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Completely bummed out since Bourbon update
Traffic down 60-80%, AS revenue down by 75%+
fearlessrick

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 11:32 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have submitted a sitemap, made some changes to my site, sent an email to the address GG gave, nothing changed. Basically, my faith in Google AdSense has pretty much been rewarded by ruining my site and my plans.

Sure, this sounds like sour grapes, but since May 21, traffic and revenue dropped off a cliff. It's no longer worthwhile to update my site. Just as an explanation, I took what was once a subscription-based service in password protected pages and converted to publicly available pages with adsense. It was good, increasing income every month until Bourbon devastated it.

I've tried what I reasonably could but am at a point now that I am seriously considering chucking the entire site as the revenue isn't even worth thining about at this point. Anybody who has any reasonable ideas, please post or sticky me.

Bummed out and depressed...

 

fearlessrick

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 9:12 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

EFV, I don't think using your site is a good example only because of your constant pro-google comments and other instances of associations with google which others have pointed out on other threads.

I also don't believe for a moment that you didn't complain to, or at least, contact, Google.

Basically, I take everything you say with a large dose of salt. Not that I have any kind of axe to grind with you, but your mindset is fairly well known around these parts and may or may not have something to do with your rankings.

I do recall you being hit for a few days by Bourbon and then suddenly bouncing back. Any explanation for that?

We are all in this together, so to speak, though separate. No one opinion is better than another, though some may be closer to the truth. In reality, neither you nor I nor any other webmaster really knows what the truth is about how Google ranks sites, so trying to deflect someone's opinion becomes an exercise in futility, just like this post.

It should be noted that Google does have feedback forms at various spots on their sites, and I don't think they put them there just for show.

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 9:52 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google has "send us feedback" links.

I have yet to see any "send us threats" links.

[edited by: steveb at 9:52 pm (utc) on July 25, 2005]

Atticus



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 9:52 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google was almost certainly aware of EFV's drop in rankings earlier this year due to posts on WebmasterWorld.

The general tone of the first Bourbon (or was it Allegra) update thread, was "OMG, even EFV has fallen off the radar!" In other words, EFV's fall from the SERPS confirmed that even the whitest of the white hats could get nailed by the ever more capricious Google algos. This was discussed on this forum which Google is known to follow. After a couple months, EFV has for the most part floated back up to where he belongs.

The two other notable returns from oblivion were also sites which have been discussed publicly here -- Chantal's and FearlessRick's.

What does it all mean? I dunno.

vinylrecordsuk

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 10:27 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

My website dropped from number 1 to number 10 for my best 2 keyword phrase and traffic dropped from 13,000 to 4,000 unique visitors overnight.

My problem is getting google to understand that they
have not indexed the text on my home page.

If I copy and paste a section of the text and place it in a search, it does not appear in the search results. So although my position is high, in regard to the 3 million other results, I don't get hardly any visitors.

My page is effectively switched off. Google say I have no penalty, well it certainly feels like one.

My business has started to decline, I have run out of ideas and my regular customers are now bored with my constant sales and special offers. I need my visitors back.

I did not put all my eggs in 1 basket, Google did by obtaining 80% of the search engine market place. I am highly placed in all other Search Engines including Yahoo and MSN but they produce few results in comparison.

I have read on this forum that Google read these postings. Well Google, here it is in 2 simple words
PLEASE HELP.

Kind Regards
Nick

vinylrecordsuk

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 10:48 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

How can a website appear in a top 10 search result for BLUE WIDGETS in a 3 million page search, even though they dont mention BLUE WIDGETS anywhere on the website, not even in the meta tags.

Is google broken? I don't get it!

Nick

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 10:48 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

EFV, I don't think using your site is a good example only because of your constant pro-google comments

I can't imagine how anyone could think my reports of a 70-90% drop in Google referrals over a two-month were "pro-Google," but I guess "pro-Google" is in the eye of the beholder.

and other instances of associations with google which others have pointed out on other threads.

