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Update Jagger, Google Update Oct 18th, 2005
When can we expect a new PR update?

 5:33 pm on Oct 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued from here:

Anyone have any guesses as to when we can expect a new systemwide PR update?



 11:43 am on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Let me be the first to say: the results on really suck! Keep on shuffling.


 11:50 am on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)


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msg #:338 9:37 am on Oct 26, 2005 (utc 0)

normasp, there's a way to tell us about the hidden text. Just do a spam report (search on Google) and use the keyword jagger2.


Today is my day!
I can see my web again at updated DC's and after my second post in this forum GoogleGuy noticed me..
I'm so excited..

[edited by: normasp at 11:52 am (utc) on Oct. 26, 2005]


 11:51 am on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Difficult to be sure. Have you really checked all back links via alltheweb or an engine that shows them

I have scanned using MSN and Yahoo and taken unique results. If your brand name is a competitive keyword then you would be hurt, if its abccompanyname then you would rank.

Is it necessarily one keyword appearing in high % of anchors? or different keywords, which are money keywords appearing in a high % of anchors?

Keyword or different keywords or keyword1 keyword2 which would be keyword1keyword2.com.

Yes, these are on the money keywords, not company name as said above.


 11:55 am on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

well if is showing J2 then I'm happy

Patrick Taylor

 12:01 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Dayo_UK: So at the moment dont look for what is not there and should be - but look at what is there but shouldn't.

Wise words, I think. No point judging our own rankings for another week, maybe.


 12:08 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am still puzzled about the PR distribution though. First time all sub pages receive a PR (which is 4) but the HP still remains at a 3, how does that go together when all incoming links hit the HP?


 12:14 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

well hopefully is not stable yet.
"direction in which things are moving" doesnt mean its tables of stone, does it?


 12:22 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0) has the best results I've seen in a long time.

Patrick Taylor

 12:25 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

puzzled about the PR distribution

I've seen this too. Possibly a result of the internal linking structure.


 12:25 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)


>>I guess for a lot of us stage 3 is where it is all going to happen.

Afterall GG says for ranking problems then wait until after stage 3 before sending reports etc.<<

I guess stage 3 would be to deal with both the Canonical & Supplementals issues. Accordingly and Expectedely we might see in future two happy gentlemen; Dayo_UK and steveb :-)

>>Spam feedback is what is required now - so I assume that most of the spam filters are being put in place on 66.102.9.* <<



Please start reporting those spammers here:


In the “Additional details:” section, you would use the keyword “jagger2″ (that’s “jagger” and the number two with no spaces in between).


[edited by: reseller at 12:36 pm (utc) on Oct. 26, 2005]


 12:29 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

On I appear to be out of the sandbox for my main term. Was buried at 250 something for the past 8 months and now showing on page 5. On related similar words I've got several #1s. Finally.

Jagger 2 baby.


 12:30 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

JuniorOptimizer - you're not the only one who isn't happy with those rsults - my site has dropped in rankings considerably but I can't find a reason why?!? My PR went up to 6 yet ranknigs are continuously dropping?


 12:47 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

-Jagger2 results look slightly better overall in my market areas. There are still several directories and "reveiw" sites ranking decently well with no real content and just a ton of keywords splattered all over. But not that much change from Jagger1.

-My backlinks also changed on the jagger2 results, but no change in PR. Has anyone noticed a change in PR on any site but MSN with the Jagger2 results?

-For the people still killed by jagger, my main site has almost recovered with jagger2. As hard as it was to sit on my hands while my site was buried, it seems like it was again the right move. From experience, my advice is don't over-react and start changing things during an update. I'm not sure I've recovered yet from the last time I did that.


 12:52 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

The ironic thing is that the people who profited from this update live in ivory towers. They don't post here.

Or maybe those of us whose traffic has been going up since this update started are just reading gathering data and because we're not hurting we're not posting.

I heard that this update has penalized travel sites--one of the most competitive markets. I have been analysing websites for someone in the travel industry and found multiples of common problems on all his websites. They are basically copies of each other--only the main keywords change in different cities and too many affilliate links compared to original content along with AdSense on every page, ie. a Thin Affiliate which have been penalized of late. He also has thousands of backlinks accredited to each site which were probably gained by one of those "submit to thousands of websites" programs which produce nothing but garbage links. All his sites suffer from the same problems, a lot of which have been discussed in this recent update.

The sites reek of being designed solely for the purpose to make money off the affifliates, AdSense and site wide links on every site to his other sites. All his sites are designed to promote his own sites--there is not enough original content to benefit the user. And thus those sites have dropped out of sight and he's having to do a complete redesign of alllll his websites because he followed bad advice.

If the above mirrors your own site stop and consider the visitor to your site. Are you offering what they need or are you just trying to make money off them?

Content is still King!


 1:00 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>happy gentlemen; Dayo_UK

Yes, if they get it right Reseller :)

Still hard to see how a site that has been dead as a duck for a while can come back - but if they get the homepage correct then it will hopefully be like breathing life back into it.


