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Domains interlinking?
Putting links in my own domains
konrad




msg:729124
 2:46 pm on Aug 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello, forgive my English.

I have a few domains, lets say domains A, B, C and D, - PR from 3 to 5.

The most important one is "A" - this is the one I want to optimize.

Right now domains do not link to each other - i.e. domain "B" does not link to domain "C", but all of them link to "A".

I've just thought that maybe I should link those domains too - I mean, that I should add links to web "B" pointing to domain "C" etc.. Reason is simple - more links, better PR.

But - and here is the question - there is a theory that Google is able to detect reciprocal links, so, Google will detect that all those domains are connected somehow, and so - the weight of those links will drop down, yes?

In other words, if one has 4 domains, and only one of them is important in the context of SEO, one thing is sure - all of those domains should link to the one considered most important, but should or should not those domains link do each other? What about this "reciprocal links" detection, is this a fact, or just a theory?

 

lammert




msg:729125
 8:07 pm on Aug 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Reason is simple - more links, better PR

No, this is not the case. With more links you change the distribution of the pagerank among the different pages, but you don't increase the sum of the total pagerank of all pages. The reason for this is, that every page is able to distribute a fixed percentage of its current pagerank to other pages. The percentage is defined by the dampening factor. More links on a page means less PR distributed by each link.

In the original formula the percentage of distributable PR was 85%, but Google might have changed it since. Lets say, that a specific page has 1000 incoming PR votes. It can distribute 85% of these votes to other pages. If there is only one outgoing link, the page linked to will receive 850 votes. However if there are two outgoing links, each of the linked pages receives only 425 votes.

So, linking out from your site A will actually leak pagerank to your other sites, because the larger amount of links on the pages of site A will cause less percentage of the PR available for the internal pages of site A.

There might however be a good reason to link. If your sites B,C,D are on-topic, then linking from site A to them will give information to Google about the theme of site A, which might increase your position in the SERPs.

konrad




msg:729126
 8:18 pm on Aug 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

OK, thanks!

And what about this "reciprocal links" issue? Does Google see that sites links reciprocally, and does it do something with it? I know we can't know anything for sure, but what is the most probable theory now?

soapystar




msg:729127
 8:22 pm on Aug 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

actually i dont think even that is accurate...it seems to me theres a logarithmic affect of having more links on a page..so the more links on a page they give out even less pr per link....

i.e 2 links might give out 50% each after the oriinal dampening affect..but ten links may be giving out 9% each instead of ten..and so on....

now that may be more in affect for outbound links rather than internal links..that would make more sense..would make some link farms all but worthless....

lammert




msg:729128
 8:31 pm on Aug 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

i.e 2 links might give out 50% each after the oriinal dampening affect..but ten linksmay be giving out 9% each instead of ten..and so on....

I don't know, I just took to original algorithm. Google might have added it in future enhancements of the pagerank calculation to fight pages with large numbers of links. However this would hurt the pages linked to more, than the page that is delivering the link.

About reciprocal linking: If you find it useful for the users, then there is no problem. The Google algorithm does not penalize all reciprocal links. I am co-editor of a large site where all pages are on seperate subdomains and are heavily interlinked. Yet, many of these pages rank #1 for their main keyword. No penalty whatsoever.

soapystar




msg:729129
 8:39 pm on Aug 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

The Google algorithm does not penalize all reciprocal links. I am co-editor of a large site where all pages are on seperate subdomains and are heavily interlinked. Yet, many of these pages rank #1 for their main keyword. No penalty whatsoever.

well your actually covering several different topics. Not least as to whether subdomain links are internal or outbound links...you didnt give enough information for us to determine where the rankings factors are for those pages...are you saying the only links are from subdomains....i never said anything about penalties anyway..i was just responding to the simplified notion of number of links on a page giving out an equal amout of pr per link..of course its not just pr they are giving out its relevance..so where that link is on a page counts too..the surrounding text..is it top middle or bottom etc....too many people are still too way caught up in the idea of pr and cant see the wood for the trees..just my opinion of course..i could be quite wrong....