Nope. No associations with Google, other than being an AdSense publisher (as you are). Unlike some WW members, I haven't even drunk beer with Google engineers at search conferences.

I also don't believe for a moment that you didn't complain to, or at least, contact, Google.

I filed a "canonical" report, like a lot of other people who were having www/non-www problems. (I'm still seeing a lot of spurious www listings in the Google index, by the way, but at least www and non-www link: numbers are now the same.)

Basically, I take everything you say with a large dose of salt. Not that I have any kind of axe to grind with you, but your mindset is fairly well known around these parts and may or may not have something to do with your rankings.

If being "pro-Google" in some people's eyes is responsible for search rankings, how can you explain your return from the dead after your repeated attacks on Google is this forum?

I do recall you being hit for a few days by Bourbon and then suddenly bouncing back. Any explanation for that?

A few days? I lost 70-75% of my Google referrals two months before Bourbon, then lost another 10-15% during the first weekend of Bourbon before things settled down. As for why I mostly bounced back (I say "mostly" because some of my pages are still MIA), who knows? Some of us got slammed in late March and recovered after Bourbon; others were unaffected by the March mini-update but got hammered by Bourbon. I don't think anyone here is in a position to know exactly how Google determines its search rankings at any given point in time.

Side note: You say that you're now at #1 for whatever keyword(s) you track. The guy who was in the #1 spot before you took it over is probably just as unhappy as you were until a few days ago--and he probably thinks he deserves that #1 spot just as much as you do. The change in rankings doesn't mean that a mastermind at Google suddenly loves you and hates that other guy; it just means the algorithm gave a big shake and the SERPs were rearranged when the earthquake was over.

Swebbie

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 11:39 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

the algorithm gave a big shake and the SERPs were rearranged when the earthquake was over.

Much to the delight of the AdWords dept. at G-Plex, I'll bet. Heh.

Atticus



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 11:53 pm on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

EFV,

I don't think anybody gets their panties in a twist over dropping from a #1 listing to #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #15, or #22.

What is upsetting folks here is going from page one to page none, from 10,000 referrals a day to 0.

berto

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 12:12 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Also upsetting is having your main--and not uncommon or obscure--keywords/key phrases going supplemental at just ~150 or ~250 listings. Moreover, going supplemental absurdly prematurely for keywords/key phrases where the truncated (non-supplemental) SERPS are sometimes lined to the right by 10-20 sponsored ads using those very same keywords/key phrases.

theBear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 3:13 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Swebbie,

That would depend.

For example if the site is a content site it might not be in a position to purchase adwords to provide traffic.

I know of one case where the site was an adwords user at the time the site tanked its adwords budget was no longer completely depleted on a daily basis by Google. Seems that the pages that would match, were no longer ranking.

Oops.

Funny how there is always a counter example, huh?

Rx Recruiters

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 3:45 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Please sticky mail me if the July 22 filter killed anyone's site, as it did mine, and they had Adsense. I survived Bourbon and came out better than ever, (but only because of the last filter of July 2 or 3rd being removed (or updated)- Bourbon killed me otherwise. Google put the filter back on on July 22, and my Google refs went from 10,000 to 30 or 40 a day.

My main site has been #1 for the main keywords for over 5 years. I added Adsense in January, and the rankings have fluctuated wildly every since. I wonder if the last filter is an Adsense filter, and has something to do with the earnings announcement?

I have had yo-yo fluctuations of over $5000 a month in Adsense earning in the last 3 months due to this topsy turvy ranking. Right now, I can't survive off the $30 a day that this latest "adjustment" as made to my site. My non-adsense site was unaffected by the July 22 filter, so it makes you ponder- esp when a larger targeted site like mine can be #1 or #2 for 5 years, then I add a few lines of Adsense code to every page in my site, and I drop off the map.

