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Scraper Site Clearout Collateral Damage?
Ian Cunningham




msg:707472
 10:18 am on Jul 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

It seems like google has purged many scraper sites from the google serps, as per this thread:

[webmasterworld.com...]

I'm sure many people, including myself are very, very pleased about this as it stops scumbag sites from stealing our content.

However, it also appears that some non-scraper sites have been included in this purge (including my own). My site has been active for 5 years and is based on unique content.

Has anyone else been effected by this, and does google intend to refine the algorithm to stop valid, unique content sites from falling victim?

 

andrea99




msg:707712
 10:27 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

...learn more about google before stating that they are corrupt...

Using a script to do the work, kind of makes it hard to bribe.


No, no I'm not saying that anyone at Google is being bribed though I suppose that's also possible.

I'm saying that the entire automated script is fundamentally corrupt in ways that make Google more of a paid directory than a search engine.

chelseaareback




msg:707713
 10:31 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm saying that the entire automated script is fundamentally corrupt in ways that make Google more of a paid directory than a search engine.

but what is wrong with that.

why is it corrupt

it is their engine after all

andrea99




msg:707714
 10:40 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>but what is wrong with that.
If you think you are using a search engine you're being duped.

>>>why is it corrupt
This dupes the public. I was less inclined to see it as corruption when I was there.

>>>it is their engine after all
Yes it is.

WebFusion




msg:707715
 11:00 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

The drama level exhibited here is laughable.

You are attributing an emotional response to something that is essentially a machine. If your toaster burns your toast, to you call it corrupt, and tell the world that it "betrayed" you.

Show me 10 webmasters who think their site is the "authority" in any sector, and you'll quickly find 10 more that disagree.

In the grand scheme of things, google VERY rarely manually drops sites, and the "good" sites that do get dropped are normally due to either a

a: Better qualified site out ranking them *gasp*

or

b: A glitch in google's AUTOMATED ranking system(s)

Essentially what you're saying is that if google's AUTOMATED system drops your site for any reason, it MUST be corruption at work.

....BUT....let's play devils advocate and say you're right. The bid, bad, evil googleplex is out to get YOU with their corrupt and evil AUTOMATED ranking system.

If so, I assume you have then BANNED all Googlebots from crawling your site, correct? Surely you have the courage of your convictions and don't ever want to reappear in google's index and receive free traffic from such a corrupt source, right?

While you're at it, you should probably ban Yahoo's crawler too, as they used to use google's AUTOMATED results, so must by extension be corrupt themselves as much spam as THEY let in, they surely can't be "good").

...and don't forget MSN, as we all know microsoft is as evil as they come, right?

andrea99




msg:707716
 11:18 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebFusion your goal seems more to be laughter and ridicule than understanding. I'm accustomed to being disliked for my views and envied on other levels so your abuse does not really faze me.

I don't deny being motivated by emotion, I am angry. Automated systems are designed by people who can indeed engineer betrayal, corruption and other human flaws into their bots.

I don't contend that these were engineered specifically to betray me, the betrayal was simply a function of the automated action. I'm not angry with the bots but their creators whom I have targeted for a cool and methodical revenge, a revenge that will be measured in dollars. Many dollars.

It is tortured logic such as yours WebFusion that helps motivate my revenge, I thank you for that.

matt621




msg:707717
 11:34 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

We are dead in the water. Not only did they remove the scraper sites, but they also removed real sites that link to us as well. We had about 4 pages of sites linking to us, about half scrapers sites. But the rest are legitimate sites that linked to us of their own accord. In fact, we don't even link back to some of them.

This has killed our business. And I do mean killed. We are still no.1 on MSN and Yahoo, but we are now on page 6 of google. Our sales have plummetted so badly, that i wonder why the lights are still on.

A note about the "evil" of scraper sites. The sites that are on the scrapers sites got to the top of the real SERPs based on legitimate links and content. Then along come the scrappers, they give everyone a boost .... until google kills the scraper sites. But now we are dead. So I don't understand why killing the scraper sites killed us? We should have gone back to where we were before the scaper sites started linking to us.

What google SHOULD be doing is REMOVING those people using adsense program on their scrapers sites. But interestingly they do not.

Bottom line: Google has put us out of business yet again.

<snip> if anyone wants to verify what I've said.

Does anyone have an email address that google really answers? The main thing I'd like to talk to them about is that they removed the links to us from legitimate sites.

[edited by: lawman at 12:26 am (utc) on Sep. 1, 2005]
[edit reason] No URL Drops Per TOS #13 [/edit]

lawman




msg:707718
 12:31 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Let's all try not to get personal - you know, disagree without being disagreeable and all that.

Seo1




msg:707719
 2:18 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

For Matt

We had about 4 pages of sites linking to us, about half scrapers sites.

This is pretty much answered by Googles years old webmaster guidelines.

Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web, as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links.

From your post Matt it seems you knew full well what this sites were up to and allowed them to link to you.

So of course when Google dumped the site those links went with them.

You also made a statement about returning to where you were with links before the scraper sites....you should have just staid where you were as I doubt now you would have the problems you are now.

