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This 493 message thread spans 17 pages: < < 493 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ... 17 > >     
Google PR Update
Coop99




msg:713226
 12:06 am on Jul 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

Noticed changes in PR for sites of mine right now! Finally!

 

Kirby




msg:713436
 3:04 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Is pagerank to do with website age? I thought it was to do with a site's popularity, number of links pointing to it and content. But I'm not sure.

event_king, your question explains alot about your earlier posts. Page rank has nothing to do with web site quality, and outside of other webmasters, the searching public doesnt know about PR and doesnt take it into account when determining if your site is any good.

If you build a site with relevant quality content, people will link to it. I discovered an .edu link from an Ivy League university to one of my sites that I never would have even thought to ask for, but someone there thought the site a good resource (smart people at that school). You can also buy advertising on relevant sites that will send you traffic and, in some cases, the link will even pass PR. Nothing wrong with that in Google's eyes.

Google "page rank explained" and you will get some good resources on the subject.

Clint




msg:713437
 3:09 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yep, it's definitely screwed up again. I need to add to what I said in msg 209....what I said about seeing the same thing now I mentioned in msg 46, that brand new website that's only been up a few days, is also back to having a HIGHER PR than my friggin' NINE YEAR OLD site with the ~thousand incoming links! Impossible. And it should go without saying that not a sole links to it since it's only a few days old and no knows it even exists!

I think it's safe to say that it is definitely broken and if G, IF IF IF they get it fixed, those of you that also have new sites with high PR's, we will see them drop back to 0.

Kirby




msg:713438
 3:11 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint, whoever said that the foolbar PR was accurate?

Clint




msg:713439
 3:15 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

event_king, your question explains alot about your earlier posts. Page rank has nothing to do with web site quality, and outside of other webmasters, the searching public doesn't know about PR and doesn't take it into account when determining if your site is any good.

Kirby, I agree that it has nothing to do with quality, that's known. But unfortunately, the fact that the "general public doesn't know about PR" is exactly what makes it IMPORTANT to them when they see that "PR x" in their toolbars! They think it DOES have a bearing on the quality of a site!

"Oooooo, ahhhhh, look at that...PR of 8, wow, they're awesome". Then: "Hey, this site sucks....it only has a PR of 2! Let's go somewhere else".

WE know better, but THEY DON'T! G is undermining the success of low PR websites.

Clint




msg:713440
 3:18 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>Clint, whoever said that the foolbar PR was accurate?<<<

Hee hee, I like that, "foolbar". Now if the general public only realized that.....

the13thmajestic




msg:713441
 3:21 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wow this is a fast moving thread...

This is really discouraging. I have sweated, slaved and sacrificed for so long just to see my pagerank slip while all the while doing nothing more but adding more relevant content and recip links.

I feel like giving up.

Kirby




msg:713442
 3:25 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

"general public doesn't know about PR" is exactly what makes it IMPORTANT

You misunderstood. I did not say that they simple dont understand page rank. I am saying that the majority of searchers are not even aware of the existence of page rank, therefore the page rank displayed on a toolbar that most searchers do not have downloaded does not influence their opinion of quality.

If they find what they are looking for, even if its an auto-generated aff site with 7 hypens in the url, then they are most likely happy.

the13thmajestic




msg:713443
 3:35 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am saying that the majority of searchers are not even aware of the existence of page rank, therefore the page rank displayed on a toolbar that most searchers do not have downloaded does not influence their opinion of quality.

I've never seen the PR indicator as anything other than a tool for developers/webmasters.

As a surfer or searcher, it has never occured to me to check pagerank as a measure of a page's relevance.

I have always, however, used PR as an indication of how well I was doing as a webmaster and when my PR slips, it hits me right in the guts.

Dayo_UK




msg:713444
 3:38 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've never seen the PR indicator as anything other than a tool for developers/webmasters.

As a surfer or searcher, it has never occured to me to check pagerank as a measure of a page's relevance.

When I first started using the internet before I was a webmaster and knew what Page Rank was I did think it was a measure of a pages relevance in the term you are talking about (In fact I though that Google hand reviewed every site and gave them a score)

Obviously I know better now.

