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This 819 message thread spans 28 pages: < < 819 ( 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 28 > >     
Google Update Bourbon Part 4
GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 12:02 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued from part 3 here: [webmasterworld.com...]


I did the rounds to check on the state of various data updates. I'd estimate that the "0.5" (not algorithmic changes, but rather responses to various spam/porn complaints + processing reinclusion requests) should go out this weekend sometime or possibly Monday. There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search, and that new binary should have the hooks to turn on the third set of data. Regarding finishing up the second piece of data, there's still two data centers with older data. Those data centers will probably be switched over by Monday. By Monday, 2.5 of the 3.5 things will probably be on.

 

deanril

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 4:03 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well the only way for "Webmasters" to have any voice or anything would be to have a Webmasters Union of sorts....... Numbers speak......

Until that day there will be Google and there will be individual Webmasters.

Even then the Union would have to be huge, even then the Webmasters within the Union would have to abide by the Union Decissions(which would never happen......) so basicly in the end there is absolutly nothing we can do except keep typing in this thread ;)

wattsnew

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 4:11 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Quite simple really.

Site#1: Optimize your site for Yahoo. Shut out GoogleBot.
Site#2: A scraper that scrapes and links to site#1 with Adsense.(gets first page SERP in Google, it seems....)

Win Win And no micturation with every new update!

japanese

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 4:12 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

penfold25

Yes in essence you are correct.

But it is not free google ranking most webmasters here want. It is fair play they are seeking. The internet is in the public domain and google has an 80% stranglehold on it. If google told outright to webmasters that it has no commitment to rank anybody and that its results can be volatile then webmasters would at least be warned.

Fair play mate, that is all they are asking for. Not a lecture on alternative methods of advertising.

deanril

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 4:18 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Somebody in this thread had mention Human editing, and at some point "to be fair" Google will need to do that, but I dont believe its anytime soon.

You know what really gets me though!

Is after all these updates, and algorythms still I see hidden text and hidden links.

I mean were talking like 1990 techniques and they still work!

sblake

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 4:21 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

"There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search.."

My guess at a translation from engineer-speak:

"We've had some odd results related to Chinese, Japanese, and Korean-related searches, that we're trying to fix these bugs this week. Maybe with a two-part fix."

theBear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 4:25 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

"We've had some odd results related to Chinese, Japanese, and Korean-related searches, that we're trying to fix these bugs this week. Maybe with a two-part fix."

Part 1 breaks it for the PGR case and part 2 doesn't fix a thing so when the binary pushed data hits the great computer coughs up a hairball and a recursive SOC4.

And with that I invoke both rule 4 and rule 5.

cyberfyber

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 4:35 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

theBear

hehe, I know I've been lurking around here too long when I know half your rules by heart!

;-)

penfold25

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 4:45 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Fair Play?, what rubbish, google can do what they like, i use them and continue to use them because their are fantastic at what they do, by providing great results instantly. They owe you nothing and neither do to any webmaster, if anything they do it as a courtesy. When google first started, it never became popular because webmasters decided it was so. Im not sure what propaganda machine is happening here but google still provides great results for me, the only thing ive seen kill their results have been the increasing competition between affiliates (eg finding a hotels office homepage is very hard). If anything this is webmaster's fault, not google's. However to maintain their index to be fresh and full of quality results they do work with webmasters to encourage them to stick to quality, however with many new webmasters getting on a bandwagon it is getting alot harder. This massive explosion of competition on the web occured with adsense and with all these people jumping in for the "easy money". Then again that is still not google's fault. I think it is a very bad business model to rely on google, they bring most of the web traffic, however ever thought about advertising offline so they think of you before they think of google when buying a certain product?

caveman

WebmasterWorld Senior Member caveman us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 5:10 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

> Someone put it me out of my misery, what's that all about?

TG, I'm not the only one. LOL.

fearlessrick

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 5:16 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I did the rounds to check on the state of various data updates. I'd estimate that the "0.5" (not algorithmic changes, but rather responses to various spam/porn complaints + processing reinclusion requests) should go out this weekend sometime or possibly Monday. There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search, and that new binary should have the hooks to turn on the third set of data. Regarding finishing up the second piece of data, there's still two data centers with older data. Those data centers will probably be switched over by Monday. By Monday, 2.5 of the 3.5 things will probably be on.

