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Scraper Site Clearout Collateral Damage?
Ian Cunningham




msg:707472
 10:18 am on Jul 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

It seems like google has purged many scraper sites from the google serps, as per this thread:

[webmasterworld.com...]

I'm sure many people, including myself are very, very pleased about this as it stops scumbag sites from stealing our content.

However, it also appears that some non-scraper sites have been included in this purge (including my own). My site has been active for 5 years and is based on unique content.

Has anyone else been effected by this, and does google intend to refine the algorithm to stop valid, unique content sites from falling victim?

 

andrea99




msg:707682
 11:05 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

It isn't Google's fault if businesses spend milions of dollars to influence Google's search results...
It is not Google's fault, it is Google's intention. Google: "And if your millions don't work there try AdWords."

I don't fault Google for this, but do I think this is a good place to make such an observation.

WebFusion




msg:707683
 11:23 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

No. For four years I developed (edited) content which was then indexed by Google and accessed by thousands of people. All of a sudden it is not. I will be doing other things with my time in the future, Google's decision to ban my site without warning was a betrayal that I won't soon forget or forgive.

Keeping in mind google is (for the most part) a completely automated, algo-driven system. making a statement like that is like saying "The car that get's me to work everyday broke down - I'll never forget that betrayal" A glitch is not a betrayal, nor is the fact that quite a few perfectly decent websites are getting caught in the net meant for spammers. With billions of websites in existence, expecting a perfect system is simply not realistic. IF your site is as high-quality as you say, then it will invariably be back. I've had 5+ year old, 100% original content sites go MIA in google for months at a time, yet they always returned.

I feel the derision pointed towards individuals because of their frustration with google due to their feeling of unfair treatment does not really have a place here.

Look...I'm NOT a google fan. I think Google's search has been "broken" for a long time. Having said that, the complaints that elude to "unfair treatment" simply illustrate a weakness in that person;s overal marketing plan. A site I own that lost 90% of google traffic on July 16th (due to a huge drop in serps) STILL receives thousands of visitors per day. Why? Because I realized early on that to weather the organic traffic "storm", the traffic sources themselves need to be diversified AWAY from the engines. Make a sticky site, and the free traffic is just icing on the cake. Make a one trick, have-to-have-google-traffic-to-survive type of site, and you've built a site on quicksand.

Google should be aware of peoples feelings and complaints and the forums provide a healthy place to release that pressure.

As a business owner, my only concern is the experience of my end users. While I agree Google needs webmaster's content to survive, their business was built on the searcher's experience. The day they start to cater to webmasters is the day they lose their stranglehold on search.

andrea99




msg:707684
 11:49 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

google is (for the most part) a completely automated, algo-driven system.
Yes, I consider the decision to treat four years of my life's work so cavalierly a personal betrayal if not outright evil and for the forseeable future I will dedicate my time to probing and exposing Google's weaknesses.

They will survive my fury but it is my intention to make them say "ouch!" I am simply warming up here on the SEO forums. When I have my arguments properly honed I will use them to assault their upcoming stock offering in the appropriate arena. I don't care that it may be pointed out that this is simply a personal vendetta. My arguments stand on their own.

europeforvisitors




msg:707685
 12:21 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I guess he meant by "Google friendly" is to observe Google´s own webmasters guidelines

Google's guidelines boil down to "design sites for users, not search engines." So the cost of making sites "google friendly" is nil, if "google friendly" simply means complying with Google's Webmaster guidelins.

texasville




msg:707686
 5:49 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

a snippet from an email I recently received from google help. These are their words...not mine. I was only quoting. So...it IS their mind set.

>>>The best way to improve your
site's visibility in our search results is to maintain a "Google-friendly" site.<<<

steveb




msg:707687
 6:40 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Google's decision to ban my site without warning was a betrayal that I won't soon forget or forgive."

They betrayed you how? This makes no sense.

