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Google Update Bourbon Part 4
GoogleGuy




msg:736898
 12:02 am on Jun 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued from part 3 here: [webmasterworld.com...]


I did the rounds to check on the state of various data updates. I'd estimate that the "0.5" (not algorithmic changes, but rather responses to various spam/porn complaints + processing reinclusion requests) should go out this weekend sometime or possibly Monday. There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search, and that new binary should have the hooks to turn on the third set of data. Regarding finishing up the second piece of data, there's still two data centers with older data. Those data centers will probably be switched over by Monday. By Monday, 2.5 of the 3.5 things will probably be on.

 

Dayo_UK




msg:737258
 8:28 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Morning people.

Anyone seen any re-inclusion requests go through?

And also I guess the next thing is to guess the dc which may be the future.

[72.14.207.104...] - looks a bit different to me. I am sure it will become clearer when the days unfold.

Johan007




msg:737259
 8:38 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

All evidence points to a Google bug on the innocent sites hit. I have studied every variable and none of the reasons stand up; high amount of affiliates ads, AdSense, keyword density, dirty Class C IP range and duplicate content etc...

GoogleGuy asking us NOT to change our pages also hints that this is Google’s fault and thus I am now going to go put back all the changes I have made.

[72.14.207.104...] - looks not much deferent to me on the effected sites.

Dayo_UK




msg:737260
 8:50 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyone who went url only on both the non-www and the www of the homepage it might be worth checking out that 72... DC :) - and a few others.

At least it looks like it is possible to return from that situation (not sure if it is classed as a penalty) - so there is hope.

Johan007

Only very slight for me - I guess the one dc GG talked about might not have been turned on yet.

uksports




msg:737261
 8:59 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Googlebot is here in force today (Googlebot/2.1+) for the first time since Bourbon started which in my experience signals the end of the update - normally GBot takes 300-400 pages a day from us but has only been doing 30-40 for the last two weeks - today, the hungry blighter has taken 540 pages in about 4 hours which will be around 3000 pages by the end of the day at that rate, and that to me means the fat lady has sung, had her supper and crawled under the bedsheets

Jez123




msg:737262
 9:01 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Only very slight for me

Same for me Dayo_UK - I am not holding out much hope for some reason. I think it was after my SERPS dived a second time.

Johan007




msg:737263
 9:49 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Oh my! Google did spider today but the WRONG URL! Nothing to do with the non-www and the www issue but I have test server www.domainname.com vs www.domain-name.com (the latter being the test server! now on a simple redirect).

djgreg




msg:737264
 10:14 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

[72.14.207.104...] looks good in general. But my sites are still gone and still much spam. However backlinks are updated.

greg

Dawg




msg:737265
 10:54 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Some people were talking about spider activity:

I noticed that on my domains the last Googlebot activity has been on June 5th. Since then, no more Googlebot. Up to the 5th 2 sites got crawled completely each day, on the other one it took a few pages and on the third it took only the index page.

As I said since June 5th nothing... nada... zilch...

Anybody else experiencing this?

SERPs have not changed much but Cache-data has been revoked to May 31 even though the cache had been up-to-date. Weird if you ask me.

cat5




msg:737266
 11:20 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

This update started 3 weeks ago, isn’t time to change subject? Is becoming a bit boring. A few weeks or months or days it will be another 1-5 serials of threads about the "kentucky fried chicken or whatever" update- when the pages that disappeared in bourbon are back in the coming soon KFC..whatever update and the pages that where tops in bourbon gone fishing....What is the point? I have lost 2 sites in alegra and they are back in burbon,some of us probably know Google's games. Me, I have lost a few sites in past got them back now and some others gone fishing until next update ,that means 1=1.-.Lesson looking to the future-get as many domains as you can and keep them in your Arsenal ,you never know what brings tomorrow.Hey ..and do not forget inbound links ...

cat5




msg:737267
 11:24 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Plus i bet all of you lost your sites during burbon i bet you have been add a few thousands pages just before the update so G's Algo got's you at the wrong moment.

