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This 930 message thread spans 31 pages: < < 930 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ... 31 > >     
Update Jagger, Google Update Oct 18th, 2005
When can we expect a new PR update?

 5:33 pm on Oct 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued from here:

Anyone have any guesses as to when we can expect a new systemwide PR update?



 3:17 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> Please do not edit this as it is a release intended from google. The bottom line is that the word is out. It's hitting the public's radar screen.

you can't post links, that's all. It's not Steve's or my rule, it the forum owner's rule. You're just making the Mods' job harder.

To that SEO guy who is trying to get backlinks and business by bashing G: nice way to get on Google's radar.


 3:42 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

This is ridiculous. How can they rollout a change over 3 weeks? Can't they test this in-house? You should see the crappy results and spa that have taken over the front page results for the phrases I look for.

C'mon Google Guy, tell us why you don't test the algorithms in-house? Is it because Google doesn't know it's left hand from its right..so to $peak.

Do no evil...I can't believe anyone ever bought into that line...


 3:48 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

sore66 - The biggest reason I can think of not to test things in-house is that there are so many billions of keyword combinations around that the true reflection of relevance can only be determined by unleashing the beast to the unsuspecting public and guaging their reaction.


 3:59 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well I am Irish and I love beer and must have some more... got a good buz going now, smiling.

But one thing each time I add a new page of content to my site today I am rewarded with another Polish Okocim 6%.

That is how I reward myself now with this sick new Jagger update.

So off to writing again, by the fourth page this 500 ml bottle boy gonna be havin' a good ole time.

To add (in order to meet WebmasterWorld guidelines of being on topic) I would say that I do agree we will be finding more changes soon, hold tight but keep doing the right things but don’t tell Google anymore what they are please people.

Ciao - buona notte alle signore belle


 4:14 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Delete it if you can Steveb... I'm sharing info with my fellow webbies.

An SEO Blog and a press release newswire?

Hardly the stuff of rocking the foundations.. I looked at both those links and for the life of me can't see the importance, especially in regards to the forum policies here.

Most of it is stuff everyone here already knows. Not sure why you feel it is so special.


 4:51 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yeah, those weren't particularly eye opening links, although the press release one is a bit more interesting, quite a bit, than your average google story.

Must have been some other point to that, or maybe none?

Anyway, I'll watch steveb enter enthusiastically into this jagger discussion after watching him last week deny that this update even existed when it clearly did, have to add some more grains of salt here and there I think...

"you can't post links, that's all"

No, you can post links to relevant authority type resources, primary sources etc, but WebmasterWorld decided not to allow blog links recently, not the best idea given that blogs are becoming one of the prime news delivery systems around, especially for tech stuff, plus what's the difference between a simple cms and a blog anyway, not much if you ask me. Blogs are getting more important, especially for breaking news, but the choice was made, have to follow the rules, they tend to work pretty well here.


 5:20 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Good morning Folks!

Very nice to be back home on the "original" place of WebmasterWorld. Thanks a bunch Brett & Co for a great well done job.

Ok. Back to business ;-)

We should expect the second stage of Jagger to start tomorrow (or maybe already today).

I wish GoogleGuy or Matt tell us what´s the first stage dealt with and what will the second stage deal with too. Not to mention the third stage, of course ;-)


 5:54 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

"I'll watch steveb enter enthusiastically into this jagger discussion after watching him last week deny that this update even existed when it clearly did"

Um, you aren't going to be this silly now are you? You were talking about something that obviously was not an "update" weeks ago. A three stage update began about a week ago, and has about two more weeks to it. You want to stretch that all the way back a month before that! Sheesh, give it a rest will ya? Next you'll say the update started in February.

Google has flux every single day. Every day, whether you like it or not. Some flux is more significant than others. Big deal.

But just like before every update this year, which you would know if you paid attention to threads then too, Google has been throwing tons of stuff into the index before each update. This includes a lot of obvious spam, plus tons of supplementals. Some sites come back because of this, while others disappear because of the supplemental poison. The update culls out a lot of the spam, but the supplemental and/or canonical death is not dealt with.