Clint




msg:713445
 3:41 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's time someone put Google out of the game once and for all. Pagerank seriously messes with people's websites, successes and lives - it isn't right.

DEFINITELY true words Event_king.

the13thmajestic




msg:713446
 3:46 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Qouting my own remarks because I feel the need to expound upon them:

I have always, however, used PR as an indication of how well I was doing as a webmaster and when my PR slips, it hits me right in the guts.

Especially when I've done nothing more than add more relevant content and reciprocal links!

I thought that beared (sic) repeating.

Someone please tell me: How the h*** can I justify the effort and time if all it's going to get me is a swift kick in the a**?

Clint




msg:713447
 3:49 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google has been controlling people's websites since day 1, and it's all about money for them.

No, it's about delivering quality search results, which is how Google attracts the "eyeballs" that generate revenue for Google and its advertisers. Also, PR is just one of many factors that go into search rankings. (And if you examine Google's search results closely, you'll often find lower-PR pages ranking higher than higher-PR pages.)

Awww, C'mon! It most certainly IS about money! That's why they do what they do! Plus it's NOT about "delivering quality search results", they've PROVEN that! Have you forgotten Bourbon already? "Quality search results" is obviously way down on their list! You can't tell anyone that you do a G search and don't see non-relevant BS and blackhat sites on the top of their SERP's! Now, that of course is not going to happen for EVERY search, but it IS happening MORE FREQUENTLY NOW, than EVER before! If they cared or their goal was to deliver "quality search results", this would NOT be happening now would it, and certainly would not be increasing!

the13thmajestic




msg:713448
 3:49 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

In fact, I am literally afraid to touch it for fear of making things worse.

Clint




msg:713449
 3:54 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Someone please tell me: How the h*** can I justify the effort and time if all it's going to get me is a swift kick in the a**?

Well....you can't justify it! It does all boil down to a waste of time and not justifying any effort when you've spent years on something following all of their rules, and getting hundreds and thousands of incoming links, only to be back-stabbed....or more accurately I should say, "dumped". All the while seeing blackhat and non-relevant crap climbing and replacing where you once were is the proverbial (perhaps literal) salt in the traumatic wound.

Clint




msg:713450
 3:58 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

You are absolutely right in your conclusions. As more and more sites are indexed the scale increases and PR appears to fall.

Harry, then during this how is it that some sites do not see their PR fall? Even some small one page insignificant sites with no incoming links do not fall. And, new sites with NO incoming links at all RISE?

the13thmajestic




msg:713451
 3:59 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

salt in the traumatic wound.
<----- That phrase lept easily to mind when I logged on and saw my pagerank, along with a few more choice phrases and vocal decibals.
Giacomo




msg:713452
 4:01 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

A new site, previously PR 0 on the toolbar, leaped up to PR 5 today. Its Google Directory listings still show PR 3 though. Looks like the directory PR hasn't been updated yet. Maybe we should expect more shifts in rankings soon?

the13thmajestic




msg:713453
 4:02 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sorry for the separate posts...

I'm even seeing sites whose developers obviously don't know the first thing about SEO showing up in the #1 position in the serps.

I won't elaborate with examples because I'd never be responsible for boosting the bottom lines of any of these sites.

Giacomo




msg:713454
 4:11 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just noticed that only 12 out of 18 datacenters are showing the new PR right now.

europeforvisitors




msg:713455
 5:20 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm even seeing sites whose developers obviously don't know the first thing about SEO showing up in the #1 position in the serps.