Clint




msg:737268
 11:47 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

3) The recent addition to the site of a large block of "thin affiliate" pages - while these pages only account for about 2% of our total pages, the number is still significant. These pages are nothing more than Title, db driven stock descriptions, address, and affiliate link. A penalty related to this might also be called the "too much too fast" penalty referenced elsewhere - too many new pages in too short a period of time.

I am starting to lean strongly towards thinking it's number 3 that has dinged us - not only resulting in poor rankings for those new pages (rightfully), but also affecting the rest of the site.


lorenzinho2, I have the same "links pages" at all 5 of my sites. My main site (really two of them) were trashed. The other 3 sites (totally unrelated and not involved in sales) were not, in fact they ROSE HIGHER in SERP's. So at least in my cases, it has nothing to do with links pages (if that's what you mean by "affiliate pages").

Hinso




msg:737269
 11:51 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Plus i bet all of you lost your sites during burbon i bet you have been add a few thousands pages just before the update so G's Algo got's you at the wrong moment.

I added precisely 4 pages to the site I had trashed in the last few weeks before the update - I was focused on another site which is (still) doing well.

Another theory bites the dust.

reseller




msg:737270
 11:52 am on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Folks!

Donīt Panic...yet ;-)

We really donīt know yet which set of serps will be the winner.

Maybe as Dayo_UK mentioned... "I am sure it will become clearer when the days unfold. "

tallguy




msg:737271
 12:01 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

While this update is happening, is it safe to add few pages to the site? Makes any difference?

Clint




msg:737272
 12:07 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

This update started 3 weeks ago, isn’t time to change subject? Is becoming a bit boring. A few weeks or months or days it will be another 1-5 serials of threads about the "kentucky fried chicken or whatever" update- when the pages that disappeared in bourbon are back in the coming soon KFC..whatever update and the pages that where tops in bourbon gone fishing....What is the point? I have lost 2 sites in alegra and they are back in burbon,some of us probably know Google's games. Me, I have lost a few sites in past got them back now and some others gone fishing until next update ,that means 1=1.-.Lesson looking to the future-get as many domains as you can and keep them in your Arsenal ,you never know what brings tomorrow.Hey ..and do not forget inbound links ...

The "POINT" is to get back our G SERP's! If you got your sites back in Bourbon, then I don't understand why you are here if you are "bored" with the thread. There are thousands of us with businesses headed toward ruin DUE TO this Bourbon update. "You never know what tomorrow brings", well that's for sure.

Plus i bet all of you lost your sites during burbon i bet you have been add a few thousands pages just before the update so G's Algo got's you at the wrong moment.

No. I for one added nothing.

[edited by: Clint at 12:13 pm (utc) on June 7, 2005]

Clint




msg:737273
 12:09 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Folks!
Donīt Panic...yet ;-)

We really donīt know yet which set of serps will be the winner.


I think "panic" is my only option since I'm GONE in ALL of the DC's! :(

Clint




msg:737274
 12:11 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't if this means anything but I just checked my access logs which show the last 300 "visits" (in cPanel) and I only show two hits from the G-bot and those are just accessing two images!
crawl-66-249-64-43.googlebot.com
crawl-66-249-64-5.googlebot.com
Neither of those IP's resolve to a webpage. Both of those "hits" show a http code of "301" which is apparently due to them accessing the images without the www prefix.

union_jack




msg:737275
 12:17 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

maybe its time to start worring if all your sites are missing on all servers.

You may find it intresting to note that i had six sites all very different in design and style, some with more content than others all related to travel (can i say that), some ranking very well (1st for massive keywords), some sites worked on more often than others, some with a lot of new pages others with none. All on different IP address and hosting companies, all sites more than 5 years old and finally and most importantly all affiliates.

I have seen my income go from one that allowed be to keep my family fairly well to a situation were a have no income what so ever. My sites have gone they have either disappered or dropped down the rankings to a situation were they can not be found.