For Andrea

While your corruption theory is plausible the only flaw with it is that you assume only one person works on the algorithim. Google is filled with 100s of engineers who work on the algorthimn therefore each of those people (Who most are millionaires no doubt) would want to toss away the great environment they work in for substantially less money on a bribe than they make in a year.....Uh huh

One last thing,,, your infatuation of striking at Googles pockets and exacting revenge will undoubtly stymie any atempts you try in the future... bad karma and evilness beget bad karma and evilness in return.

Google owes you nothing and to think otherwise is foolish..

Andrea would you let strangers into your home and allow them to do whatever they feel?

I can answer for you .......NO!

So why then do you think Google would allow you or anyone else to do the same?

linkjack




msg:707720
 2:36 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

hi, i'm wondering if i could contribute to the forum and be allowed to promote my domain like europeforvisitors does? anyone?

sunflower12




msg:707721
 3:03 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

"For Matt
We had about 4 pages of sites linking to us, about half scrapers sites.

This is pretty much answered by Googles years old webmaster guidelines.

Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web, as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links.

From your post Matt it seems you knew full well what this sites were up to and allowed them to link to you.

So of course when Google dumped the site those links went with them.

You also made a statement about returning to where you were with links before the scraper sites....you should have just staid where you were as I doubt now you would have the problems you are now."

Hi Seo1,
I thought you were not penalized by google for scraper sites that link to you. I have many scraper sites that link to me and I never linked back to them. Whenever I found an E-mail address I would write to them and request that they remove my link. In most cases they never did. I would receive e-mails every day from scraper sites that would tell me that they linked to my site and would ask me to link back. I always wrote them back and demanded that they remove my link. Most times they did not. I hated that they linked to me and often wondered if I was penalized by google for it, but I thought google only penalized you if you linked to those sites?

europeforvisitors




msg:707722
 3:09 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

linkjack:

Wrong forum. Try:

[webmasterworld.com...]

Unless, of course, you're trying to change the subject. :-)

Seo1




msg:707723
 3:13 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

For texasville

I also have from one webpage earned $1100.00 this month with the use of only viral marketing to drive traffic to the page. The income is made from a lead generating campaign and adsense ads running along side. <<<<

Pardon me seo1 but isn't this an example of how you are making money with google?

Google Adsense accounts for 50 to 55% and my point was that I earned this money without getting any traffic from Google or any other search engine...

I think what many miss is that running a website is the same as running any real world business. Most real world businesses advertise in the yellow pages local newspapers, magazines.. direct mail, etc..

This is being the case where did anyone come up with the notion that google was going to build businesses for others?

If anyone can show me where Google states that they will build your business for you please let me know.

Last I recalled it the company is Google Search Engine... not Google Business Builder.

It makes me laugh at times and other times insane. that people actually will sit and place the blame for thier business failure on Google....

that staement is so absurd it should never be uttered in the presence of other business people....LOL

However it is also a sign of the lack of responsibility most humans can accept...easier to blame a script... than their own lack of business knowledge and accumen.

live by the sword...die by the sword

or for the google infatuated

live by google...die by google...

Caveat Emporer

andrea99




msg:707724
 3:16 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

For Seo1:

...the only flaw with it is that you assume only one person works on the algorithim.

I never made that assumption.

In fact your answers to me are so unconnected to what I actually said that I'm at a loss as to how to answer you except to say that you should reread my posts with greater comprehension this time.

[edited by: andrea99 at 3:18 am (utc) on Sep. 1, 2005]

Seo1




msg:707725
 3:17 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

actually linkjack I think europeforvisitors is very brilliant for choosing a member name that also promotes his business, and another shining example of how one builds a business without relying on Google..

live by Google ...die by Google

I think this should be my new signature......

linkjack




msg:707726
 3:53 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Seo1

I think his strategy is indeed brilliant. But as he said this is probably the wrong forum for the subject!

Developing a brandname on forums using the nickname same as domain name is indeed very effective. The mind boils with ideas!

texasville




msg:707727
 4:17 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

seo1...besides writing in a tone that is so comdescending that I find it offensive, you are primarily riding google's back for YOUR income. This is why you defend it so vigorously, even to the point of insulting others.

andrea99




msg:707728
 4:19 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Developing a brandname on forums using the nickname same as domain name is indeed very effective. The mind boils with ideas!
This is a good idea only if it is incidental to your participation on the forum. If the nature of your business/site is such that developing a small but well connected clientele/visitorship will work well this is a good use of the brand name.

But most forums are too small for you to devote a lot of time there purely for the brand recognition. If this is why you visit the forum all it will get you is spam recognition...

How many forums can you visit regularly and contribute to thoughtfully? You need a business with small numbers of high paying clients for this strategy to be effective.

reseller




msg:707729
 6:02 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Talking about "Collateral Damage" ;-)

Have any of you checked your site ranking through out the DCs recently?

Wish to hear some feedback from sites in various sectors.

Thanks.

Seo1




msg:707730
 9:49 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

For Texasville

I don't wish to burst your bubble but the small amount of Adsense revenue I earn each month is just that. It probably represents about 5% to 10% of my monthly income.

