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This 930 message thread spans 31 pages: < < 930 ( 1 ... 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 [31]     
Update Jagger, Google Update Oct 18th, 2005
When can we expect a new PR update?
jretzer

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 5:33 pm on Oct 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued from here:
[webmasterworld.com...]



Anyone have any guesses as to when we can expect a new systemwide PR update?

 

MHes

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 8:46 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Any comments?

So what are you going to do, go on strike? Please do, less competition :)

Atomic

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 8:49 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think it's important to understand what a union does and how it operates before thinking about forming one.

erny



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 8:50 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Please do, less competition "
Great comment indeed.

Eazygoin

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 8:51 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Biggles 308
Page rank on the google toolbar for all my sites is now 0. Am I correct that if I had been banned then the pagerank bar would be greyed out the way it is if you are logged into a secure site like your bank account. If it is white and mouseover says PR is 0 out of 10, then google has not banned me, just thinks I'm not worth much.

Theoretically this is the case, or at least that the site isn't listed. But I would much rather do a site:www.yourwebsite.com search

erny



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 8:51 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Atomic check at
[wslc.org...]

biggles338

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 8:53 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have just been looking at who I do get traffic from, now that it is not google. I see that it comes from a range of sites with a very similar format. Under an affiliate banner, a Google ad, and another banner they have an adsense large rectangle on the left side of the page, and a link to me on the right side top with several hundred words scraped from my site under the link.
I guess they are showing up in one of the SE's as I am getting quite a bit of traffic from them, but only about 10% of what I was getting from google, and now I have had 2 days of zero traffic from google.
Is it possible that jagger is identifying my content as duplicate to the site that has "borrowed" it? I also use as much adsense as the rules allow - I can't believe that google would penalise a site that uses adsense within it's rules, but perhaps? I do put all the adsense I'm allowed above the fold, so the user has to scroll to see the content. I have changed that a week ago on three sites as a test, but so far no change in the page hits, just a drop in revenue (lower CTR) for those sites, and googlebot has visited those sites several times a day since the change, so presumably has seen that the adsense is now not all at the top of the page.

If nothing else, this update has focussed my attention on my sites, and I have discovered a few errors to fix! But I do miss the traffic!

andrea99



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 8:54 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

MHes:
why employ an seo?

Why indeed, there does seem to be a penalty for it.

There is an inherent conflict of interest where an SEO has to make unrealistic promises to a client to get the account and the search engine(s) have allowed SEO to run riot so that all must use it--and then BAM, a crack down because of abuse...

A severe lack of coordination, where spam and abuse are the opposite of coordination.

Markets are about making the other guy bleed, deal with it. I have always avoided SEO because I saw this day coming, my biggest surprise is that it took so long, shame on you Google.

Atomic

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 8:54 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Atomic check at
[wslc.org...]

Oh man, you didn't even read it!

Working people in all walks of life join together in unions to gain a voice at work. Union members have a say about pay, benefits, working conditions and how their jobs get done -- and having that say gives them a "union advantage."

This is within an organization! Are you saying you work for Google? Read it and get back to me.

MHes

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:00 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks Erny

I have just sent a spam report on that Union site.... we can't have this kind of nonsense getting in the way of us spammers.

biggles338

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:03 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks Easygoin,

Site: on all my sites says not found, but a google search on the mainword (www.mainword.com) finds several hundred pages and several hundred more that link to me, for all the sites. I have done link exchanges over the last 2 months, but only with sites where the main topic is the same or a subset of mine. Only about 150 links across 7 sites.

I'm a tad confused - I don't think I have done anything that google should consider black hat, but I've only a year in this game, so maybe? I have regularly checked #*$! and built pages that target high KEI search terms from wordtracker, but they are 100% original, and took a fair bit of research, so at least to me they have value! They also include original conclusions, that I would want to be exposed to if I was researching that topic.

I suppose I will wait until after jagger3 and check things again.

theBear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:15 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

MHes,

Now go easy on the chap.

lee_sufc

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:15 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just checked one of my keywords on google.co.uk and a site that is linking to me is displaying my link before my own site - what is going on!?!

My site has just dropped down and down throughout these updates - I hope there are some better changes for me in jagger3!

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:22 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Uhhhhh, ding, ding, ding.

I was just reading something elsewhere that was talking about how the age of a link might be a factor in the ranking process. Someone then said that the data storage needed for that would be enormous; just where would they store it all?

Then it hit me... it is in the cache copies of all those junky old supplemental pages from 18 months ago that Google will not throw away... that's where all the old linking data is stored.

biggles338

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:25 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't want to report the spam sites because at least I am getting some traffic from them, and it is converting to sales. I have had zero from google for over 2 full days now.

I guess as a project manager I should have had a better risk management plan, and diversified my advertising space and my methods for getting hits. Lesson learned, and I'm doing it now.

theBear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:26 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

g1smd,

Could be, but that is an terrible amount of overhead to carry just for dates.

