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How to do a reinclusion request?
Might as well have this in an easily findable place
Janiss




msg:772181
 4:37 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

I keep seeing mentions of reinclusion requests, but not a lot of specifics about if, when and how to do them. Plus, since it's usually mentioned in the Bourbon thread, the mentions get lost in a sea of posts. So can those in the know answer these questions:

1. If a formerly nicely ranking website now appears as: "Sorry, no information is available for the URL www.mysite.com" when you seach on its domain name, should I ask for reinclusion? (The site is totally innocent - for those who saw some of my posts in the Bourbon thread, its the site about my cat - nothing sleazy or black hat about it whatsoever! Black hat... she's not even a black cat!)

2. If my website got way trashed by Bourbon (like, Google traffic down 90%) but is still in the SERPs, should I send in a reinclusion request? (This is about my other, much larger site.)

3. Does reinclusion mean just for the homepage URL or every page that I think got trashed? (I hope this isn't the latter - we're talking nearly 1,000 pages over several sites!)

4. How do I send a reinclusion request to Google?

5. What do I say to them?

That's what I'd like to know. Anyone else can add pertinent questions too. Hopefully some of you will have pertinent answers! :-)

 

lufc1955




msg:772182
 8:43 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google don't drop a site for no reason, so if I were you I would make sure that your site is completely "clean" with lots of good quality content. Check all the coding. Make sure that your site complies with all the Google guidelines that are shown on their site. You need to make sure that you have some good links to your site as well.

Once you are sure your site is ok you can send a reinclusion request from the Google support page. Include as much detail as possible about any problems you have found and what you have done to correct it. You will also have to say that you won't break the rules again (and mean it!) Depending on the problems you have found and how long you were using spam techniques for you are likely to be excluded for a while. However, other possible reasons for being dropped include your server being down when the crawler came around or lack of links, in which case you might find that your site will come back after it has been crawled again or once you get some good incoming links.

You need to find our what the problem was before sending a reinclusion request to Google.

Janiss




msg:772183
 10:38 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, with one site, I just found out that the reason Google seems to have problems with it is probably because it was hijacked. So it's something over which I may not have any control. It does comply in all other areas, and absolutely all the content on it is original, unique and loved by all who stop by. :-) Seriously, I can't even say I used "white hat" seo on most of the pages - more like no seo whatsoever! And the few pages where I did any SEO it was definitely of the "white hat" variety. (I'm talking about the cat site here.)

The larger site is still in the SERPs, although in a much reduced manner. Is reinclusion an option in this case, if it complies with all that Google decrees? (And it most likely does - I'd scan it with a fine tooth comb to make sure, but there's no reason why it shouldn't. It's one of those "authority" content-type sites) Or is reinclusion pointless since it's already, to a certain extent, included already?

Panacea




msg:772184
 11:20 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

lufc1955,

>>Google doesn’t drop a site for no reason<<

What planet are you from? Sure Google drop sites for no reason and they say so themselves: “Each time we update our database of webpages, our index shifts: we find new sites, we lose some sites, and sites' rankings change.”

Sites can also get hijacked with various 302 redirecting methods which can cause Google to penalize the site in question with duplicate penalty.

Sites are effectively dropped from Google once they sink into the supplemental index. Once stuck in the supplemental index your site will never return. If the index page is just listed by URL with no description you are in the supplemental results.

Requesting a re-inclusion request is a waste of time. I have started several posts to get a consensus from other webmaster to see if anyone has been successful - the answer is always NO. The only reply Google sends you for submitting a re-inclusion request is a meaningless canned response.

sailorjwd




msg:772185
 11:52 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

I thought GoogleGuy said they would be processing reinclusion requests last Monday?

Is there such a thing as a 'penalty removal' request?

ugnius




msg:772186
 4:56 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

lufc1955 did you just found the internet?
Google dropped a lot of legitimate sites without any reasons with the recent update.

reseller




msg:772187
 6:23 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

sailorjwd

>I thought GoogleGuy said they would be processing reinclusion requests last Monday?<

Unfortunately and with all due respect, it seems that GoogleGuy words in this connection are empty ones. Several friends have done exactly what GG told them to do , also in other threads, but they got ZERO results.

lufc1955




msg:772188
 8:04 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Panacea

Even if a site drops out for what appears to be no reason to you or me, I am sure that Google will have their own reasons. As far as reinclusion requests are concerned I am in the same boat as you and have spent the last 9 months trying to find out as much information on the subject as I can. I think that we all have to bear in mind that when Google imposes a penalty it is the equivalent of a jail sentence for our sites. Only once we have served the sentence will a reinclusion request be considered. However, I also think that the penalty's are too harsh as they condemn good sites who have made one mistake to the scrap heap. All I do now is keep building my site with the best quality unique content with the aim of making the site the best in its category. Other search engines think my site is great, so it's Googles loss.

