Google Sandbox. Does someone actually have to push a button to let you out? Or is this all timed filters based on one site's particular situation?

Seeing that some get out quick while others stay in forever it seems (me), is this done manually or automatically by Google?

I would think those below the radar get released right away based on auto filters. While those that fly well over the radar are done manually under the watchful eye of Google.

Those under the radar do not pose much of a threat to taking over the serps and upsetting the apple cart. While those who have done their homework will most likely dominant once out of the sandbox (if and when released) which as a result control the serps with regards to positioning and create major changes in results and competitors sales, traffic etc.....

It is my opinion that those high flyers are manually monitored.

What happens is it triggers a flag or filter that alerts Google and becomes a manual process.

Even if this high flyer has done nothing wrong and has just worked hard at trying to succeed they become a vitim of the current Google filter.

At that point are only released by google if every thing checks out and you are playing by all the rules.

Has anybody given much thought as to how this process is operated?

JuniorOptimizer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 2:35 pm on Nov 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't Google does anything by hand, except in a few, extreme cases.

BeeDeeDubbleU

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 3:05 pm on Nov 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

It is my opinion that those high flyers are manually monitored.

Joe it is Google's avowed aim not use manual editing of their index unles it is absolutely necessary. They don't even take manual action when they are notified of blatant spamming.

walkman



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 4:20 pm on Nov 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

sandbox in my opinion is the discounting of ALL your links because Google thinks you cheated /got at least enough of them un-naturally.

That's why every scrapper or directory ranks before you; you have NO links, and they do. </end of theory>

JoeHouse

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 7:27 pm on Nov 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Has anybody ever attempted to remove all their links after being sandboxed by google?

When you did remove them did you get out of the sandbox?

What were your rankings without links?

pgrote

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 8:18 pm on Nov 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Couple of quick questions:

1) If you start a network of sites that have a common global thread, widgets then blue widgets, red widgets, etc., can you put a menu on the side of each page to let people know about those other sites? Does Google see that as link spamming? All we're doing is letting them know about the subset of sites.

2) I've noticed with new sites that Google will put you in the index deep linking to pages, but when you go to look at the page on Google that referred a visitor, you aren't there. Do they pop you into the index and then out again to test your pages?

Thanks!

trimmer80

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 9:15 pm on Nov 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sparkys_Dad

Very nice post.

I have another observation.

I have keywords that are ranked number 1 in MSN, Yahoo etc. Allintitle, allintext etc show up as number 1. But it ranks nowhere in google.

Here is the interesting part.

If I put into google.
site:www.example.com keywordphrase
the results bring up the correct pages but the description for each result google shows is my meta description tags, even though the keywords are within the pages content.

Is anybody else seeing this happen?

hutcheson

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 1:05 am on Nov 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

>Has anybody ever attempted to remove all their links after being sandboxed by google?

The cure for a recognized unnatural pattern of link acquisition is unlikely to be an unnatural pattern of link removal.

JoeHouse

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 2:43 am on Nov 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Stumble across something very interesting.

If you go to google search and type in keywords "google sandbox" the top result is a link for google adwords.

Hmmmm......

Now if you type in just the keyword "sandbox" it is number 5 and 6.

Hmmm.....

Think there is a connection here?

Still a non beliver in the Google Sandbox?

Big business. Its all about the money bottom line.

Heard Google Adwords pulled in a cool Billion Dollars in Revenue last year.

Maybe that wasn't enough and their looking for more?

roadhazard

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 9:45 pm on Nov 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

one year, 4 months, still on first step out of sandbox. I get maybe 1-3 google searches per day...First 11 months, zero google searches. I guess this first step must probably last a year...Then, who knows what is the next step up? Only a PR3. No increase in recent PR update. I suspect AGE of site is key... I do AM and other AMs have said that once their sites reached 4 years of age, then they began to make good money. Ah well, I am hanging in for the long haul...Oh for the good old days when we could jump a site to page one almost immediately...

johnnyenglish

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 11:38 pm on Nov 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think I have something to bring to the party today. I had a site I worked hard on back in 2000 and sold for good money in 2003 - the site still ranks #2 for a major keyword. I then had a non-compete contract that kept me out the game for 2 years until summer this year.