:)

lammert




msg:729130
 12:46 pm on Aug 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

well your actually covering several different topics.

I was actually answering two different questions. The second paragraph was to respond to konrads post, not yours. So maybe this added to the confusion.

are you saying the only links are from subdomains

Most of them yes, most others are from scraper sites that scraped the SERPs and found the pages in TOP positions. Most links from the subdomains are from pages with unrelated--but unique--content.

i never said anything about penalties anyway

No, but I wasn't answering you. Konrad asked if Google would do anything with reciprocal linking. Because of the way he formulated his post I assumed he was asking for negative effects.

of course its not just pr they are giving out its relevance (...) too many people are still too way caught up in the idea of pr and cant see the wood for the trees

Yep, there are many factors that are relevant, but PR still counts. PR is important for getting in the index and getting your pages spidered on a regular base. One link from a high PR daily spidered page can get a new site within no time in the index. But ranking is determined by many other factors these days. Despite of these other factors, high PR doesn't hurt a site and it is always good to think about the best way to distribute PR around your sites.

walkman




msg:729131
 1:04 pm on Aug 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> Reason is simple - more links, better PR

in 1998 maybe. If these domains mean something to you, I wouldn't interlink them.

NotTheMSM




msg:729132
 5:55 am on Aug 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

If these domains mean something to you, I wouldn't interlink them.

Since G is a registrar (or because of Adsense), doesn't it know they're all your sites anyway? And, why would someone want to hide their own sites from their visitors? Why shouldn't I encourage a visitor to my widget site to check out my site on foobars? Isn't that a natural thing, like a bait shop also renting videos?

If G penalizes someone who just links the front pages of their sites to one another, aren't they then working against how things were done pre-G and also working against something that could be beneficial to a site's visitors?

konrad




msg:729133
 12:07 pm on Aug 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Since G is a registrar (or because of Adsense), doesn't it know they're all your sites anyway? And, why would someone want to hide their own sites from their visitors? Why shouldn't I encourage a visitor to my widget site to check out my site on foobars? Isn't that a natural thing, like a bait shop also renting videos?

If G penalizes someone who just links the front pages of their sites to one another, aren't they then working against how things were done pre-G and also working against something that could be beneficial to a site's visitors?

These domains I was talking about have different IPs.
They are visible, many websites are linking to them, I don't have to.
I'm not afraid that G will penalize my web sites for that - but I care about the "power" of links. I just suspect that every link has something like "power", which is dependent not only on the page's PR, but also on how many links are there on the page (we know that) and... if I was an engineer at G I would also make it dependent on things like:
Is there a backlink to this page from the linked page (reciprocal links)?
Is there any link on the whole domain to the page with links (reciprocal links again)?
Is the link repeated throughout the domain which links.

If any of the above is true, then those links would have less "power". That's all, no penalizing.

That's why I'm wondering if we should interlink our domains.

Johan007




msg:729134
 1:17 pm on Aug 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google might have added it in future enhancements of the pagerank calculation to fight pages with large numbers of links. However this would hurt the pages linked to more, than the page that is delivering the link.

This maybe the case for external linking but recently only in the last month or so I can confirm that pages with many internal links now actually rank like they should do and with more PageRank than in the past. Its a good move by Google not to penalise pages for having many links.

Is there a backlink to this page from the linked page (reciprocal links)?
Is there any link on the whole domain to the page with links (reciprocal links again)?
Is the link repeated throughout the domain which links.

IMO I am sure Google counts the number of IP addresses (class c) and factors that in the SERPS and not the toolbar PageRank. It’s another way to solve those ideas and proving that page rank is not everything. That’s why a large site like the BBC / CNN pages have very little PR on there pages but has more ranking power due to IP count (IMO).

walkman




msg:729135
 1:51 pm on Aug 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> Why shouldn't I encourage a visitor to my widget site to check out my site on foobars? Isn't that a natural thing, like a bait shop also renting videos?

not arguing with you, just saying that I wouldn't do it. Too many unknows, and Google might think you're doing it to increase link pop. It's true that many sites get away with, but I've seen many who don't.