I love parsing people's statements so I thought I'd give GG's a try. And whoever said that Greenspan has nothing on the the google guy, is on the right track, but the Maestro is still by far the best, especially when he gets into mumble mode.

OK here we go:

I did the rounds to check on the state of various data updates.

After golfing with my buddies, I checked my email and made a call to GoogleGirl, then I decided I better say something here just for appearances, since, after all, it is Friday.

I'd estimate that the "0.5" (not algorithmic changes, but rather responses to various spam/porn complaints + processing reinclusion requests) should go out this weekend sometime or possibly Monday.

Note the use of "estimate", "should" and "possibly" (more on this later) - let's not be too specific; and also that these are not not algo changes. This is probably better known as "tweaking" or hand coding. Google's algo is busted or simply not very good at this point. Thanks for letting us know.

There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search, and that new binary should have the hooks to turn on the third set of data.

Um, uh, this is even better than Japanese's "micturate" construct. I would have to believe that 98% of the world's population has no idea what this means. If GG's trying to be coy, he's done well. As for leaving otherwise intelligent people completely in the dark, nice job. In reality, it's probably gibberish, beacuse it sounds so tech-y. Note the use of the word "should" twice in the same sentence. Is this what the Ph.D.'s are telling him? This or that "should" work? And what exactly do those hooks look like?

Regarding finishing up the second piece of data, there's still two data centers with older data. Those data centers will probably be switched over by Monday. By Monday, 2.5 of the 3.5 things will probably be on.

Finally, something specific. There are two DCs with older data. Well, turn those back on for now! They worked! When you get all the kinks out, then throw up the new stuff. Again, in the last two sentences, "probably" shows up twice again.

Not so good, this one. Didn't really have any punch. Too vague.

Now imagine GG testifying to Congress. Do you think Joe Biden might ask some pointed questions? Maybe a few Senators would ask that he speak English.

Also imagine if a major corporation put forward some guy with a bag over his head as their PR guy and called him Mr. Whatever? This borders on the absurd or stupid or both. Maybe Google thinks it's cute. I think it's a four letter word which also starts with "c".

I agree with Japanese. We need real answers. Did anyone else notice how GG's suggestion to not look at the data for a few days was sonehow similar to the phrase, "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain," from the Wizard of Oz.

I'll reassert my contentions. Yahoo and every othe SE doesn't put people through these gyrations, so why should Google and why should we accept it? Why shouldn't we support SE's that work.

As for code and changing it to suit Google, why does my site rank #1 for specific keywords whether www or non-www on Yahoo and MSN and elsewhere, but not Google?

If you've been affected by this and hope that it will all be fixed by the 21st (how laughable is that?), what about the next update, or then one after that?

And to those who won't even entertain the possibility that G's results are somehow tied to $$$, and who think that discussion is somehow not relevant, well, you can micturate higher on braided twine.

Finally, for the company who professed to "do no evil", the philosophical discussion should focus on whether one can do evil unintentionally, which may be the case here.

Good night.

fearlessrick

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 5:22 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Part 1 breaks it for the PGR case and part 2 doesn't fix a thing so when the binary pushed data hits the great computer coughs up a hairball and a recursive SOC4.

Well, done. Bravo!

limitup

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 5:52 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

All I can say is short GOOG and you'll get rich over time. Google's "glory days" are already done. End of story.

mickeymart

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 6:29 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>Finally, for the company who professed to "do no evil", the philosophical discussion should focus on whether one can do evil unintentionally, which may be the case here.<<

the fact they have to even say that is very telling.

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 6:31 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy

>I did the rounds to check on the state of various data updates. I'd estimate that the "0.5" (not algorithmic changes, but rather responses to various spam/porn complaints + processing reinclusion requests) should go out this weekend sometime or possibly Monday. There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search, and that new binary should have the hooks to turn on the third set of data. Regarding finishing up the second piece of data, there's still two data centers with older data. Those data centers will probably be switched over by Monday. By Monday, 2.5 of the 3.5 things will probably be on.<

Thanks GG for the update.