By the way, NO site above me for any key word I am targeting has Adsense, and it is a high paying area. Please GoogleGuy, if you are reading this - the July 22 filter killed the most relavent site in the field (or at least IMHO :-))- Lets back it out NOW! :)

Another weird thing, even though my rankings are kaput due to last weeks adjustment - my Page rank increased sitewide in the latest PR update.

Another thought just crossed my head - I am sure that Adesnse earners who make over $10,000 or so a month have their sites "inspected" by Google - could this be a manual adjustment to correspond with some new Adwords roll-out?

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 5:31 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Rx Recruiters

>Please sticky mail me if the July 22 filter killed anyone's site, as it did mine, and they had Adsense.<

No need to sticky mail you ;-)

My site was badly affected by the 22nd July "filter", and I have mentioned it on this same thread. Pls view:

msg #:164
[webmasterworld.com...]

>My non-adsense site was unaffected by the July 22 filter, so it makes you ponder- esp when a larger targeted site like mine can be #1 or #2 for 5 years, then I add a few lines of Adsense code to every page in my site, and I drop off the map.<

That is very interesting observation. I recall some other fellow members mentioning something to that effect too on another thread in connection with Bourbon update (if I recall correctly).

Anybody else have noticed the same?

Swebbie

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 5:55 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I know of one case where the site was an adwords user at the time the site tanked its adwords budget was no longer completely depleted on a daily basis by Google. Seems that the pages that would match, were no longer ranking.

Oops is right! You just made my point even stronger. If you're an AdWords client and are in the content network and - OOPS! - the most relevant sites your ads used to show on suddenly disappear from the index, what happens? Why, looky there, your ads now show up more often on Google's property. And gosh, it just so happens that means Google gets to keep more of your advertising $$$. They don't have to share with the rest of us. Funny how that works, isn't it?

HarryM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 9:17 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't believe in conspiracy theories. What I consider more likely is that sites that run Adsense or use Adwords are probably run by web-savvy webmasters and are therefore more likely to be highly optimized and can more easily fall foul of Google's filters.

union_jack

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 9:46 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have like many of you been totally wiped out by Bourbon, i have taken a back seat and tried to let the dust settle. I have made a few changes to my site in order to see if there were any positive benefits, there as i have expected been none.

my question is should i just take a long vacation, if google changes its algorthim i may well drop back in, or should i be actively working at a solution even thoe i have no idea what to do.

I must point out that my site is totally white hat. one thing that does worry me a little is my logs are show refferalls from sex sites which i have definately not exchanged links.

Finally some six months ago when i was doing well it was pointed out to me that i was 302 instead of 301 which i correected a couple of months before Bourbon, i have to point out that even when i was 302ing there was no duplicate site and google only showed from wwww.mysite.com and not mysite.com so i dont think this was a problem.

union_jack

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 9:48 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

for the record i just wanted to say that i belive Google current results are there best ever, unfortunately i have been wiped out.

HarryM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 10:13 am on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Has anybody else noticed a regional factor?

My site is a .com hosted in the UK. Google traffic has returned, but only from certain regions. Still nothing from the US or Canada, and patchy results from the UK, but back to previous levels in eastern Europe and the Far East.

For example a specific keyword search on google.com.sg puts the page at #4 which is about where it is on other SEs, but on google.co.uk (pages from the UK) it is at #49, and on google.co.uk (web) or google.com it is nowhere to be seen.

The last time I had this problem was with Yahoo when they dropped Inktomi. I got Yahoo traffic from the Far East, but nothing from anywhere else for about six months. And that was a Yahoo filter problem.

flicker

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 1:00 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

>I don't think anybody gets their panties in a twist
>over dropping from a #1 listing to #2, #3, #4, #5,
>#6, #7, #8, #9, #15, or #22.

That's not true, actually. There are several posts in this thread complaining passionately about just that--not about losing one spot in rank, of course, but about the fact that their site can plunge from #1 to #22 and then back up to #3, and Google must be broken/desperate if its algorithms change so drastically that it can't even make up its mind about whether a site is relevant enough for the first page or not.