And most sites banned only have themselves to blame.

reseller




msg:707688
 6:56 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

steveb

>>And most sites banned only have themselves to blame. <<

However, I still see on top of the serps for my testing keyphrases, sites that are either empty of real content, nothing but banners and buttons, or even empty pages with a search box that return server error for any query entered.

How do you explain that, steveb?

MarkHutch




msg:707689
 7:31 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

There was a post in this forum a few years ago that, I believe was started by Brett that talked about all the webmasters back then that thought Google owed them something. The main thinking at that time was that Google offers FREE links to webmasters pages and really they don't owe anyone, anything.

At that time I had just lost results on several domains and I was mad, too. However, with time I realized that I had no real reason to be mad because Google had promoted those sites for years at no cost to me. In that time frame I made thousands of dollars at no cost to me. What made me upset was the fact that the free lunch ended and I had to think of something else.

It's not easy to accept that Google doesn't owe you something, but they don't. If you've been successful, just be thankful for that success while it lasted and move on.

Right now, I know you don't want to hear that, but at least give it some thought. If you made money via Google results before, you are pretty smart at SEO. Take that intelligence & energy and put it into rebuilding your Internet business.

Being angry at Google will only delay your future success.

reseller




msg:707690
 7:55 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

MarkHutch

>>There was a post in this forum a few years ago that, I believe was started by Brett that talked about all the webmasters back then that thought Google owed them something. The main thinking at that time was that Google offers FREE links to webmasters pages and really they don't owe anyone, anything.<<

I guess things changed since ;-)

I can´t talk in general terms, of course.

However, since the emerge of AdSense, a mutual beneficial partnership has started among Google and publishers (webmasters). The two partners owe each other much for their own success in generating revenues.

So one can say at least, Google owe something to AdSense publishers.

steveb




msg:707691
 7:59 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

"How do you explain that, steveb?"

You need glasses? Your test phrase is "server error"?

What does your comment have to do with what I wrote?

reseller




msg:707692
 8:12 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

steveb

>>You need glasses?<<

I use two of the kind. The first when reading/writing. The second I use when driving and watching TV (when time allow). But of course a third pair wouldn´t do any harm ;-)

>>Your test phrase is "server error"?

No. My test phrases are related to advertising and marketing.

ncwonline




msg:707693
 8:18 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

When are you all going to catch on to what is really going on here?

Google is a big time corp like Microsoft now. They will do what ever has to be done to build income. Including the evil of banishing lots of you until you realize how the new google world operates.

2+2 still equals what?

The bottom line that is what. This all is just designed to drive thousands (millions) of you who once got free traffic to the adwords program so you now have to pay for what was once free.

Everyone take a deep breath and click on the magic link (or copy and paste if needed) and all your troubles will soooon be over....

https://adwords.google.com

Come on in the waters fine. It works and once you get used to it you will like it here in adwords land. Things work a little different but you can really do some cool things. Once you get the hang of it the dollars they do flow like wine.

###

europeforvisitors




msg:707694
 2:20 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

The bottom line that is what. This all is just designed to drive thousands (millions) of you who once got free traffic to the adwords program so you now have to pay for what was once free.

OK, what about the people who move up in the rankings when your site goes down? Aren't they less likely to buy AdWords?

If the first page of every SERP were dominated by noncommercial sites, the conspiracy theorists might logic on their side, but that isn't the case.

Fact is, there are winners and losers every time the search results change. My own site lost 75-90% of its Google referrals for two months, but I didn't blame it on an attempt by Google to sell me AdWords. And when the traffic came back, it probably wasn't because Google had decided I was too cheap, too poor, or too ornery to buy AdWords. :-)

reseller




msg:707695
 2:28 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

europeforvisitors

>>....And when the traffic came back, it probably wasn't because Google had decided I was too cheap, too poor, or too ornery to buy AdWords. :-) <<

Any qualified guess why/how your traffic came back ;-)

europeforvisitors




msg:707696
 2:47 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Any qualified guess why/how your traffic came back ;-)

Something that was broken got fixed. :-)

For what it's worth, my site's rankings had been almost rock-solid in Google for at least two years--through Florida and other updates that had a lot of people gnashing their teeth. Then came a 30% jump in Google referrals with Allegra (in February), followed by a huge crash during the little-heralded and unnamed update of late March (when a number of travel information sites that I'm familiar with got hit). Recovery occurred in late May, and I'm currently at my post-Allegra levels.