To paraphrase a skateboarding slogan, "Organic results are not a crime."

arran




msg:713456
 5:33 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint,

What is the PR of your homepage and what is the PR of the highest PR page linking to you?

arran.

texasville




msg:713457
 5:59 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

I really don't see why anyone is surprised about any of this. Google "seems" to be broken in all aspects simply for the reason that they are a public company now. Google changed direction some time ago when their focus became to go public and make the owners fabulously wealthy. Function is no longer part of it. When they made the dmoz the google directory and rolled out the toolbar with pagerank, it was just "bells and whistles". None of this stuff has any real meaning, Their algorythms don't detect "black hat" seo as proved in the searches I do. Paferank obviously is so flawed as represented in the pages of this thread. It is all about as effective as chrome around the tail lights on this years model. It is all done to increase "perceived value" to the stock buying public.
Why is google the number 1 search engine? Got a great pr team. Must have hired the same guys that originally convinced the buying public that a Saturn wasn't just a chevrolet pontiac. Good job Google!
Will there be changes made to improve? Absolutely not. All resources will be poured into my bells and whistles, more revenue generating enhancements solely to keep up the fallacy that google is the best.
One of these days 20/20 or 48 hours will have enough "geeks" on staff to do a dissection on google and it will put them back where they belong.

the13thmajestic




msg:713458
 6:12 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Organic results are not a crime."

I suppose that's fair but when you consider that versus the hours upon hours upon hours I've (you've) put into optimization, to see a page at #1 into which no effort was put, it's very discouraging.

Some results I've seen are outright search engine spam, breaking all the rules. Yet, there they are while I play by the rules and can't be found.

Clint




msg:713459
 6:19 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Texasville, good post. ;) That's exactly what it's going to take--CNN, FOX News, MSNBC, Dateline, 60 Minutes, 20/20, 48 hours, etc., to do some real digging. "Headline News" (part of CNN) is probably the ones to do it since they recently hired a lot of young computer and internet-savvy "geeks". Some of their current staff came from the now defunct ONCE GREAT ZDTV computer TV network (then changed to TechTV, now G4, which has also been huge step backwards for them with each name change).

I, (as I'm sure many others knew), that their IPO would be the beginning of the end for decent webmasters and their users. Coincidental? Maybe, but I doubt it. Looks like with every increase of their stock value, their SE (and now PR validity) drops more and more. When will the public realize this? It's going to take an exposť.

Coop99




msg:713460
 6:23 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyone notice a site that shows up in the google index when you query "domainnameonly" w/o dot com, but when you search for it using "domainname.com" or "www.domainname.com" there are no results at all.
When I search with the "domainnameonly" it even shows up with a title and description in the results. When I search for the "domain(space)name" it also shows up 1st page.

There is a www.flashpage that is indexed and when I query "domainnameonly" the url shows w/o "www" it is only "domainname.com"

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Sorry if this is confusing, also didnt know where else to post tried the new topic didnt work!

Clint




msg:713461
 6:30 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint,
What is the PR of your homepage and what is the PR of the highest PR page linking to you?

arran.

Arran, my main site's index page has gone from PR5 to PR3. (about 9-10 years old) and like I stated, its PR remained the same for years (even before it had NO LINKS!), since day one of the demonic PR toolbar.....until recently when this BS started did it drop. Last time I checked, the highest PR linking to me was a 5, but that's only out of about 50 sites I watch from time to time. There are about a thousand others that link to me that I never knew anything about and I don't know the PR of them.

I have other pages on my main site's domain that OUTRANK my index page, and NO ONE LINKS TO THEM!

My secondary semi-main site about 6-8 months old went from PR3 to PR1!

2 non-sales unrelated one page sites of mine stayed the same. PR3

Another site similar to them, went from PR3 to PR1.

A brand new site of mine, related to the field of my main and semi main site, up for only a few days, a blank page except for one line on it, no one linking to it, went to PR3!

Now, that's all the proof I need that it's "broken". Just like their SE. It has "blown a gasket", "thrown a rod" whatever you choose to use.

Clint




msg:713462
 6:36 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyone notice a site that shows up in the google index when you query "domainnameonly" w/o dot com, but when you search for it using "domainname.com" or "www.domainname.com" there are no results at all.
When I search with the "domainnameonly" it even shows up with a title and description in the results. When I search for the "domain(space)name" it also shows up 1st page.
There is a www.flashpage that is indexed and when I query "domainnameonly" the url shows w/o "www" it is only "domainname.com"

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Coop99, that probably is indicative of a "problem", but what I problem I doubt anyone can say. Your site should be showing up 1st all ways you describe. What you describe was happening to me several weeks ago when I got trashed in the G SE update, but that is no longer the case after I got back most of my G-SERP's.

texasville




msg:713463
 6:41 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Coop, when I search "domainnameonly" for my site, I get all my links. The ones google can't seem to find...lol..plus my main page and my site map show up with full descriptions.