I asked google guy on his question and answer forum if this was a penatly on affilaites and to be fair he replied very promptly. I have posted his remarks below.

"union_jack, I think the value you give to users is often proportional to the value add of your site: unique content, a unique service (e.g. comparisons of different cell phone or web hosting plans), or even a unique perspective. Too often though, affiliate sites don't add much value to users.
It's fine for someone to say "the user wanted to book a hotel room, and I let him do that." But if 50 other sites are trying to do the same thing, and those 50 sites end up crowding out good results like the hotel's real home page with an actual phone number, then those 50 affiliate sites are clearly hurting diversity, esp. if all the sites are cookie-cutter/templates or nothing but repackaged feeds.

So my answer would be to think hard about your value-add compared to other affiliate sites in whatever niche you're targeting."
-------------------------------------------------------
I found it intresting that he used travel as an example as i have never given any indication that the travel indusury was my field of work. I would also have to say that on all 6 sites i have added content relevant to the site, the content has been researched and written by myself over an 18 month period, so it is unique and relevant, this however has not stopped google wiping me out.

I am not bitter, i still belive i can get by but it does really beg the question are affiliates finshed and if so who replaces them - Big multi national comapanies that more and more have a monopoly on everything we see and do. Is that good for Google and the internet in general.

reseller




msg:737276
 12:25 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint

>"You never know what tomorrow brings", well that's for sure.<

And allow me to add; No site is BULLETPROOF when it comes to Google updates!

Dayo_UK




msg:737277
 12:26 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Union Jack

I feel for you as I am in a similar situation. I initally thought that the last few updates was an attack on affiliates - I no longer think that way. Especially as some of my sites which had no affiliate content started to suffer.

the question are affiliates finshed and if so who replaces them - Big multi national comapanies that more and more have a monopoly on everything we see and do. Is that good for Google and the internet in general.

Problem is that it is the big multi national companies that run the biggest affiliate network and sometimes it is the moms and pops that get pushed out.

But I suppose it all comes down to unique content.

Hope things improve.

Cheers

Dayo

[edited by: Dayo_UK at 12:29 pm (utc) on June 7, 2005]

Clint




msg:737278
 12:29 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

My "SITE" shows up, but only in search for the biz name. It's been totally trashed for all of the keywords and phrases where I was FIRST.

I'm in your same position as per your comment of "I have seen my income go from one that allowed be to keep my family fairly well to a situation were a have no income what so ever. My sites have gone they have either disappeared or dropped down the rankings to a situation were they cannot be found. What I can't understand is how you are not bitter. I am FAR BEYOND BITTER. I'm watching what I've busted my a$$ over for years, go down in RUIN. I've had ONE @#!%# sale since May 21st. ONE.

Jez123




msg:737279
 12:33 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

union_jack, I find this interesting as some sites are quite happy to be crowded out by many other affiliate sites advertising their wares or services. After all, who would you rather have outranking you, a competitor or someone trying to sell your goods for you.

So who should be penalised? You, as the innocent party or the site advertising for affiliates? :-) Lol, though that's probably oversimplifying the case!

johnhh




msg:737280
 12:36 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Interesting comment "those 50 sites end up crowding out good results like the hotel's real home page with an actual phone number, then those 50 affiliate sites are clearly hurting diversity, esp. if all the sites are cookie-cutter/templates or nothing but repackaged feeds."

However it appears the current SERPS don't seem to show this opinion.

reseller




msg:737281
 12:36 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

union_jack

>I am not bitter, i still belive i can get by but it does really beg the question are affiliates finshed and if so who replaces them - Big multi national comapanies that more and more have a monopoly on everything we see and do. Is that good for Google and the internet in general.<

No..No...No.. Affiliates are not finished, only those who havenīt learnt yet how to PRE-SELL and do serious marketing for their PRE-SELL pages.

Affiliate program marketing is a legit business model which requires knowledge and hard work, as like any other business.

In respect for the TOS, Iīm not gonna give examples of successful affiliates, but those of you who are involved in affiliate program marketing know several examples for sure.