Google needs a better appeal process.

danny




msg:772189
 8:08 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

they condemn good sites who have made one mistake to the scrap heap

Or in some cases sites that haven't made any mistakes at all or none that I can find, anyway!

joeduck




msg:772190
 4:15 am on Jun 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Janice -

* Send the reinclusion request via the form at google.com/support/

* Note "reinclusion request" in subject line

* List all pages that no longer appear and beg to have them put back in index.

* Consider adding a google sitemap - my personal thinking is that part of the reason for that new feature is to expedite the reinclusion process.

Also watch for Googleguy posting a special address for Bourbon comments - he said he was going to do that soon.

Will Spencer




msg:772191
 7:17 am on Jun 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

lufc1955:

Listen to Panacea and read _Google Information for Webmasters_ at [google.co.uk...]

It clearly states:
Each time we update our database of web pages (about once a month), our index shifts: we find new sites, we lose some sites, and site rankings change. If your site was dropped from Google and you have not made major changes to it in the last month, we will likely pick it up again in our next index. It's possible your site was simply inaccessible when our robots tried to crawl it.

Unfortunately, the reality is even worse than this admission.

Billy Batson




msg:772192
 6:42 am on Jun 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

GG recently updated his thread to say when you follow up on reinclusion requests to reply to the form email you get sent. It includes a tracking/ticket number for the request.

I'm waiting on one right now. Unfortunately I can only guess at the reason why my site received a penalty (possibly duplicate content).

I want to know if Google will accept calls from webmasters wanting to check the progress of their reinclusion request? I'd be more than happy to pay for an international long-distance call for some peace of mind.

ugnius




msg:772193
 7:24 am on Jun 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

you will get automated response if you'll do reinclusion request. which looks like bla bla bla your site is still in the index and is not penalized. do a search for www.blablabla.com and if you see the result, you are not penalized.
yea right... dropped from top 20 to bottom 1000 for few thousands of keyword combinations within one day and NO it was not a penalty. just 1000 sites magically became better...

anttiv




msg:772194
 1:43 pm on Jun 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Aren't re-inclusion requests meant only for sites that were removed manually for dirty tricks? Correct me if I'm wrong. But if your site can be found at page 1000 then it is still in the index and there's no need to "re-include" it because it is already included... it may be under a filter of some kind so you should ask Google to remove the filter - which they won't do.

I have learned through my experiences that you should never rely of one domain address only. Be ready to move your site to a new domain at any time. Your high ranking and money making site can loose all Google traffic in one night for reasons you will never know.

nutsandbolts




msg:772195
 3:30 pm on Jun 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

My wife has just submitted a reinclusion request, her 3 year old site dropped off Google's index (not just badly ranked)

Let's see how long it takes Google to respond with an answer!

joeduck




msg:772196
 8:44 pm on Jun 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

anttiv -

Excellent summary - that is my impression as well of how the support notes will say "you have no penalty" when you've been killed by filtering of results which will NOT be adjusted manually. I believe G when they say they do not manually adjust results except in extreme cases. If they did there'd be a lot less spam and fewer good site casualities. I think the problem at Google is that they have become religious about the algorithm, trusting it more than human intervention which is now needed desparately for the big money sectors if they want to preserve their place in search.

walkman




msg:772197
 8:57 pm on Jun 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> Google don't drop a site for no reason
in a ideal world, but in reality mistakes happen. We all make mistakes. I would give Google a couple of weeks to see if the site comes back on it's own. If not, send the request. As other mentioned it, make sure nothing is fishy. Just because your competitors are doing it (and haven't been caught yet), doesn't mean that's OK with a Google engineer.

>> If my website got way trashed by Bourbon
I think re-inclusion is only if the site is no longer indexed. Being on page 45736 is no reason to send one, they will be ignored (from my experience). Now if GoogleGuy asks people to send their trashed sites once Bourbon is done, that's a different story.

Billy Batson




msg:772198
 10:48 pm on Jun 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't think what I am presuming Google penalized for me was a dirty trick. I think I got slammed for duplicate content through providing printer firendly pages for my readers. Hardly a dirty trick.

Panacea




msg:772199
 3:40 pm on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

walkman,

>> I think re-inclusion is only if the site is no longer indexed. Being on page 45736 is no reason to send one, they will be ignored (from my experience). Now if GoogleGuy asks people to send their trashed sites once Bourbon is done, that's a different story.<<

What is the difference between being in position 45736, or being stuck in the supplemental index?

What do you think the definition of “trashed’ is?

walkman




msg:772200
 3:55 pm on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> What is the difference between being in position 45736, or being stuck in the supplemental index?

technically it's the same. Even being #100 is the same as far as money goes; you make nothing. All I know (from my exp) is that if your site is indexed, google will send you the default: you have no penalty, serps change, all is automated etc. etc. I guess being supplemental is different, maybe they'll look at it since maybe you've been "hijacked"...

sailorjwd




msg:772201
 4:45 pm on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

So, to summarize...