Bottom line: I have no idea why the site slipped or why it came back, but I do know that it wasn't the only information site in its sector to get whacked and resurrected.

andrea99




msg:707697
 4:19 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Being angry at Google and spending hours pursuing the premise that they are undeserving of their dominant position is a valuable use of my time and motivation...

Provided I do not structure my arguments to fit a preconceived conclusion I will emerge with valuable data.

I suspect I will not be recommending shorting Google. But there is a good chance I will affect the value of their next offering and plant seeds in the minds of their competition. That will be a satisfying revenge and will prepare me for the next phase of web, whatever that may be.

I'll be working on my site too. :)

Seo1




msg:707698
 5:07 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi

I had shut up to watch the fall out on this post.

For those of you who Google has dumped, dropped, bumped or whatever malady they have caused you I have two questions.

1. How much did you pay Google to list your site in "their" free results listings?

Exactly you paid nothing ergo you deserve nothing.

2. Who told you Google would build your business to success?

I know it wasn't Google.

For all of you crying & feeling sorry for yourselves thinking somehow Google has destroyed your little website, and your business, I think maybe you should look in a newspaper, watch some television, or listen to the radio, and look at the city of New Orleans, where mother nature has decimated billions of dollars in business!

Do you see those people laying down and crying booo hooo mother nature doesn't like my business?

NO! They get the hell up, dig out, bail out whatever it is they need to do and rebuild their business and lives.

Get over your self, stop looking for pity, and bashing a 3rd party company that does not owe you anything!

For those of you who complain that what Google does is driven by a need to grow revenue......why do you have a website? To grow revenue?

So why is it okay for you to grow revenue? but not Google or any other search engine for that matter?

Amazing is all I can say!

jchance




msg:707699
 5:42 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. How much did you pay Google to list your site in "their" free results listings?
Exactly you paid nothing ergo you deserve nothing.

Wow, so angry.

I disagree with this. Google owes everyone fairness. If your site is the authority on a subject matter, then it should be #1. Obviously this is difficult for them to achieve, but in a perfect world that would be what authority sites "deserve".

The reason Google owes people that is because SE are a unique beast in that their "free listings" are how most people find stuff on the internet. Thus, they are in a unique position where they need to be fair.

Overall, I think Google does a pretty good job of being fair, and while I agree with you that complaints in this forum don't accomplish much, I certainly understand people's frustrations.

ncwonline




msg:707700
 6:56 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Seo1

The big difference here is people are not sure what the heck happened with google and how exactly to go about fixing it.

A lot of people are confused by it all so they complain. I myself used to have a lot of G traffic and 90% of it went away. I have done a lot of digging and I think I have figured out what happened. I finally got busted for doing lots of spammy things that at the time I just thought where smart because it helped my other sites. Now I am cleaning up my main site and I will see if it all helps. But I am still confused because no one is there to tell me exactly what I did both on-site and 0ff-site that has offended the big G.

Google and the other engines don't like black hat stuff but what should we call what they do to us? I know lots of site rankings where lowered for no apparent reason.

I have a feeling it may have to do with algo changes because of adsense scraper sites etc but I also suspect G is going to be rolling things around on a more regular basis in order to drive people to use adwords.

I know I am certainly going to look into it as it seams just as easy to play that game as to pay an SEO outfit big bucks to get back in the listings. I just don't have the bucks to play the paid SEO thing. Nothing against you SEO guys but lots of us small fish are in that boat.

At least with a hurricane if the thing blows away your house or business you know exactly what needs to be done to fix things. Sure it is not easy but it is right there in front of you and you know or can figure out what has to be done. With G people are many times just at a loss as to what the heck happened.