I think everyone can agree that something is seriously wrong when a site's not even ranking for its own name--that's gotta be either a penalty on the site, or a flaw in Google.

wiseapple

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 1:23 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just a note... Quality sites have been falling out of Google since at least Feb. 2nd. This is when our site disappeared. The following has not corrected the situation:

- Emails to Google.
- Redirecting non-www to www.
- Cleanup up of anything that could be considered seo.

Basically went from 10-15k refs per day down to maybe a few hundred.

I hoping google will one day flick the switch on our site.

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 1:45 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>>Just a note... Quality sites have been falling out of Google since at least Feb. 2nd.

I would date it back to about Dec 16th (ish or even late November after the massive crawl and update to the page count to over 8 Billion) - others might date it back further - depends when your site was hit - they was a big hit end of Nov (from reports) then Mid December - then Early Feb and then Bourbon.

ltedesco

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 1:57 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

for the record i just wanted to say that i belive Google current results are there best ever, unfortunately i have been wiped out.

Yeah right! ;op

vinylrecordsuk

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 2:14 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

CAN ANYONE ANSWER THIS?

How can a website appear in a top 5 search result for BLUE WIDGETS in a 3 million page search at google.com, even though they dont mention BLUE WIDGETS anywhere on the website, not even in the meta tags.

Is google broken? I don't get it!

Nick

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 2:24 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Nick

Anchor Text.

Bard

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 2:25 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Because the way it's working right now if you have a bunch of in-links from sites that are blue widget related... You can be swiss blue green algae and you will still list well for blue widgets. Now I ask you is that a relevancy system or an irrelevancy system? Google really ought to rethink this model and make some adjustments. Google is all about the links but quality versus quantity versus relevancy is kinda FUBARD.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 2:56 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google really ought to rethink this model and make some adjustments.

They're making adjustments all the time. Some adjustments obviously work better than others do. :-)

theBear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 3:13 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Swebbie, you are partialy correct.

However the network isn't just Google properties.

Swebbie

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 4:52 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

However the network isn't just Google properties.

I meant that a lot of AW advertisers probably increase their allocation to have ads placed in Google search results pages and away from the content network (non-Google sites). That obviously means that G keeps the ad revenues and doesn't have to share with any AS publishers. We can quibble over whether or not it's in any way related to all the SERPs upheavals, but either way, it benefits G in terms of AW revenues. That certainly makes their shareholders happy.

walkman



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 5:38 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

is it possible that Google could make the SERPS bad (at least temporarily) to increase it's revenue by paying webmasters? Sure it's possible.

Is it likely? Ping me when Bernie Ebbers takes over Google, or when Google starts missing Wall Street's expectations quarter after quarter.

kdobson99

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 6:06 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Earlier I posted about my site falling from the rankings last Friday at the same time the cache reverted to an old cache and the results seemingly being from mid July. It remains that way on most datacenters. However, on datacenters: 66.102.9.99 and 66.102.9.104 my pages are back, better than ever.

I was wanting some feedback from those of you whose sites that were hit by Burbon but came back last week as to whether these datacenters are better or worse than those you are seeing in the normal results. Also, for those hit this past week, I would like to know if your results are back on these two datacenters.

walkman



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 6:49 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> However, on datacenters: 66.102.9.99 and 66.102.9.104 my pages are back, better than ever.

Google has plenty of DCs, but not all get shown to searchers, and not all get the same rotation. Google plays with them, maybe has the students check relevancy from a certain DC till Google get it "right".

that's what I think anyway ;)

try2

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 30370 posted 7:28 pm on Jul 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yes, think you're right! It's very impressive to see the referers but when I copy the link into my browser I can't see the result the G user must have had...

So what? Does this mean that we're really completely addicted to a random machine?

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