It should also be said that it has taken me 4+ years to be an overnight success. I worked 16 to 20 hours per day, 6 to 7 days per week,,at one point I had a box of pasta, some gravy, and a slab of chicken to feed my family of five.

I have lost a server in the middle of my growth which lost 100s of client results pages, I also took a risk and rebranded my business after almost three years in.

I have had my DSL cut off because I couldn't afford the payment.

But none of the above is or was anyones fault but my own!
Your lot in like is that what you make it.

Since that time I have been fortunate I stopped worrying about things and let the money find me.

As for backing Google or living off the income I generate for them, I make more off of bonuses paid by one of my real estate clients for each close he makes.

In addition I am one of Googles harshest critics. Anyone who has followed my posts and articles I have written, could tell you that.

If I sound condescending I do not mean too, but to sit and whine that a free service is out to get websites is insane, plain and simple.

Also in those four years I have spoken with over 500 webmasters from around the world, and of that amount perhaps 20% knew what profits and profit margins are, they knew the cost to accquire one new customer, and most importantly they understood that in order to build a profitable business they needed to generate revenue from as many sources as possible.

For the vast majority however it seems they decided that they could throw up a website and become instant millionaires in spite of their lack of business sense.

As we all can clearly see, this is the track most have taken and in doing so used a narrow minded approach to generate sales and clients through one resource, Google.com.

That is their the second mistake they made, the first being they thought they could be a success without the requisiter knowledge or tools needed to help ensure future success.

Another issue is that amount of time spent in forums crying that Google is out to get someone...most of those people could write and article or ten and distribute them to free articles sites to be picked up by others who are interested in the topic as well as the backlinks when someone posts the article on their site, thereby driving targeted traffic to the authors' website.

And finally my posting of the line

Live by Google, Die by Google.....doesnt sound like a vote of support to me.....

Now I just need to hope Google doesn't decide to dispatch a team of reprogrammers to my house in order to brainwash me....or better yet perhaps they'll ban my not very well ranked website ...

sunflower12




msg:707731
 3:20 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Seo1,
Did you see my previous question directed at you? Thanks

texasville




msg:707732
 3:23 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

seo1-harshest critic of google? I haven't seen that. All I see of you is writing simple articles about how to be number one in google. Have I missed something?

Lorel




msg:707733
 3:31 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)



Many complaints in here can be resolved if the webmasters concerned took a long, hard look at their own sites. ;)

right on! Some of the sites in this thread have validtion erros in the multiple hundreds and other serious technical problems that are the more likely culprit.

I manage over 30 websites and NONE of them have dropped in rank over the last few years. Why? Because I keep all the pages validated and design sites with no technical blockers thwarting the search engines.

All this complaing about Google being the bad buy reminds me of what I'm seeing with the looters hit by Hurricane Katrina--they claim their looting is everone's fault but their own. When the real reason they are in dire straits is because THEY WEREN'T PREPARED when they had plenty of warning that this disaster would occur someday.

Validate! Validate!
And remove technology blockers detering search engines.

netmeg




msg:707734
 3:56 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google owes everyone fairness. If your site is the authority on a subject matter, then it should be #1. Obviously this is difficult for them to achieve, but in a perfect world that would be what authority sites "deserve".

Fair? Who decides what's fair? I say my site is the overwhelming authority on splunge, and you say YOUR site is the overwhelming authority on splunge and seventeen other people think THEIR sites are the overwhelming authority on splunge and there's only ten results by default in Google, so who wins? It's a crap shoot, no matter - possibly NONE of them is the real authority.

EVERYONE thinks they deserve to be on the first page for all their chosen keywords and there's no entity on the planet that could arbitrate that situation to even a majority of satisfaction.

It never ceases to amaze me that people who otherwise seem to have plenty of enterprise and common sense would allow their livelihoods to depend so heavily on a system (namely, Google's) over which they really don't have the slightest authority or control. What would you do if the hurricane had taken out Google's main HQ and most of its servers?

Webdetective




msg:707735
 4:11 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Validate!

Adding these to each page?

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

I agree about Google. Yahoo and MSN can bring in lots of customers and business too.

europeforvisitors




msg:707736
 4:26 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Fair? Who decides what's fair?

Google does. It's their search engine.

andrea99




msg:707737
 4:44 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Fair? Who decides what's fair?

Google does. It's their search engine.

No, actually the searching public decides. If and when the public's opinion becomes that Google is unfair, Google will change or die (I use the term 'die' loosely, 2nd place would be a kind of death).

There is great inertia and forgiveness in public opinion, but it is the final arbiter of these things. The public's opinion is guided by opinion leaders in the search community and the wider media.

Strong early support by the Slashdot crowd and similar communities gave Google its start. If a rival to Google were to emerge I would expect to see it there first. But it could emerge elsewhere...

g1smd




msg:707738
 4:47 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> HTML 4.0

No.

4.01

lawman




msg:707739
 4:52 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Apparently all the helpful info has already been posted. Thread locked.

This 268 message thread spans 9 pages: < < 268 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9]
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