I really wish G would be more up front about that kind of thing. I mean if they had some kind of service that could rank your site for say 1 to 10 for a bunch of things but still not guarantee any SE ranking placement I would gladly pay to have them tell me exactly what was good or bad about my site from the google point of view.

They could have some kind of site evaluation spider system. You could sign up, pay your money and they would turn the thing loose on your site. A short time later depending on site size etc you could log in and read what the big G thought about all relevant points for your site design including such things as duplicate content penalties etc. You could then work on any offending sections make changes etc and have the site re-spidered to check it. In the end you could have a clean G bill of health so you would at least know where you stood and could be sure you where not being penalized for things you where doing both on-site and off-site that you just did not realize was bad for your site.

All this would have nothing to do with key words or ranking for certain terms etc just site design and how it looked to google. This way if you where going to be hit for something you would know and you could set about fixing the known problem not floundering about in the dark wondering where the light switch was.

I am not some evil scraper site builder but I do have about 10 sites that I have adsense on. I also have about 100 or so domains and 1 huge site 16 k pages that if I link my other sites from it they get spidered right then and found in the SE's in a few weeks (except google). If doing this kind of stuff has google seeing me as some kind of evil webmaster I would certainly like to know that. I am just trying to do what I can to get by but it would be nice not to be doing stuff that in some unwritten rule book somewhere in the googleplex was considered bad.

You guys think what you will about this. I know a lot of you are way passed the point of knowing what is what for site design etc for google and the other engines but lots of us have been skating along getting by just fine with our half way decent sites and BAM we are toast in the search results where we used to be doing fine.

Thing thing is we just don't know for sure if it was something we had control over and could/should fix or not.

###

andrea99




msg:707701
 6:58 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Get over your self, stop looking for pity, and bashing a 3rd party company that does not owe you anything!

Sometimes I'm very glad this is a "virtual" space. While I tend to agree with what you say, I don't think I want to have anything to do with you in any capacity. You have such a pathological bitterness and self-righteous indignation in your tone that I must wonder about their roots.

dataguy




msg:707702
 7:19 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

You know, I hardly ever agree with SEO1. In fact, I usually think he is 180 degrees off target. This time I agree with him. I don't think it's anger or bitterness, I think he's pretty much sticking to fact here.

How does it improve your web business to sit around and complain about the unfairness of it all? It may help you feel better about your situation, but there are more productive things to be done.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the discussion and I read every post about this issue that I can, but it's all in the interest of moving forward.

michalm




msg:707703
 7:25 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

The topic here is about scraper sites. From what I have seen it is not necessarily scraper sites that got dropped.

One of y sites that had a dmoz clone in it was dropped on July 28th. I have quickly removed the clone and submitted a reinclusion request. After a few days I received a "forwarded to engineers" email. Nothing happened, site was still out.

After about 2 more weeks I decided to drop my resources pages, on which I had a line saying: "If you want to exchange links email me".
I sent a reply to the reinclusion request reply explaining that I removed the resources pages and did wrong by encouraging others to exchange links with me.
The same day, I received another "forwarded to engineers" reply and after 3 days the site was back with its pagerank and all previous number one serps.

Guess we have to think about removing other potential breaches in guidelines and not focus so much on the scraper content.

andrea99




msg:707704
 7:48 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

How does it improve your web business to sit around and complain about the unfairness of it all?
The point may or may not be to improve web business.

But when a big player like Google acts unfairly it is reasonable to compare notes with others to gauge how widespread the problem is and just how unfair Google's actions are.

I think it is instructive to find out how many feel they've been treated unfairly and to what extent.

I am very angry with Google but I'm finished ranting and am methodically charting a course of action to get even. I expect to learn much about Google and its business while doing this and I expect to use this to my advantage in the future.