July 10th I launched my new sites. 3 sites at the same time - same products but one for the USA, one for the UK and one for Germany. They each got enough early links and showed up in google within a week or two for super-obscure phrases but of course not for any competitive phrases.

I kinda played each site a little differently, but one has JUST escaped and is appearing about #25 for it's very competitive keyword. The other two are still sandboxed (one of them has a less competitive keyword).

Anyway - the one that escaped was the one that got a couple of days of dedicated time to get links back in August. We didn't go mad, but made the effort to get what links we could. No recipricol links at all. We did add some outgoing links - but only to competitors that linked in the Top 10! This was to go along with the theory that google also looks at your outgoing links to try and work out your marketplace.

So 5 months basically. I am pretty happy with that. It means I can now continue work on this non-sandboxed site with some real enthusiasm at last.

Frankly we were losing the interest in adding new products, and maintaining the site because of the sandbox. One of the sites was instantly #3 in msn.co.uk but regretfully that brings no useable traffic.

So keep the faith people, keep getting incoming links, and only give links to your competitors!

walkman



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 12:44 am on Nov 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> The cure for a recognized unnatural pattern of link acquisition is unlikely to be an unnatural pattern of link removal.

depends how Google does it: if they calculate them independently, let's say each major update, and that month the links are within the boundaries set, you escape the box.

JoeHouse

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 1:14 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Starting to show signs of coming out. Been months with literally nothing listed on Google. Indexed but never ranked for anything.

This weekend starting to see minor keywords in top 50 but still no major keywords.

Is this a sign of good things to come?

johnnyenglish

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 1:25 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

For me the change was clear as night and day. Makes a mockery of those that say there is no sandbox effect.

I have BBclone installed and fair bit of back office stuff to track traffic.

I am only in the 20's for my main keyword in results at present, but now that I am there I can work on improving this. Also now top 10 for some combinations with the keyword.

So whilst sales and traffic are not shooting massively up, I can actually trace orders from this weekend EXACTLY to the phrase searched on google - something that simply did not happen a week ago.

If you watch your traffic you will know when you escape!

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 2:13 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

For me the change was clear as night and day.

This was also my experience. One day no ranking, the next I was ranking for all kinds of phrases.

BeeDeeDubbleU

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 2:38 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you watch your traffic you will know when you escape!

Exactly!

meeko

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 2:58 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

"We didn't go mad, but made the effort to get what links we could. No recipricol links at all."

How can you get someone to link to your site without you linking to them?

johnnyenglish

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 3:50 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Sandbox, what sandbox? I put up a new site 3 months ago and it is ranking where I would expect it to be. Then again I haven't magically aquired thousands of backlinks within those 3 months... slowly does it. "

Depends on how competitive the keyword is. I am talking about keywords with 20 Million possible results. For duff/obscure phrases you can rank instantly in google.

Looks like there might be a cut-off point as to what is considered a "keyword" and what is not.

So anything with say for example 5 Million+ results is a "keyword" and you get sandboxed from that result.

You could set up blue-eggs-from-senegal.com and be ranked #1 for "blue eggs senegal" in a few days if that is your kinda thing :-)

JoeHouse

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 8:38 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Come on. Some of you must have had some referrals from google before getting out? It can't be just me.

Define getting out in regards to sales and traffic?

ezyid

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 11:34 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hey hey.. After starting this thread you know what.. after a 301 redirect im out....
That was the quickest Sandbox I have ever had..

Im back out to all the keywords I had before...

I had noticed that I was getting hits from other data centers..

now im up the top in my local center........ WICKED!

The SandBox IS REAL! dont poo poo it! im just glad im out of it!

johnnyenglish

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 11:36 pm on Nov 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

"How can you get someone to link to your site without you linking to them?"

