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The myth of the shared server and Google.
Is paying for a unique IP worth it?
silverbytes




msg:724271
 7:09 pm on Jun 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Best hosting companies offers multidomain in your hosting account on shared servers.

Means you can pay some GB and set up some 4 to 6 domains.
That, many people say is bad to google, it seems is there a benefit about having unique ip for each site.

If that is true most of sites on cheap hostings should rank awfully. since they host your sites and others on same IP (correct me if I'm wrong) but I see many of these ranking ok.

Google knows about your domain and who registered so what could you hide getting different ip?

Can someone really tell if is there any reason to avoid shared servers in relation to don't spoil good google serp?

 

cabbie




msg:724301
 12:36 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't feel google needs to check whois, host, or ip to find interconnected sites.Their link mapping is far more efficient to detect nests.
So you can have all the diff subnet Ips, unique dns you want.If you cross the threshold of interlinking, you will be found out.If not straight away before too long.
Now if you had 2 sites competing for the same keywords sharing the same IP but each having unique content and backlinks, then no reason why they can't share the google serps together.

2by4




msg:724302
 5:06 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have to admit, I have never understood why cheapo hosting is used by people who work with the web, and how such questions even come up, like dedicated or not ip for site. I'd never consider putting any client's site on anything that doesn't have quality hosting, that includes dedicated ips, very high uptime, etc. I do understand why people creating huge automated spam farms want this, but for real websites? Why? To save a few dollars a month?

Whenever I see this question I scratch my head and wonder why even bother working with the web if you can't even spend the few dollars it takes to create a solid foundation for your websites. While it may not matter, as some point out, it may matter, and it simply is too easy and too cheap to use good hosting to even bother trying to skimp in this area. Time after time I see people on forums like this posting on the latest hoster and their problems, servers failed, googlebot blocked, whatever, and I always laugh, I made the choice to use quality years ago, after trying the alternatives, and my headaches ended years ago [except when I have to work with new client's pre-existing hosting, which almost always provides those headaches I would otherwise never have, until I get them onto real hosting, then those headaches magically vanish], no surprises, no google update where dedicated ip suddenly does matter, nothing to think about. Or save those few dollars and keep cheapo hosting companies in business, and provide some good material for these forums in the future when something or other goes wrong, if I catch that thread I'll smile to myself again, like I always do...

Rodney




msg:724303
 5:14 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

quality hosting doesn't necessarily equal dedicated IP address and dedicated IP address doesn't necessarily equal quality hosting.

I've been running websites for almost 10 years, both with and without dedicated IP addresses (yes, on "quality" webhosts and on my own dedicated servers) and I have seen ZERO evidence that shows that an IP address has ANY effect on search engine rankings.

Lots of "ifs" or "maybes", but zero evidence and years of no problems in the serps for both types of hosting.

Ip addresses are limited and not every person signing up for hosting even knows what a dedicated IP address is, it doesn't make any sense that it would be some type of factor in ranking.

But if it makes you feel better to spend extra money on something that's not needed, then more power to you.

Natashka




msg:724304
 6:30 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Whenever I see this question I scratch my head and wonder why even bother working with the web if you can't even spend the few dollars it takes to create a solid foundation for your websites.

probably because this forum is visited not only by professional webmasters who make living from the web. It is also visited by ppl who make site(s) in their leasure time, webmasters of non-profit sites and others who just want to learn couple things and improve their sites and position in SE. Cheap hostings are for folks who never expect to earn big $$, it's more like a hobby to them, and if in addition they can make couple bucks with AdSense and pay for that cheap hosting - great!

I don't see anything wrong with that and I don't think you should laugh at them, they may be just as good specialists in their main field as you are on the Internet. How knows, maybe one day you'll come to their office asking for their professional advice on smth you have no idea about - they will not laugh at you, right?

jaffstar




msg:724305
 7:16 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Personally, I like dedicated IP's on multiple hosts.