I am too proud and yes, too angry to try to dance to Google's tune and beg them to let my web site back into their corrupt index. I just plan to get even my own way which will take a bit longer but will, I think, be more satisfying.

oddsod




msg:707705
 8:02 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just plan to get even my own way which will take a bit longer but will, I think, be more satisfying.

Now if only you'd expand on that. I'd certain be interested in er, getting some satisfaction :)

dataguy




msg:707706
 8:12 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just plan to get even my own way which will take a bit longer but will, I think, be more satisfying.

Now you're talking! I decided a long time ago that I could not let my web business be beholden to Google. Google sends me a lot of traffic, and a lot of money month after month, but I could survive without it. Not because I have money stashed away (I don't) but because I have several business models at work, and together they make a much more stable business.

I would like to see a thread started on "Building an Internet Business Without Big-G". Now THAT would be interesting...

texasville




msg:707707
 9:06 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've already submitted a thread, 26 steps to a successful site without google in 12 months...it's waiting approval by the mods.

texasville




msg:707708
 9:30 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've got to say this-I was just doing some comparison searches and saw something I have never seen before on google. a yahoo local result 3 down from the top. And a yahoo.com ad for yahoo shopping among the ads to the right.?... have I just missed something? Has this been going on for a while and I just never noticed?

Seo1




msg:707709
 10:02 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Dataguy

Most people don't agree with me. Of course most people don't have sites ranked in Googles front page for keywords with 60,000,000 million competing pages, as I do...so whether others agree with me has never been much a concern.

As was said " you can lead a mule to water, but you cannot force it to drink"

I am never angry or bitter why should I be?

All my clients are and have always done well.

As for threads on building web business without Search Engines, I've done several as well as an article or two. If you want the urls let me know.

I also have from one webpage earned $1100.00 this month with the use of only viral marketing to drive traffic to the page. The income is made from a lead generating campaign and adsense ads running along side.

This is only one revenue stream that I have. I do think it illustrated the point to not place all your eggs in one Google basket of search results.

Andrea I really think you need to read and learn more about google before stating that they are corrupt, the whole thing is an automated script so there is very little human intervention.

Using a script to do the work, kind of makes it hard to bribe.

In closing I have a phrase I use often

There are only 10 free listings on Googles front pages for any keyword term. This does not mean that companies not found on Googles front pages are failure and nothing guaranteed front page listings will make a business successful.

More often than not....front page results are just a pretty little stat which does not accurately reflect a businesses health.

There is also the matter of conversion. Front page results mean only that people may visit your website, however this does not equate to guaranteed sales or leads.

Again Google owes nobody nothing. they didnt force you to include your website in "THEIR" free results listings

For those who are really mad at Google or do not wish to rely on them for help you can always build a robots.txt file as so:

# All robots will spider the domain
User-agent: *
Disallow:

# Disallow Googlebot/2.0 beta (googlebot(at)googlebot.com)
User-agent: Googlebot/2.0 beta (googlebot(at)googlebot.com)
Disallow: /

Taking this action will allow you to sleep better at night knowing that Google is not in a conspiracy against your website.

Peace

andrea99




msg:707710
 10:18 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Now if only you'd expand on that.

Now you're talking!

The start of my plan is a methodical and exhaustive listing of all of Google's public image weaknesses and vulnerabilities, especially those in my own field where I do see a break.

This could develop into someone's business plan but my goal is narrower than that, at least for now.

texasville




msg:707711
 10:18 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>I also have from one webpage earned $1100.00 this month with the use of only viral marketing to drive traffic to the page. The income is made from a lead generating campaign and adsense ads running along side. <<<<

Pardon me seo1 but isn't this an example of how you are making money with google?

andrea99




msg:707712
 10:27 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

...learn more about google before stating that they are corrupt...

Using a script to do the work, kind of makes it hard to bribe.


No, no I'm not saying that anyone at Google is being bribed though I suppose that's also possible.

I'm saying that the entire automated script is fundamentally corrupt in ways that make Google more of a paid directory than a search engine.

This 268 message thread spans 9 pages: < < 268 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 > >
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