Furthermore, there is no indications that Google penalize PRE-SELL pages which add values and benefit the searchers. GoogleGuy mentioned something to that effect too.

Clint




msg:737282
 12:38 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

I see some are still asking about the domain renewal length issue. I'll say it again that I will send the URL to whomever sends me a SM. I sent it to a few of you yesterday, but I didn't get any comments back on what you thought about it.

[edited by: ciml at 12:43 pm (utc) on June 7, 2005]
[edit reason] No specifics please. [/edit]

Dayo_UK




msg:737283
 12:41 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sorry Clint for not replying by sticky.

I understand Google view that it might indicate a throw away domain - but cant see that having a massive impact on sites (might flag something) - certainly cant see how that could result in the reduction in ranking that you have experienced.

nemo2




msg:737284
 12:48 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Big multi national companies that more and more have a monopoly on everything we see and do. Is that good for Google and the internet in general. "
if that is the problem next year the google index will have only 10 PAGES INDEXED. Why all this war against the small publishers that try to earn a decent living from the web ,I can understand and vote for a total ban of sex and gambling sites industry that have the Lion portion in the internet revenues and plus they promote criminality and social abuse indirectly,but why Google wants to kill the mom and pop publishers ,especially in our days of financial insecurity and unemployedment in our
"great western world".After all the big brothers have nothing to win if there is no a consumption society out there due the lack of money,(ie who is gone to book a hotel on line or a holiday if he does not have money for fish and chips).

fearlessrick




msg:737285
 12:49 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sorry, had to comment on this:

It has come to my mind that it maybe not a so good idea to add tons of content to your site at once.

That's just plain wrong. It goes against everything the web is about - instant information, ability to add data quickly and efficiently.

Clint




msg:737286
 12:56 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sorry, had to comment on this:
It has come to my mind that it maybe not a so good idea to add tons of content to your site at once.

That's just plain wrong. It goes against everything the web is about - instant information, ability to add data quickly and efficiently.


I think most will agree, I certainly do. But look at what G is doing--it would not surprise me if this was indeed true. What they have done so far makes no sense, so, in keeping with that trend......

union_jack




msg:737287
 12:58 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint, i know we have things bad but there are many terribble things happing every second in the world, google wiping our sites as bad but not in comparrison to others. Dont be bitter you doing the right thing researching on here and i am positive youll bounce back.

In reply to the marketing of sites (Reseller) i am glad your doing okay, however my experience has been that all my pages have gone of my sites included pages that were in the main information only.

I read in to what google guy says to mean that affiliates will go unless we each come up with a novel approach to our sites.

I do agree that results are poor and certainly not an improvement and yes i would say that if if was doing really well.

Good Luck Guys

fearlessrick




msg:737288
 1:05 pm on Jun 7, 2005 (gmt 0)


[72.14.207.104...] looks good in general. But my sites are still gone and still much spam. However backlinks are updated.

Yeah, that's just fine. For my four word phrase, all four words appearing in the title and body of a key page on my site, a very unique string, I've gone from 72 to 86 to 94 to now 113. Very encouraging. My page rates #1 and #2 on Yahoo and MSN for the same search.

Let's face facts, people. Google is broken, they've nearly admitted to using HUMANS (OMG!) to fix or tweak the broken algo, GG already said that spam reports and reinclusion requests were being handled through Monday (done by humans), and they're not really going to tell us that their system is warped, now are they?

Don't you think an admission of guilt on their part would cause a 40% drop in the share price of their stock? And don't you think that they are now ruled by the desire of shareholders (they have a fiduciary reponsibility to them which supercedes all moral and ethical precepts) to increase the value of the stock?

Sorry to say, but anyone who thinks that Google is anything but a broken company with many, many problems which they refuse to discuss, is simply living in a rose-colored world.

And if the mods think this post is off-topic, let me remind them that I am talking here about the Bourbon update and its implications.

It's time to forego results from Google and look elsewhere toward a more stable, transparent and functioning platform.

OUT.

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