My guess is that google spots all the duplicates, and assigns the sites some negative karma points.
In some cases it incorrectly flags the original along with the copiers.
The copiers aren't ranking inplace of the original because they don't have the links / trust / whatever the original does, but due to the negative points the original is filtered out.
IMO the issue is how to get rid of the negative points.
I'm not going to do anything for a few days as these things often bounce around for a bit, but I see a few ways to sort it:
1. Change my content - a bit wrong to have to do it, but probably the quickest and easiest way
2. Contact the copiers and ask them to remove my content - yeah right, don't really think that'll work
3. C&D / DMCA - slow and quite a painful proocess
4. Spam reports - I don't usually do that, but hey it's costing me $$ so why not. From what others have said, a bit hit and miss
Assuming it is duplicate sites / pages that are causing the issue, what other approaches are people thinking of doing to try and resolve it? or are you just going to sit it out?
I've been a member here since 2002 (different names) and people have been preaching the demise of Google since then, and probably long before I came along.
I wish it were true that Google was going the way of Alta Vista, but it's like the jerk at work that never gets fired. You all know that guy. He's a total SOB, but somehow, it's the guys with families that get fired/laid off. Never him. The jerk keeps his job.
It's like living in backwards country.
The spammer gets top ranking, and I get sliced off at the knees for writing original content.
Yes I would like to know what options there are.
I would rewrite the pages if I thought it would work (and keep working) but what I really dread is that a site attracts a penalty and keeps it, like in Yahoo.
I too am hoping that Google sort things out as they have tended to do in the past, I still have confidence, although I have never seen the SERPs so screwed before.
G isn't broken, hijackers using your work to rank better than you dont looks good of course, but if users like your site will back again to SERPs. One directory of my site was been penalized for 2 weeks only, back again doing very well, by manual check I guess because traffic has strongly growing, overall traffic too. I'm a white-webmaster happy with this update. Thanks a god. :)
If any webmaster with a good original site want help/tips send a stickymail with URL, my english is very bad, but I will try be useful in my free time :)
> or are you just going to sit it out?
Yes, for a while... just noticed my other content site has gone too...totally different subject than my five year old site with no linking between them.
Google support is atrocious. Little point in e-mailing when you go in circles with the cut-and-paste reply system they have going there.
A quick basic question,
If I rewrite all the text in my site will the filter see this and not exclude the site?
or is the site in someway now marked as a duplicate for all time?
No, I don't think your site will be marked for all the time.
It would be interesting to know how long it takes until a site is back after a dup content penalty.
If you rewrite your entire website it's just going to get copied again in the future.
And nutsandbolts is right, contacting Google is a waste. Better off contacting advertisers if Adsense is shown/used.
I blame Adsense. If they had quality control measures, most of these sites wouldn't have the financial incentive to steal copy.
If I was a business owner, at least I could shoot the guy that was trying to rob me.
So do you think Google controls its SERPS by the use of filters and algoritm only?
If so could it be possible that this can be rectified by a rewrite in real time (ie the usual 2 or three days it takes for Google to pick up changes)?
Other members here have impied that it takes at least until the next full update, which is what I would suspect.
[edited by: cleanup at 9:17 am (utc) on Sep. 25, 2005]
I'am not a SEO guru, nor even a Google guru, but I have a teory (like everybody else ;)
I'am not sure the "other sites duplicated content" is the reason for lossing SERPs.
1.) Many webmasters have an original content.
2.) I checked the search result with different keyword and I found sites in the top 10 who use a same content!
3.) &filter=0 is primarily used to remove duplicates but, as I read in forums, Googleguy hinted that it may do other things as well (but nobody don't know what those other things might be)
I suggest everybody check with "site:" command, how many pages indexed by Google at the moment,
and how many pages do you have in fact!
I think the "dog is buried here" (or not:)
I have more than 183K in google index, but in fact I have only 25K pages ...
site:mysite.com shows only index at the moment but similar pages + filter=0 finds them all.
example site shows in google = 24,300 pages
actual pages = 2,400
>>So do you think Google controls its SERPS by the use of filters and algoritm only? <<
They also use "Human Quality Raters".
my site shows in google = 17,300 pages
actual pages = 1,900
When the figure 17,300 appeared my site almost vanished from SERPs.
Actually, originally a couple of months ago my site showed in Google 7,500 pages. I wrote to Google about it and got a reply that they forwarded my message to their engineers. I thought my troubles were finally over but to my astonishment in a couple of days instead of restoring my page count to 1900 they raised it to 17300!
To an onlooker this appears that I have created thousands of pages in a very short time by automated methods, thus spam. This is discrediting my site and I am seriously thinking of taking legal action.
They are abusing the power we, the websmasters, gave them and are acting like gods. Shame on them.
My site has 219 pages, which all show normal.
I'm taking the approach of going after the webmasters who steal. I can't force Google to do anything, but I can certainly force a weasel to remove my pages from his domain.
This is an unreal crime. I lose XXX daily and the guy who stole my site doesn't even rank. What a useless theft.
I don't think this has to do with the current update. Here's a better link: [mattcutts.com...] . Good find, though.
My site that was penalized in this update took a hit in the May update (around May 21). It came back in the beginning of July. I didn't do anything to the site to get it back in. I'm thinking it will come back again. Maybe in October. Again, I'm just letting it be.