MHes

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:26 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

theBear
I'm sure erny realises that no offence is meant. I just can't get my head around a union of webmasters. It would be like a union of pick pockets!

joergnw10

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:33 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>It would be like a union of pick pockets<<

Good concept! What about a union of artists against galleries not displaying their work?

kevinpate

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:35 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

> union of pick pockets
Some would say that's applicable to all such organizations :)

fwiw: I'm not one of the some, but I've met more than a few of the some over the years

theBear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:35 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

MHes,

Sort of like the thieves guild?

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:35 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> My hope is Google is moving on from ranking sites predominantly based on linking. If that was de-emphasized and other aspects, like the amount of time a visitor actually spends clicking through the site, were given greater weight in the algo, things might improve. <<

How can Google see visitors clicking round your site (they can if adsense is delivered to the page, but there is no other way)?

If they could, then all that the spammers would do would be to let multiple clickbots traverse their sites faking the visitor numbers...

biggles338

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:35 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi MHes,

I spent years in the corporate world. There are many unions there, and the trick is to find common goals amongst the competitors for the business. And then use the resources of those competitors to promote the acceptance of those common goals.

After that it is every man (or person) for him(their)self.

The union can create the brand awareness, but then you are on your own.

If a group can make google listen to webmasters that would be great. To get google to listen to you as an individual webmaster requires that you asist in getting them to listen to webmasters, and then get them to listen to you specifically. Good Luck, but I believe it can be done, if we focus on the benefits to google, as google see it.

randle

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:38 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

How can Google see visitors clicking round your site

[toolbar.google.com...]

[google.com...]

[edited by: randle at 9:40 pm (utc) on Oct. 28, 2005]

greenfrog

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:38 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

How much will serps change from here? When Jagger3 comes around should I expect that index will change drastically?

Yippee

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:45 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> Would seem to me it could operate initially with pretty modest dues and a pretty small staff. I guess one initial issue would be that I would argue the association should be world wide as is the web and we all face the same problems, but that raises language and other issues. <<

I would just suggest it be free, and donations are welcomed. I will build it and host it.

>> There are many unions there, and the trick is to find common goals amongst the competitors for the business. And then use the resources of those competitors to promote the acceptance of those common goals. <<

The idea is not to stand up to G, but to help move close to what everyone understands the standards for SERPs are. Give us a bit more rational while the majority of our livelihoods have disappeared before our eyes. AND don't pull that crap that SEs are not there to be depended on. YES THEY ARE. As large and controling as they are, they deserve to be depended on. Furthermore, allow us the webmasters to discipline our own versus have some big gorilla tell us how to behave. It will be important for this type of union to have a close relationship with all the SEs. Whether this is blue skies or not, someone is bound to come out and do a remake of DMOZ with more of a lobby arm. Until then, let's all keep our eyes closed and stick our noses as far up where the sun don't shine.

Now, I see it as this. Simple. All our monies have been relocated into that over rated stock. We are all scratching our heads on where our revenues went. Guess where it's at? Dig your nose deeper, you might get a sniff of it.

For those interested in uniting, sticky me and perhaps we can get some sort of framework going.

PS. Go ahead and try explaining to dubnoir below what happened to him on Sept. 22nd. I am sure he will be rational and in complete understanding.

[edited by: Yippee at 9:57 pm (utc) on Oct. 28, 2005]

theBear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:48 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

randle,

Prefetch can be refused and not every one uses the google tool bar.

Google however sure has a pile of places it taps into things so it has somewhat of an idea.

dubnoir

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:48 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy,

can you tell us what happened on September 22nd? what measures were taken?

cheers, dn

erny



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:49 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

"If a group can make google listen to webmasters that would be great"
well said biggles338
"The idea is not to stand up to G, but to help move close to what everyone understands the standards for SERPs. "
well said Yippee
Let us hope that something maybe great will come out from this thread.

MHes

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:51 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi biggles338

The only common goal is to get good rankings. There is no stick to wave in order to achieve this. There's no motivation or reason why Google should listen to webmasters in order to help them get free traffic! In fact, the Google line should be "Pay us and we will show your site.... the more you pay, the higher we will rank you" - its called adwords.

People who suggest that Google owe us because they use our content to make up their pages are missing the point. If Google doesn't show your site... then they are not using your content! If they are, sit back and enjoy the ride. The words 'gift' and 'horse' come to mind.

randle

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:57 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google however sure has a pile of places it taps into things so it has somewhat of an idea.

At the heart of it, Google is a data mining monster. There collecting incredible amounts of information and they are a lot more interested in user behavior than whether your site has a few extra key words stuffed into it.

[edited by: randle at 10:00 pm (utc) on Oct. 28, 2005]

Atomic

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 31688 posted 9:58 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

People who suggest that Google owe us because they use our content to make up their pages are missing the point. If Google doesn't show your site... then they are not using your content! If they are, sit back and enjoy the ride. The words 'gift' and 'horse' come to mind.

This is a key concept. Google is not some gigantic webmaster entitlement program.

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