2by4




msg:724306
 8:13 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

"But if it makes you feel better to spend extra money on something that's not needed, then more power to you."

who said anything about spending extra money? I spend the money to get uptime, real high end hardware, reduntant data trunk providers etc, there's no skimping, the real ip addresses are just part of the package of high end hosting, which costs pretty much the same in real terms as any other hosting, real terms meaning I don't consider 5-10 a month more to be a meaningful number.

Virtual name hosting to me is a dead giveaway that the hoster is also skimping in other areas, sure there's a limited number of ips out there, but that doesn't mean you have to be one of the people who is restricted by that limitation, if your hoster tells you that, well...

That's what I meant when I said I don't understand why people pay to get less when they can get more for about the same, at least if you aren't worrying about a few dollars a month.

But still people persist in going lowend, which is actually great, otherwise the good hosters would get swamped with junk.

Re laughing, I'm not laughing at users of cheap hosting, I'm laughing at people who aren't amateurs but who still try to save those few dollars a month, then post later about being shafted by their hosters. Re your example, if I try to save some money on plumbing and then the job is messed up, the real plumber is going to laugh, at least to himself, when I call him to fix it. And I'm laughing to myself, not at them. I just read the threads and take mental note to not get tempted by deals that are too good to be true.

The advice to get quality hosting is the same whether you're an amateur or pro, it doesn't matter, use good tools and get good results, it's pretty basic. Use bad tools and don't be surprised when the results aren't good. And really, how many 'amateurs' in the true sense do you think are reading the google forums on WebmasterWorld...? When I started out, I didn't know this, and it cost me hundreds of hours of lost time dealing with various hosting problems. People starting out can skip that step, or not, I wish I had, it set my programming back about 1 year.

This last is to any actual amateur reading this: make a good foundation and you'll never regret it.

thecityofgold2005




msg:724307
 8:27 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you are a small business then it makes much better business sense to pay 25 per year for hosting with a shared IP than many times that for a dedicated IP, trunk a bunk, and whatever.

Most businesses on the web are not created and run by techno geeks but by people who simply want their, perhaps existing, business to have an internet presence.

ruserious




msg:724308
 9:24 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

We are running a hobby site, on a shared server with a quality hoster. Been doing that for 3 years. We are all over the SERPs, never had a problem with Google. Getting an IP would mean getting a dedicated server which would raise our costs by a factor of about 10. We are not in it to make a buck - the little money that flows from the (very selected) placement of ads flows right back into the site. The site has three very distinct areas that reside on different subdomains, and there are even searches where two of our subdomains will be on the first page of the SERPs (which is OK, since the content and the targetaudience of the two is very different).

Sure if you can get your own IP for no extra cost, go for it it, why shouldn't you. But if are paying extra for it, or if you are doing it only for Google then I'd say you're following a myth.

glengara




msg:724309
 9:44 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

*I'd say you're following a myth.*

I remember much the same arguments used in the absolute/relative link question ;-)

ruserious




msg:724310
 11:25 am on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

> *I'd say you're following a myth.*
>
> I remember much the same arguments used in the
> absolute/relative link question ;-)

What you quote is not an argument, but my personal conclusion (under certain circumstances you left out) based on the numbers from my exprience. What is the relevance of a totally unrelated topic to this? None. But thanks for trying. ;)

glengara




msg:724311
 12:45 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Must have been before your time, but lots of the same arguments in this thread were applied to the absolute/relative link question, with many stating any benefits to absolutes was a myth.

Do you get the relevance yet? ;-)

ruserious




msg:724312
 1:09 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

> Do you get the relevance yet? ;-)

Yep, as soon as someone states that something is a myth, that is a strong indicator that the opposite is the case and it is actually true. Brilliant reasoning. I can't compete with that. :)

silverbytes




msg:724313
 4:54 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Get a dedicated IP. Your competition is doing it. So should you.

Many people in the world take drugs and I don't see that's a good reason to me in order to follow them.
If my competition uses dedicated IP just in case, and they don't get better ranks I really don't care about their strategy.

I think they do because they assume is better, not because they know it is. In fact seems like there's no big support behind the idea of dedicated IP is better...

Rodney




msg:724314
 6:12 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

who said anything about spending extra money?