Now back to reality. We have been told to expect an update this week, and further developments, specifically involving canonical stuff, next week or so.


 6:55 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I thing I am hit by Jagger because of crosslinking.
This filter hit my on Florida update. Since that I have stoped to do that. I have only one exception. For every lanquage I use another domain (www.Prague.st, www.Prag,st, www.Praha.st). On every site I have now three flags every links to another domain.
Could I be right? When yes how to solve it?


 7:36 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm noticing a lot of internal pages have turned URL-only (supplement?) in this update. Pages that had been fine previously. In my case, not junk or duplicate either.

Also noticed that Google no longers knows how to 'relate' (related:) my site to others. Has always been able to in the past (it's about four years old now).

Finally, noticed that it's trying to list the shopping basket script, dozens of times over! IE /cgi-bin/add.pl?action=add&access=productpage&product=799
And, suspect that proper affiliate links (eg through affiliatewindow) are being indexed and tracked. Pages with only such links on them are showing up in people's backlinks.

To me this looks like the "who's got the biggest one" competition with Yahoo finally back fired and they filled the index up with junk. Either that or they messed the crawl up.

Anyone agree?


[edited by: suggy at 7:37 am (utc) on Oct. 25, 2005]


 7:36 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

as we know this update has affected different areas in
different ways/time so maybe we did not all see it in our
areas at the same time.

I and others here saw the update happening at the begining of the
month. We were not allowed to call it an update then. The original
thread here was even locked for daring to mention it.

There were a number of result sets out there and the one I
was praying would not get rolled out did on the 17th.

Since then I have been in limbo, I can see some trends and
some possible reasons why my little old sites have been
blown away. Now the word is that the update is in three
parts, well OK so I am waiting..

I am also worried about modifying a site to avoid a
possible Google penalty/filter AND still rank correctly
on the other search engines which all seem more or
less fine at the moment...

Wait and see what happens in stage 2 and 3... I know...
better be good after all this!

[edited by: cleanup at 7:38 am (utc) on Oct. 25, 2005]


 7:38 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Steve, I'm talking about the thing that google was running through their data centers to test it, and which went live a little while ago, then was christened jagger, that wasn't a month ago although it may seem like it from WebmasterWorld's problems recently, this was the week before the official christening of jagger phase 1.

More specifically, I'm talking about a series of changes which were, as I said then, and still say now, clearly indicating a very interesting new direction in google's method, but which you felt were not even worth calling an update at that point. By the way, the changes haven't changed much, the first draft, the one most of us thought was an update, is what I'm looking at now, in slightly modified form, the stuff I called an update during the testing phase that is, and which you above still seem to have difficulty seeing as such.

However, since we all now agree that the update is an update, we're all happily back on the same page, just have to keep brushing those grains of salt off my keyboard.

I think you might take a closer look at how you are thinking about this stuff, it's not as tight as it usually is, something wrong? This isn't quite like you. Maybe a bad sample set, what is it, bad premises, looking for things that aren't there and missing what is?

oh, darn, cut my feet on some broken glass, have to watch that, ouch....


 8:14 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

My morning ritual: get up, switch computer on, check a few keywords, hold head in hands and mutter under breath "oh for flux sake". I'm not normally morose but I think my member name was well chosen.


 8:15 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

mountdoom, what are you seeing in your area, what type of drops, how many positions, etc?

Are you seeing more than one site you do drop in a topic area, etc? See any connections that make sense to you?


 8:37 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Had several hundred top 10 phrases, now most are lost in the land of the giants. Site is down by 3000 visitors a day. Despite this, I am holding on to my toys and won't be throwing them out of the pram until the promised 3rd update.

You know, I never write to forums (this is only my second post), which puts me in the majority - I watch and read and wait. It would be interesting to hear from Brett just how busy Webmasterworld has become since this latest Google update - it might give us an indication of the strength of feeling (misery?) out there.


 8:45 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well so far not seen huge changes in last week. Some different results (3 sets) that I have seen depending on time and datacenter.