For those of us at position 45736 and G says 'you have no penalty' that means they have not manually assigned a penalty.

So there are automatic algorithmic penalties that effectively do the same thing as hand removal, Right?

And I guess it is true that most of us think the automatic penalties are often based on some form of duplicate content?

And, there are 3 things we can do;

1) do nothing and hope the algo changes
2) attempt to guess and fix what might be wrong and wait for another major update (3 months?)
3) switch to a new domain and hope you shake lose all the 302's (if that's what was causing the problem)?

Question for you webmaster experts... If I put NOINDEX tag on pages with little content will that definitely take them out of G's equation?

gsr20det




msg:772202
 11:15 pm on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sailor,

To your bottom line there is no difference in being on page 46,539 or not being in Google's index at all, but there is a difference to Google. The site that is on page 46,539 is listed in Google's index and some SERP work will bring it closer to the top (can't go too much further down). It does not need to be submitted for reinclusion, but perhaps there is a reson it's ranked so low that is maybe unjust - and hopefully Google will include it later.

A site that was once in Google's index and is no longer there has been removed and needs to be added back in (reinclusion).

I am currently working on a site that has been removed from Google - oh the fun!

Tom

Anat




msg:772203
 2:57 pm on Jun 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I actually had a good experience with reinclusion. I bought a site that was not idexed, despite being a few months old, having quite a few backlinks etc.
After buying the site I found out the previous owner has several domain names pointing at the same site, which may have been the reason for the ban. I could see no other.

I submitted the support form, don't think I even used the term reinclusion, just told them about the situations and about how I suspect the previous owner may have played it wrong, but it wasn't my fault and I could not change that. They responded with the generic "we understand your concern and will forward this to our engineers". It took five weeks or so but the site was unbanned and even got it's PR5 on the next PR update :)

I have recently purchased an expired domain. Didn't have any backlinks as far as I could tell and I bought it because I liked its sound. There's not a whole lot of content on the site, but I have been building links to it for quite a while and it's still not indexed. I dropped Google a word about it a couple of weeks ago, and got the same reply. I'm waiting patiently now. :)

errorsamac




msg:772204
 4:48 am on Jun 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I submitted a reclusion request a week ago and received a reply today (good turnaround, I thought it would take longer). However, they did not offer me any real information. It basically told me that they could not offer individual assistance at this time and to just look over their quality guidelines for things like cloaking, trading links, etc. The problem is, I wasn't doing any of those things when I got banned. I was banned for changing DNS/IP/whois info at the same time. The reason I believe that is because that the page format/content itself has not changed it months (it was updated daily w/articles, but it's all template based and none of the templates changed). But immediately after switching servers, bam.. I'm banned. Not sure what else to do now? Ideas?

nutsandbolts




msg:772205
 8:43 am on Jun 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Same here with the e-mail reply errorsamac.

Really Google, what is the point in this service if you send generic replies to people who have neither cloaked, purchased links or have any hidden text.

What is the point when GoogleGuy suggestions writing in, but all you get is a reply which is totally irrelevant?

I find it deeply frustrating.

Crush




msg:772206
 10:00 am on Jun 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think it is sad too. Canned response for all the cash we spend on adwords ( in excess of 200k now). Pfftt.

lufc1955




msg:772207
 12:23 pm on Jun 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I agree. Our site was banned 9 months ago. Cleaned up soon after. Been trying for 7 months to get a reply from Google. Have spent tens of thousands on Adwords like we have done for years. I would spend more if I could get some response on our predicament from them.

errorsamac




msg:772208
 5:26 am on Jun 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

lufc1955, it's pretty disheartening to know that after 7 months you are still not back in Google's index. Does anyone know if reclusion requests work and the typical turnaround time for them? Like I said earlier, I received a reply to a reclusion request a week later, but I am still not in the index and won't be until I find a problem with my website and re-submit my request. I ultimately ended up re-explaining and re-identifying the problems with the site and hopefully this time they can help me out. However, just judging from the posts here, it sounds like I might be better off moving to another domain name? Thoughts?

nutsandbolts




msg:772209
 4:59 pm on Jun 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

After my wife replied again in a courteous manner, responding to the points they made, a googler said they will forward the request to the engineers for investigation. Fingers crossed.

errorsamac




msg:772210
 7:01 pm on Jul 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

nutsandbolts, I received the same reply from Google (fwding to engineers) about a week ago. Have you received any other contact from Google or have you gotten back into the index? I'm not sure how long it typically takes to get back into the Google index after a ban (anyone know?). Right now my site has been gone for a month so far, but again - it's only been a week since they said my msg has been fwded to Google engineers for further investigation, so it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a couple more weeks to show up again.

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