You did in the post I was replying to.

but for real websites? Why? To save a few dollars a month?

and

why even bother working with the web if you can't even spend the few dollars it takes to create a solid foundation for your websites.

and

As others mentioned, $1 a month is what most higher end shared hosters who provide dedicated ips seem to charge for extra dedicated ips, if that's an issue you are probably, as noted, in the wrong business.

sure there's a limited number of ips out there, but that doesn't mean you have to be one of the people who is restricted by that limitation

You say "limitation", but I have yet to see any proof of any limitation by using a shared IP address in regards to SERPS in almost 10 years of using both dedicated and shared IP addresses. In fact, just the opposite. I have seen sites on shared IPs outrank sites with dedicated IP addresses on numerous occassions.

Just for the record, I totally agree that people shouldn't skimp on hosting. You don't want your website in the hands of the "cheapest" alternative.

I just don't agree that shared IP hosting always equates to "cheap". I also don't see any SERP benefit to a dedicated IP address.

There may be other benefits like being able to install an SSL cert or being about to test your site by typing in the IP address, but those have nothing to do with SERPs, which was what the original question was about.

phpmaven




msg:724315
 11:15 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

For me the bottom line is this: If there is even the slightest possibility that my site could be associated with a porn or gambling site or any other site that might be penalized on the same IP as me and I might be affected, why would I take a chance to save a few dollars?

We all pay tons of money every month for insurance for our cars, health, home etc... Most of the time we never use it, but we pay it anyway "just in case". To me this is the same principle.

Natashka




msg:724316
 11:29 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Get a dedicated IP. Your competition is doing it. So should you.

Yes, *some* of my competition is doing it. With no luck. So why should I?

I have one so-called "competitor" who comes up with a new "directory" every month. What he is basically doing, he is taking all my widgets and creates a page for each and every one, consisting of: widget in title, in <h1> tags, then goes affiliate junk like "widget" at amazon, "widget" at ebay, etc.. and that's all. Each "directory" is on a separate IP and even on dedictated server. No only those are on separate IPs, but on the servers that are located in different parts of the world, and with different bogus whois. But I know its him, as his long rabbit "ears" are portruding through everything he does on the net.

But in spite of all his struggling, all his "directories" still cannot outrank my site on a shared IP, for 2 years now.

Natashka




msg:724317
 11:43 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

phpmaven, I agree with you, but there are shared hosts that don't allow those kind of sites, EXACTLY for that reason, besides they don't need problems and extra work, as those sites are usually targets of hack attacks.

BTW, that's EXACTLY the reason why I don't have any insurances whatsoever, other than those required by law. I prefer to save money in the bank, then if something happen, I know my money will go on MY needs, and not on Joe Doe's needs.

And one more thing: don't forget that this forum is not only for ppl from US, Canada, UK and other countries where $10 is not a lot of money. There are also webmasters from other parts of the world, where 10 bucks can make a big difference.

BillyS




msg:724318
 11:54 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

BTW, that's EXACTLY the reason why I don't have any insurances whatsoever, other than those required by law. I prefer to save money in the bank, then if something happen, I know my money will go on MY needs, and not on Joe Doe's needs.

I was working in my backyard two years ago when an enormous oak tree split and half and came crashing down on my home and car (it was my neighbor's tree). All together this tree did over $60,000 in damages to my home and the other half (it was one of those forked trees) did over $40,000 in damages my neighbors.

It would take me roughly 80 years of insurance payments to cover the damages.

Sorry for the off topic comment.

BigDave




msg:724319
 12:20 am on Jun 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

For the life of me, I cannot see the need to get a dedicated IP address unless I'm going to be running some services that do not support virtual domains. If I get to that point, I get a dedicated server because I want complete control.

nuthin




msg:724320
 1:19 am on Jun 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

we host quite a few sites on the same IP and alot of our clients overlap each other in the same industry.
for instance on some terms we dominate the entire first page with our clients in that particular industry.

never had a problem.
we don't inter-link sites and provide a tailored strategy for each client.

all seems to work well.

i would be cautious if you employ alot of inter-linking between your sites that are hosted on the same IP and if you use the same sort of site structure / content on sites, you would likely get bitten if this is the case.

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