Coop99




msg:713464
 6:55 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

texasville -

Thanks for the input - i am seeing all the BL when I type in "domainnameonly." I was specifically looking to see if the url had been indexed (index pg) in google. I was happy when I saw it 3rd down on the list below a couple of forums. There are full title and descriptions for all results.

But when I try to query the same "domainname" with .com or with www. it says -
Sorry, no information is available for the URL domainname.com or www.domainname.com.

The domain indexed for "domainnameonly" that I can see has NO www. infront of it.

I know how to look-up back links, my domain name, I know site: command - but this I havent seen before!

Hope this is more clear!

Event_King




msg:713465
 7:46 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

texasville - I agree. Google was once good, and served the market well, unfortunately it got too big, and when that happened greed set in, and quality went out the window.

I find this frustrating and would like to see them get rid of the confusing green bar. PageRank has served it's purpose and made them a ton of cash - indirectly anyway, and now we have the problem of instead of PageRank actually helping people, it's now confusing them and putting crazy ideas about site worth into the minds of those who don't know much anyway. That's got to be a bad thing, and if I were the owner with the most Google shares, I'd be asking questions about how 'our' current/potential clients and users are being treated right now.

Is the Google user happy with our results service?

What is the toolbar delivering to it's users and is it still of value?

How can we give superior ROI to advertisers, and aid the ones with the smaller budget? (not Adwords)

Questions like that want answering, but not just answered, but acted on and damn fast! People demand quality and results right? So give it to them and you then have customer retention again.

In anycase, the toolbar must be giving Google serious grief too - in the shape of spam sites, seo people manipulating sites, which must mess up their search results, which is why searchers use them in the first place. Wouldn't disposing of it be more helpful than keeping it or is the thought of webmaster ego boosts a little too exciting and profitable for google to let go of now?

Is there too much money to be made or lost from it. I sometimes wonder if Google hasn't slit it's own throat in some way, and on judging the various posts by webmasters, who's sites just lost decent rankings - I feel Google doesn't care. I never used Google, set them as my homepage or bought major advertising from them because of PageRank, because I knew that many would judge my portal as not that great and all boils down to a low PR score. Thanks Google.

All they want is money, and they'll do anything, create anything or say whatever to get it, and they don't care who's site they harm as long as they reach their goal of another 10 million that year.

It's not like this is a war webmasters can win, as so many are taken in by the Green God, it's accepted that low PR means a naff site and high PR means something great! If you stroke someone's ego for long enough, they'll believe almost anything you tell them, just look at the tricks the media plays on minor celebs.

The toolbar does the automatic massaging of the ego, and unless webmasters can see behind this - they might be taken in.

I'm only interested in my PR, because I know others are thinking about PR for them, and that others are looking at increasing their Ranking in the hope that a higher ranking gets them to A or B, and so this goes on and on.... Google MUST know this - they must.

Viral Marketing is all it is. If they remove the toolbar/PR idea, they lose millions in advertising budget alone - not to mention the 'hold' over webmasters. Don't forget also that webmasters are also potential marketers and customers for Google.

Makes you think don't it!

redaarchitect




msg:713466
 8:17 pm on Jul 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google Data center update PR

toolbarqueries.google.com ok
64.233.161.99ok
64.233.161.104ok
66.102.7.99ok
66.102.7.104ok
216.239.59.99not yet
216.239.59.104not yet
216.239.37.104ok
216.239.39.99ok
216.239.39.104ok
66.102.11.99not yet
66.102.11.104not yet
216.239.57.99ok
216.239.57.104ok
66.102.9.99not yet
66.102.9.104not yet
216.239.53.99ok

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