Traffic wise slightly up last 3 days, but we added new content streams so might be due to that...nothing big.

But hopefully tonight we will see something...this should be the second stage...which I guess will be main serps one? The third being Dayo's pet subject.

I did note something odd happened the other night, for about 3 hours. Not sure what but it effected our status in Google News, so must have been something significant...but it went back to whatever it was before.


 9:11 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>But hopefully tonight we will see something...this should be the second stage...which I guess will be main serps one? The third being Dayo's pet subject.

:) - Yes, I would assume if G are running on target then second stage tonight or tomorrow night.

Still not convinced stage 1 has reached all DCs - although it is hard to track as DCs always seem different to me.


 9:52 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just an interesting observation from my stats this morning. Although my overall traffic was down as much as 70% in the beginning of Jagger I am now seeing a slight upward trend (up as much as 5%). The most interesting observation is the fact that in my logs early am in the United States I am not seeing any foreign google searches. In fact my stats for US and Canada search have increased percentage wise from 70% to 82% This would correlate with what was hinted by Google Guy early in this thread when he made reference to Madweb's post and Geo targeting.

Not sure if this all of what Jagger is all about, but I thought I post this as an observation.


 10:15 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Welcome back, Brett.

3 big steps up in traffic over the last 3 days -- 30%, 42%, 12% -- after several initial rollercoaster days from start of Jagger (10/15, right?).


 10:25 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just on a quick side note, what programs do you guys use to monitor key words? PM me :)



 10:26 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

>after several initial rollercoaster days from start of Jagger (10/15, right?).

it started for me on the 19th so far pulled everything back plus a little more


 11:00 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

things are still not coming back in this updates for my sites. since this socall updates or everflux (whatever) came in late september, my site was affected (dropped from first page result to rank #90+). in my area....google has a totally NEW top 20-30 SERP results for most of the money terms ...

i am prety frustrated on this updates... why? not because of google drop my site. its because of i am seeing MY OWN articles in four of the top ten results (ranked #4,5 and #7,8) for one of the money terms. NONE of these four results are from my site -- all four, yes, ALL FOUR are from a huge article collections site ...two of them got my permissions to use the contents, while for other two ...i dont even know they exist before this updates. further more, the new top result in this term, is a page that comes from a site with unrelated theme, that just simply put up some sales-copy type contents and affiliate links.

it seems that sites with large site sizes win it all in this updates. forget about unique contents, forget about link building, and forget about proper internal linking structure... all you need is just a site with 100k+ pages and keyword^rich link pointing to all your target-pages ..with this, you can rank in any keywords.

Thanks for listening my rant. if you are looking for your joke of the day, try type on "failure" into your google search box and press "i"m feeling lucky" - thats the BEST JOKE i ever seen this year.



 11:14 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

The sites I'm seeing lording it over my SERPS are big name brands - never mind that they have very little to do with the competitive 2-keyword phrase itself as long as Google finds each of the words separately ("keyword1" , "keyword2" instead of "keyword1 keyword2" phrase). It started on Sept 22 for us, and things still look bleak.


 11:22 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi Folks

For the benifit of further discussion and our new kind fellow members, I´m recalling the 3 most important Jagger Update posts of our good friends at the plex; Matt and GoogleGuy.

msg #:40

Senior Member

view member profile
joined-Oct 8, 2001
msg #:40 new post indicator11:43 pm on Oct 18, 2005 (utc 0)

Just to recap:
- I currently expect new PR/backlinks to be visible in a few days. I'll let you know if that changes.
- madweb had an interesting observation in message #816 of this thread:
I believe that there is a new binary wending its way out from the group of data centers that included 66.102.7.x . Most people won't notice much difference between data centers, but I believe that those searches are likely to be closer to what to expect.

So just to set expectations, there will still be quite a bit of flux for people to expect near-term. We'll be setting up a way for people to pass us feedback.