 1:06 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thank you Google! Please make those new results stick. Two sites 9 mos and 5 mos both out of the box with decent rankings (not page 1 though). White hat all the way.

So what color hat does Jagger wear? I have been using my now favorite SE - Google to look for a pic of Mick wearing a hat.. cant find any.. anyone?


 1:08 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

No need to report spam yet the update is not over.


 1:13 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

"does anyone disagree with the notion that this update is heavily skewed in favor of content sites vs e-commerce driven?"

We are mainly a content site that also has affiliate marketing and advertising- to put it bluntly, we have had the Google kicked out of us!

Excuse me GoogleGuy, but "The quality team may wait until Jagger3 is visible somewhere before delving into the non-spam index feedback."

Does that mean that maybe by the time we have the JaggerGreatGrandson14 update we can be in the black again. Happy holidays to you too!


 1:15 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Very strange things are happening IMO:

My Pagerank 5 website has no cloackingpages whatsoever. Everything is optimized thru the "white-hat" SEO way.
My site allmost doesn't show up in Google, i used to be nr1,2,3 etc. for a lot of keywords and now i'm on page 4 and 5!

When i type my domainname like #*$!#*$!.nl in Google, all the backlinks like DMOZ are showing up with the name in it, but my own domain doesn't.
There are no visual signs of a ban because all the backlinks are ok, the pagerank is till PR5 and a lot pf PR4 html's and the descriptions are also good.

If i understand correctly this is the way "Jagger" is working:

- Jagger1 - active last week (PR updates)
- Jagger2 - is running now
- Jagger3 - will start today or in a couple of days and will end somewhere next week.

I have no paid backlinks, i don not sell backlinks.

Will my site be back in the top of Google or is it over and out for me?

Kind regards,


 1:17 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am seeing minor changes on for the keywords that I monitor. My 2 sites (both related to spanish property) are still nowhere! Both used to rank really well. Getting very concerned now!

The only thing I can think may have affected them is that we converted all our dynamic urls to static urls (about 90% of pages of each site). We used 301s when we did this about 6 - 8 weeks ago.

Other sites I monitor are still ranking well for their traditional keywords but are nowhere for their newer pages and keywords.

I also see sites using coop ad network (I don't use it) acutally ranking better for some key phrases now.

Just can't make sense of any of it!


 1:20 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

If i understand correctly this is the way "Jagger" is working:

- Jagger1 - active last week (PR updates)
- Jagger2 - is running now
- Jagger3 - will start today or in a couple of days and will end somewhere next week.


Jagger1 - I Guess this is done (Included changes in displayed PR and BL - although this could be thought of as seperate)
Jagger2 - Started today and will probably end next week.
Jagger3 - Will start next week hopefully (Wednesday probably at the earliest)

Will my site be back in the top of Google or is it over and out for me?

Look again during or near the end of Jagger3


 1:27 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ok thank you very much for clearing that out Dayo_UK!

I hope after the Jagger3 update my website is visible again...


 1:36 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Should I wait until Jagger 3 to start freaking out?

Jagger 1 looked like a pretty normal update for us (moved up in some areas, down in others) but Jagger 2 is terrible. Sites wiped out for no reason. Not doing anything spammy. The only things I can think of that I have changed are good things such as changing javascript menus to CSS. And made a mod_rewite change so people can't link directly to my images. But that shouldn't make a difference at all.

This will bum me out pretty bad if it sticks.


 1:39 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

RusselC, i can shake your hand because if the results of Jagger2 stay as they are now, i can close my business.


 1:41 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I can shake both your hands as I could probably close my business too! I am hoping these results change over the upcoming days / weeks!


 1:49 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Likewise! I described jagger as a three course meal. The starter came with a stomach pump it was so bad. The main course has just crawled off my plate. I await the desert..


 1:51 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)


Too early to judge already now. You may wish to read what Matt wrote today on his blog:

Not much more I can add to that. Even on, it will still take a day or so for the changes to be fully visible at that data center.

Lets wait and see ;-)


 1:53 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

reseller - I hope you're right....lets keep our fingers crossed...

In the meantime, I need to do something to take my mind of this update - it's taking over my life - I get up, check my rankings, go to bed, check my rankings etc etc :-)


 1:55 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I know exactly what you mean, it's frustrating as hell since i 100% depend on Google as my main income. Wheter or not that is clever, it stays frustrating.

But hey, there is a solution for every problem.


 1:59 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi Guys. Not posted on here before, but my site has gone from strength to strength during these updates, as have my blogs, so its not all bad news. My backlinks dropped by 2 last week, but shot up today.

It seems that such an enormous update will take time to settle, and until then, results will not be reliable.


 2:00 pm on Oct 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I know - we shouldn't rely on Google so much but after all the work I, and probably many other people put into their site, it knocks you back when you see your site slide down the rankings suddenly without knowing why...

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