Your kidding me right?

There are loads of directories etc where you can get listed for no outgoing link such as dmoz.org and hundreds of other shopping directories.

Then if you have an interesting site, selling something or doing something original/different/better then people will link to you as more information for their readers.

You might nicely request 30 links and get 2 or 3.

My pure traffic levels "before and after" my move out the sandbox are not massively better so far. Maybe 50% better on my organic-only traffic, but from a low base anyway of course - so the actual visitor numbers are not that exciting.

But I am now listing #25 for my major keyword, so a bit more dedicated work over time will get me top 10 I think.

Its just nice doing searches for say "major keyword" + "obscure word" and correctly ranking #1, whereas before I was excluded from any result like that.

Sparkys_Dad

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 7:23 am on Nov 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ezyid--congrats.

Meeko--In addition to JohnnyEnglish's sound advice, two more surefire ways and one longshot method of obtaining inbound links without exchanges are:

1. Original articles concerning your site's topic that you write or pay someone else to write and place in online periodicals in exchange for a link at the end of the article. Go REAL EASY on the selling and make the article as unique as possible. Try to address a common problem or need in your marketplace. Also--make sure it's placed in a non-subscription area so that search robots can access it. No use in getting an article in The Economist when can't Google get to it.

2. Press releases will cost you money but are a superb way to garner lots of inbound links and they are cheaper than paying some mook to get you a bunch of dodgy links. If your release includes mention of a publicly held company, try to get them to approve inclusion of their ticker symbol. That will get you placed in a whole slew of financial sites that almost invariably pick up ANY release with a ticker symbol.

3. Viral marketing is the do-all-end-all of link building and it's free but very tough to pull off. Generally it relies upon much sought after content that cannot be found elsewhere. Got a vid of you and Paris (not the city) or a clip of Mother Thersesa kicking a beggar? Those are worth a couple thousand links.

Hope that helps.

meeko

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 11:08 am on Nov 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks for all the help.
My problem is that I am in the financial area and there is only so much you can say without repeating yourself. Yet there are thousands of others doing exactly the same with similar content.
Previously i would have lots of pages with similar content changing phrases about slightly in the hope that it would be picked up for a certain phrase. Now im cutting it right back to not be spammy in hope that this favours me.

cmarket

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 7:29 pm on Nov 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

...finally reading something that doesn't make me feel so bad about having a site out for nearly a year....! What is it? A Google jail sentance...?

BeeDeeDubbleU

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 10:40 am on Dec 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Now into the 13th month and counting :(

hyperblack

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 5:42 am on Dec 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

took me 1.5 years for me to get out of it,, yes 18 months guys!

ed146

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 5:47 am on Dec 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am wondering if this "sand box" really exist after the result I am seeing with 2 sites I have gone live since october. It took my sites a week to get indexed and 2 weeks to get displayed on the google result page.
I belive it's how you go about building your site coupled with good content that get you on the board with G.

ezyid

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 6:12 am on Dec 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

To be honest.. maybe the sandbox isnt real..

Some sites dont get the Sandbox and some do..
It cant be luck..
Can it?

After all Google is not just a random living thing, its Man-Made and has a set of rules.

Maybe someone at google has to review your site before its properly included for a certian keyword phrase....

Or maybe its the quality of your site or how competitive the keyworkds you are aiming at getting...

There are soo many theories i just have no idea now.

Pico_Train

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 6:56 am on Dec 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

No sandbox for my site. Launched in August. DOn't think it exists. Review your title tags aren't too long, keyword density isn't too high and any and all the variables you can think of affecting you serps.

Good luck!

johnnyenglish

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31702 posted 8:21 am on Dec 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

To those that say "no sandbox" you must note that the effect is only seen on competitive words or phrases.

We all get straight into google in days, the issue is where you rank for popular words and phrases.

So you might rank great for "blue armani trousers" but be nowhere for "trousers".

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