And Matt Cutts - October 19, 2005

Finally, GoogleGuy posted yesterday or so that a new binary is also wending its way from data centers like 66.102.7.x. And I wouldn’t be surprised if a second stage of the index rolls out around this time next week. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a third stage of the index rolls out the week after that. I just wanted to let people know that there’s still flux to come.



msg #:29

Senior Member

view member profile
joined-Oct 8, 2001
msg #:29 8:07 pm on Oct 20, 2005 (utc 0)

Dayo_UK, you're going to want to wait a couple weeks. The third stage of Jagger is the most likely to bring canonicalization changes. We're still in stage one at this point. If you still see issues after that, I'd let us know.


Awaiting more weather reports from Matt & GG. Thanks!

Archive Master - Reseller :-)

[edited by: reseller at 11:26 am (utc) on Oct. 25, 2005]


 11:26 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

On many of the serps the first page is filled with big companies. Pages after that have non relevant pages and supplementals. Then on page ~10 you start seeing good websites with relevant info. Why? Because these are the sites that used to be on top but have dropped down several pages.

The update is still in progress but I wouldn't be too optimistic in seeing your sites make a sudden comeback. Google has changed the way they rank websites which means there is something about the dropped sites that G doesn't like.

Though I still hope people would find my 2 main WH sites when searching for the site name or the domain address in brackets. If I search for "www.mydomain.com" I get 8 results and my site is last. Even Matt Cutts' blog ranks above me just because I mentioned the url in my comment.

But hey, his site is PR7 and I'm only PR4...


 11:33 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hmm a googleguy comment on the non www topic, that could be good news, maybe they are realy doing something in this update, well I hope so, if we are lucky we will also see corrections on the supplemental issue, 302 linking.


 11:35 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)


Yes, I am cautiously optomistic too.

I am seeing some intresting things, especially in allinanchor searches at the moment on a couple of sites I monitor :)


 11:53 am on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Dayo - if I take a look at my own site which got hit by the 302 links on google, I dont see any changes, still the non www in the serps after 5 month of 301 and about 600 pages of non www pages in the index, also I see former hijackers/302 links still in the index, but ok they are supplemental, but there caches are still a copy of our site, but the site has removed those 302 links.

Ok googleguy said we will first see real changes later, so I wait, here the 3 nov 2004. my site got hit, maybe it will be back after a YEAR.

One more think I think if they update there supplemental DB alot would have been done to there troubles.


 2:13 pm on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

This is my first post in this forum: hello everybody.
I'm a spanish girl and it's very difficult to me explain my problem and express my frustration.
My web is now disappeared with Jagger update.
I've been in first page with all my important keywords, first position since a lot of time, and now I'm in page 4 or 5 only for some keywords (most of them, disappered).
PR is like always, so I guess that I'm not penalized.
The worst thing is that in my place in first page, first position, now is another page with hide text, with a redirection in the link which gives google and with a lot of photos that were stolen from my page..
I've wrote a reinclusion request to Google, like GoogleGuy recommends in his blog, and this is the thing more stupid that I've done in my life because I knew that a robot will answer me, and I did it..
So now, my web is like a stray dog and me..
I´m a stupid girl.
Regards for everybody.


 2:19 pm on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)


Sorry to hear that and welcome to WW.

A lot of people are in the same position you are right now and so far no one seems to have any answers. There are two more updates coming so hopefully some of the issues will get resolved.


 2:27 pm on Oct 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I posted this over in the searchengine world thread yesterday. Wanted to say it again.
The most astounding thing I have sen in this update is a site I reported to google as being spam was banned about 2 months ago. I thought "hurrah". Google finally acted on a complete blackhat site I reported. Never seen them do it before. The site uses about 100 phony pages with keyword url's. It is an old site recently redone by a seo firm that uses nothing but blackhat. All the pages are non existent. All use a js redirect to the main page. Well they were banned and pr stripped and backlinks gone.
Yesterday, they were back. enjoying top listings for 2 word phrases. Their phony sitemaps are #1 in all their keyword combinations. Their pr and backlinks are still gone and they have not changed anything.
My point is-is google using a wayback machine to produce results? Seems like the same results as 3 months ago.
How can a site be reincluded without cleaning up? This is a real mystery. Is it inside influence in google?

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