I too am curious about when any alterations I make to my site will show up in the SERPS.
I have very strange results showing in my sector and when I use google.co.uk they become even more bizzare.
Looks like I was a bit late in noticing this - but I think my experiences may help make some sense...
I have quite a few sites - each on its own topic. They comprise of say 100 pages of quality content, and about 100 pages of on topic things to buy via affiliate programs.
About a month ago I updated two of them - I hadn't done much to them in ages (more than a year).
I added adsense to them.
I updated the affiliate pages.
Of all my sites, these are the only two that dropped down in rankings. However, the actual pages that used to rank well (top 5) have not changed (they contain no adsense / no affiliate content).
I don't imagine adding adsense would alter rankings.
Reading this, I tried adding '&filter=0' and saw my two sites back where they used to be.
But - when I checked for other sites containing my content by searching for a snipet off my pages that lost rankings - one site hadn't been scraped at all - the other had been scrapped by a couple sites only.
From what's been discussed, I can't help but think my updated 'affiliate content' has been seen to be more duplicate than the old affiliate content that it replaced... and has affected the whole site - not just the pages containing the 'affiliate content'.
>>Of all my sites, these are the only two that dropped down in rankings. However, the actual pages that used to rank well (top 5) have not changed (they contain no adsense / no affiliate content).<<
Here is my theory (c)Copyright 2005 by www.webmasterworld.com, All rights reserved ;-) :
If you are marked by Google as THIN AFFILIATE and have MOSTLY Affiliate referral links PLUS Any PPC spots (including AdSense) on the same page, the said page will be marked OFFENSIVE and drop in ranking
Above is to some extent in accordance with Google´s document "Spam Recognition Guide for Raters".
Well if you can't beat them then you might as well join them!
I am going to start to copy some sites see if I can make money this way. I have created original stuff that just gets stolen so I am off to the darkside...
Thanks for the link. I do remember folowing that thread. It did not really convince me at the time,
although I would be very surprised if Google were not using hand intervention on some level (why would'nt they?).
I see no reason to think they would have bothered with my little 'ol site which is quite legal an inofensive.
I noticed from a previous post that you are more than happy with the results of this update, which is great.
I am happy for you. I myself have seen a pre-bourbon site with good earnings resurface,
however, I just can't ignore the way this update is incorrectly targeting original sites and favouring automated scraper sites that are feeding off of us.
Sorry, buts that just the way I see it.
Google will either reverse it, fix it(if it is in their power) or just bumble on. There seems nothing for me to do except wait and hope.
What decent software is there to scrape and also copy entire web sites?
>>What decent software is there to scrape and also copy entire web sites? <<
C´mon you must be joking!
Because a filthy thief steal your car, you wouldn't because of that go around stealing other people cars ;-)
Why would n't I? Google is king and they don't seem to mind.
It's great to note that recently Google started taking such an interest in webmaster communications. It's been a real godsend with this "update".
I noticed from a previous post that you are more than happy with the results of this update, which is great.
I am happy for you. I myself have seen a pre-bourbon site with good earnings resurface,<<
Allegra took away 75% of my Google´s referrals. Then on 22nd July (just 11 days after my birthday) I recievd from Google a birthday gift; Lost most of the remaining 25%.
My site at present is at a pre- 22nd July situation and still waiting to return back to a pre- Allegra one day.
Happy...maybe. Because my site hasn´t been hit again so far ;-)
"Google a birthday gift; Lost most of the remaining 25"
|I am going to start to copy some sites see if I can make money this way. I have created original stuff that just gets stolen so I am off to the darkside... |
Thats' right....try to a quick fix and become part of the problem.
In the end, thieves always get theirs....
It is not stealing. Lets say it's repackaging ;o)
How many webmasters have n't ripped off printed copy or other web sites copy by changing the odd word here or there? Everyone has done it!
Just because you don't blatantly copy doesn't matter.
I wrote a whole web site from a book's contents and it is making a nice amount from affiliates.
Seems one of my sites has been caught by this as well. Had been slowly improving in the rankings for a couple of years, despite only getting a Yahoo and Dmoz listing. Other than this the inbound links have been naturally acquired, no reciprocals etc. Simply other webmasters / sites linking to the home page or a particular article. I'm linked from numerous university websites in the Uk and and have 2 links from the BBC. However the site now only shows when using the filter=0, even if the query is an obscure headline.
I find this really soul destroying as my site is mostly news and article based with 2-3 detailed articles and 10-12 news stories added a month. The content is unique and is written by one of the two editors or by a guest lecturer / academic.
There is nothing new I've done recently to the site and I can only think this filter has been triggered by other websites use of my content or a problem with the Google algo.
It makes me question remarks made in the past that other websites cannot adversely affect the listing of others. It seems as though by copying content from another site, mirroring the site, using redirects or some other technique can cause damage.
The only other consideration is that I know my site is on shared hosting and maybe other sites on the same IP are causing problems? Are other people who are experiencing the filter=0 issues also on a shared IP?
>> Are other people who are experiencing the filter=0 issues also on a shared IP?
Doubt this is the case. (No, I'm not on a shared IP - never have been)