Rollo




msg:729136
 2:46 pm on Aug 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'd be very careful about interlinking sites on your own network. This is the easiest way to trigger a filter and get yourself burried. If and only if the sites are on-topic you can link them together and be fine. Also, it's a good idea to forget about PR, the PR in the toolbar is widely held to be unreliable. The best thing you can do is get lots of targted links from websites dealing with the same or a topic similar to yours, regardless of their PR.

nfinland




msg:729137
 5:21 pm on Aug 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'd be very careful about interlinking sites on your own network. This is the easiest way to trigger a filter and get yourself burried. If and only if the sites are on-topic you can link them together and be fine.

I have 13 sites and 5 of them have the same topic and have a link or two to each other. Some months ago 4 of them and now also the oldest and best performing site lost nearly all of it´s Google traffic.

I have been seeking for an answer what happened, but I´m still without an answer. Could it be that I have 5 sites within the same topic and the fact that they link to each other? Seems strange logic if this would be the case. They are not heavily crosslinking or anything like that.

If you have a guess please post your thoughts!

Rollo




msg:729138
 6:43 pm on Aug 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, I guess if one or more of these sites with similar conent are considered "doorway pages" that could explain it. By on-topic content that's OK, I mean say a group of travel sites each dealing with a differnt location. What would not be OK are 5 interlinking travel sites on the same network about the same location. Google would probably look at them as a site with 4 doorways trying to unfairly crowd out other sites and respond by burring the whole lot. I'm sure some savvy webmasters here have found ways to sucecced doing this sort of thing, but sooner or later Google will figure it out so a business based on gaming the algos is generally not an optimal long term strategy.

If the sites deal with the exacy same topic, the best bet would be to roll them into one site and work on building links just to that one site (which would be more focused and easier anyway I would think).

nfinland




msg:729139
 7:47 pm on Aug 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

The all share the same topic, but I wouldn´t say the could be considered doorway pages. The reason is something else (I think). They are all content rich and unic (no duplicate content).

Actually I cannot find what they all could have in common (trying to solve what triggerd the "filter") other that the same theme and that they are owned by me. Some of them have blogs, on some I use a forum, only one has domain.com and www.domain.com, all are quite old etc.

Could it just be bad luck :-(

Venix




msg:729140
 5:03 pm on Aug 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

A guy here at WW told me not long ago that I should just forget about google and life would become so much easier. I first thought that would be a stupid move, but with my new gaming sites I did just that and trust me things are so much better when not having to think about Google and their crazy PR algo all day long.

I make the site how I want them to be, and I link them together as that is helpfull for my visitors. They are all high quality sites with great content and lots of returning visitors. My Google traffic is a good as zero but all sites do great in Yahoo and MSN. And if I get any Google traffic, great, but it would only be a nice bonus.

If Google prevents webmasters from linking their related sites then they have waaaayyy too much power. If you want to interlink your sites then do it, and if google penalize you for that then Google is fu**ed up...

I dont' see how Google would want to penalize interlinked sites though, much safer for Google to just ignore the links

europeforvisitors




msg:729141
 5:50 pm on Aug 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

I dont' see how Google would want to penalize interlinked sites though, much safer for Google to just ignore the links

Interlinking of sites is probably just one of many factors that go into determining a site's "spam score." A good rule of thumb might be, "Does the interlinking pass the 'smell test'? Would it raise eyebrows in a manual review?"

Johan007




msg:729142
 9:41 am on Aug 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'd be very careful about interlinking sites on your own network.

Rubbish! All the big sites do it. Google, M$, Yahoo and any group with shares or ownership in more than one company. As long as the contents is not duplicate spam of cause like one site for "Web design in London" and another for "Web Design in Manchester" etc.. etc...

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