Lets hope that the folks at Google give the reinclusion requests of our fellow members mentioned in several threads the priority they deserve ;-)

Jane_Doe

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jane_doe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 6:56 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I really want to know what to do to make my site acceptable to the Bourbon algorithm.

I know your site. If it doesn't come back after the update settles, you may want to look at how many pages of content you have versus the number of shopping pages you have in your site that consist only of affiliate links.

You may also want to consider getting rid of the Amazon datafeed pages.

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 6:59 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

"I'll reassert my contentions. Yahoo and every othe SE doesn't put people through these gyrations, so why should Google and why should we accept it? Why shouldn't we support SE's that work."

Umm, how do you propose we not accept it?

Janiss

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 7:05 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just a couple more notes about my main website:

The homepage is PR6.

I never optimized the pages specifically for Google - I'm not an SEO expert and I don't play one on TV :-), so I just try to make sure the words describing the main topic of my site are in the right places (title tags, h1 tags, anchors, etc.) without overdoing it. Like I said, the quality of the content is important to me and when push comes to shove, I'll take quality of content over keyword density. Usually, I've discovered, if I write a good, informative article, the keyword density is adequate. But I haven't really targeted my SEO to Google specifically. And in any case, I noticed that a lot of people who were coming to my site from Google were doing searches using phrases I couldn't have possibly imagined! In any case, that is all gone now, except for a few keyword phrases that seem to have stuck. Interestingly, the couple of times I've really worked on optimizing a page, it has worked - the last time I tried it, the page is still ranking in the top 3 on MSN for the chosen keyword phrase, and it was #2 or #3 on Google before Bourbon kicked it out. So I must have absorbed something about SEO through some sort of osmosis. ;-)

I do agree about going outside of the internet to market and publicize your site. Go to your local radio stations and newspapers - like, really local and work your way up from there. Just find an angle and go for it. Go where people who are interested in your topic congregate and make yourself known and become a force in the industry. The frustrating thing for me was I was just starting to get this all underway (the outside-the-web stuff) when Bourbon hit, so I haven't had the time to build it up. I was hoping that the traffic and income I was formerly getting would buy me time while I was setting my marketing plans in place. Now I feel under the gun, and it's really not as much fun to do marketing when you're under this kind of pressure. But with or without Google traffic, it's really a necessary step for most webmasters, I think. I was always rather disturbed that so much of my traffic came from Google, to be honest - every time I checked my stats, that was a reminder that it was an accident waiting to happen. And of course, now my stats look like a wreck. (Well, I thought that was kind of funny!)

Hope this offers a few more clues. And suggestions on what to do if Bourbon has trashed your stats.

max_mm

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 7:56 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Re: message #832.

Bravo fearlessrick! i just loved your post.

Ditto every word. That guy doing the rounds is full of that four letter "c" word.

Don't you just love them “riddles” :)

Busted algo at its best!

"Huston we have a (HUGE) problem". Thats what i read.

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 8:14 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Folks

Lets differentiate between our opinions on Google and our fellow member GoogleGuy.

If you read my posts, I belong to those who criticized / criticizes Google for what they have done since allegra. Not only because I lost 75% of my Google referrals, but also because I see Google penalizing and hurting decent hard working people, droop in quality of serps, everflux serps and you name it.

However, I see the feedback of GoogleGuy of value. In my case, when GG didn´t dismiss the existance of "everchanging" serps since allegra but preferred to call it "everflux", I got from GG an indirect confirmation that "The Rotating Algos" theory do exist in practice causing the "everchanging serps" / "everflux".

I really don´t question the motives of GoogleGuy and I don't question the motives of any fellow member on these great forums.

Lets keep our focus on this Bourbon Boy, because I expect very critical changes to happen next few weeks. Good or bad changes? I don't know.

Wishing you all a great weekend!

Will Spencer

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 8:36 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'd estimate that the "0.5" (not algorithmic changes, but rather responses to various spam/porn complaints + processing reinclusion requests) should go out this weekend sometime or possibly Monday.

That would be wonderful. I thought my reinclusion request had just been tossed into the bit bucket.

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 8:41 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

100000% Agree Reseller :)

Added to that I dont really question that motives of Google - they may make mistakes but who doesn't.

Will Spencer - I hoping that re-inclusion requests is a good thing for me to :) :)

arran

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 9:05 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Somebody in this thread had mention Human editing, and at some point "to be fair" Google will need to do that, but I dont believe its anytime soon.

Haven't you heard of eval.google.com? See front page of searchenginewatch for more details...

There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search..

Think this means they are distributing the new binary files (with algo tweaks) to all servers in the google environment.

spaceylacie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 9:19 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Humans! I thought there was something funny about Google!

japanese

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 10:24 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Penfold,

You sound like a sonorous dictator pontificating your astonishment at what propaganda machine is at work here. I had to turn down the volume on my computer to understand your preaching.

Your indications that this is all webmasters fault is the funniest read I have come across lately. Which webmaster created bourbon?

OK, so google can do as it pleases. Not accountable to anybody. A monopoly out of control and out to get webmasters.

Forget being a pontificating despot. You aint good at it and certainly not convincing. They went out of fashion years ago. Peoples livelihoods are at stake here and you are making fun of it.

Any monopoly must be made to understand that responsibility is the only thing that can harness such might. Thousands of online business get crushed everytime google sneezes. This would not be as severe if they were a responsible company and enough competition existed.

Google is a testament that when someone gets too big they start pushing their weight around. Huh, the bigger they are the harder they fall mate. And you are wrong on another thing, I would much rather rank last in a minor engine than rank top in google. It has become a cheating search engine and could not give a damn what it does other than cheating webmasters.

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 10:48 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

You sound like a sonorous dictator pontificating your astonishment

Do you own a mirror?

japanese

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 11:01 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Penfold,

On another note. How do you account for making better quality search based on google's own ideals. I can't see anywhere where a survey was done to assess what Joe Surfer wants.

It is all behind closed doors. google is not the God of search science. It learned all it knows from previous pioneering search engines and just happened to get a good name and dollar support. If you done your homework you will be under no illusion that google got financed big time on several occasions. If it were not for the support it got it would not have been the giant it is now.

A child could asses that the dollar support it got from big noises in the valley was from people who did not know much more about search than average Joe Surfer. These monies were investments in the company to ultimately turn google into a money making machine and it could only be done by woowing webmasters accroos the globe.

Yep, we supported google, I for one am guilty in that respect. But I understood at the time that Sergei Brin and Larry Page were never going to go down the stock market route. Had I known I certainly would have kept my home page elswhere.

When I worked as a computer maintenance I must have set a thousand home pages to google. Sorry msn default page. And you say that google got to where it is entirely on its own. Pull the other one.

japanese

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 11:04 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Tropical Island

Are you a Court Jester?

Chard

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 11:06 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm with japanese on this one.
I can see the point about having all your eggs in the G basket, but for many site owners, like myself, it wasn't originally like that. When we started, there were about 10 worthwhile search engines, suppose Yahoo was the biggest, and we ranked OK/good on all of them. If you dropped on one of them, it was no big deal, you were ok on the others. Now, through no choice of mine, the big G has squeezed out all the others to the point where their results are irrelevant, and I now find myself in G's hands. I didn't ask them to take over the internet. Thank the other big G, we're not totally dependant, as we do traditional advertising etc, but G has got so dominant that any downward move hits me in the wallet. I was always aware that it was a bit of a free ride, getting any free advertising from organic search, but I didn't want, or expect it to end up being down to one SE

japanese

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 11:07 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Tropical Island

Seeing that you did not reply, I see you doing cartwheels around tables where serious discussions are taking place.

Or are you an entertainer of some sort?

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 11:12 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sorry, was reading another thread.

Tropical Island
Are you a Court Jester?

:-)

flicker

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29782 posted 11:19 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

When is someone going to start a "serious algo thread" like in previous updates? The wailing and railing is even worse than usual, and it's starting to drift into the realm of insulting/bullying other users and imbalanced frothing. This can't be helping anyone.

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