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This 789 message thread spans 27 pages: < < 789 ( 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ... 27 > >     
Google Update Bourbon Part 3
Sweet Cognac




msg:711613
 8:35 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued From:

[webmasterworld.com...]



My whole site has a new cache date of May 25th. Maybe once these other sites around me get recached, I won't hold such an honorable top position. But at least Google has found my pages worthy to sit in the Search again.:) It seems strange to look at the stats and see Google in there, after 6 months of just seeing Yahoo and MSN referrals.

My website has plenty of outbound links, but they are on relevant pages. The problem my site has always had, was a lack of "inbound links." I got tired of searching for people to link to me (with all the spammy sites around) and gave up. So my pages have acquired some links naturally I guess(and I'll bet I still don't have more than 30 inbound links for the whole site) Still have a PR4, which I've had since it disappeared in Nov.

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 8:54 pm (utc) on May 27, 2005]

 

kevinpate




msg:711763
 12:57 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Re: why Bourbon?

Brett (forum owner iffin ya dinna know) and/or his merry band of mods give names to the major Google updates. This time it's Bourbon, a somewhat apt choice in that
the Webmasterworld Search Conference and PubCon is coming up in just a few weeks and it is set in the Big Easy
aka Nawlins aka home to the French Quarter and that rather interesting, albeit extremely touristy, lil' chunk of paradise known as Bourbon Street.

To all who've crashed, sorry the parade is rained on
To all who've gained, make hay while the sun still shines
To all who dinna know there was an update until seeing the mega threads here, nice job.

Absolut




msg:711764
 1:16 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

And thus, Google shows the world how insecure and patchwork their very core is.

Clint




msg:711765
 1:23 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Re: why Bourbon?

Thanks Kevin.

reseller




msg:711766
 1:25 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Essex_boy

>The Rotating Algos - This is a belief I have utmost faith in.<

Do you have a better explanation than "The Rotating Algos" to the everchanging positions of fellow members websites on the serps?

Why do sites disappear then to surface again on the top of the serps in such short time.

Why fellow members see different serps in different days?

Why DCs keep showing different serps?

And most important; why don´t we hear the fat lady singing after more than a week from the start of Bourbon ;-)

Thanks!

reseller




msg:711767
 2:22 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I see NEW SERPS on Google.com right now!

My google.com is on

66.249.85.104

And Dayo_UK ... somebody is happy again "until further" ;-)

Clint




msg:711768
 2:54 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I see NEW SERPS on Google.com right now!
My google.com is on

66.249.85.104


Well, using that URL I'm at least on the first page now for my biz name search (LAST). But, the jerks have knocked me so far back for a search phrase I've been monitoring that I can't even find my @#$!% site now!

Using google.com in MY area (which is 64.233.161.147), for the phrase, I was (from 1st on 1st page on Fri. the 20th) to way down on the 4th page. Using the IP you gave of [66.249.85.104...] , I'm no where to be found! <sarc>GREAT JOB GOOGLE.</sarc> So where abouts are you located? Hopefully that's a Google IP far outside my region!

reseller




msg:711769
 3:04 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint

>So where abouts are you located? Hopefully that's a Google IP far outside my region!<

Denmark!

rich42




msg:711770
 3:11 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

this might not sound like news - but I'm seeing 0% change in serps over the last 24 hours.

across about 100 different terms - nothing has moved even one position. never seen this before - something always moves a little.

think between this and the pagerank being offline - something big might be up...

Dayo_UK




msg:711771
 3:18 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

reseller

Hope it holds for you - but dont get to excited about one dc :) - unless it is way out of line with the others. - you want to look out for trends.

You probably also want to ignore what comes up on Google.com for your location (to a degree) after all you are just hitting a datacenter - someone a short way away/like a different pc in the same room could be hitting a different dc.

rich42

I agree - there is not much movement at the moment (a little but not a lot)

reseller




msg:711772
 3:25 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Dayo_UK

>reseller

Hope it holds for you - but dont get to excited about one dc :) - unless it is way out of line with the others. - you want to look out for trends.<

Excited? give me back first my 75% Google´s referrals that I lost in allegra. Then I shall be very excited ;-)

I see the serps of 66.249.85.104 propogating over to most of the other DCs.

How about google uk serps. Any change?

RichTC




msg:711773
 3:33 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

66.249.85.104

same as what we currently have in the uk - no change

They just need to remove what they applied after midnight Friday and the problem is resolved!

Dayo_UK




msg:711774
 3:36 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Reseller.

True - the result you are looking at does seem to be moving accross dcs.

I dont think it is necessarily the dcs algo that is moving. Just that result? Site? result set? If so then good for you :)

reseller




msg:711775
 3:40 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

RichTC

>66.249.85.104

same as what we currently have in the uk - no change<

What do you see on the other DCs, when you run the same keyword/keyphrase? Do most of the DCs look like your present google uk or 66.249.85.104?

reseller




msg:711776
 3:46 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Dayo_UK

>Reseller.

True - the result you are looking at does seem to be moving accross dcs.

I dont think it is necessarily the dcs algo that is moving. Just that result? Site? result set? If so then good for you :)<

Thanks. Still too early to draw any conclusion.

BTW, do you have the phone number of the fat lady handy ;-)

HostingDirectory




msg:711777
 3:55 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I tried to create a thread on this but it would not let me...

So...

We all know a lot of sites have been dropped from Google but we don't know why. Perhaps this update has a long way to go, perhaps it has not. If it is finished we need to find out why we got dropped from the index.
I have assembled a check list that i feel covers all the angles. If sites dropped could fill in the checklist we might see a pattern occur. Then we can work out what we might need to change to get back in.
My checklist is below, some of the points are explained why it might be a factor.

1) Site size
It is reasonable to believe that a homepage that size is too large, will have too many people click away so may loose relevancy to show in the top results.
2) Outbound links
How many do you have on your homepage?
3) Inbound links
How many does your site have?
4) Adsense
Since it may connect innocent sites with scraper sites.. do you use it?
5) Content updated regular?
Some sites do not have content updated too much because they offer tools over info, but Google may consider sites with rare content updates to be poor quality and drop positions for them.
6) Adwords
Do you use paid advertising like adwords, maybe loosing some places will make you pay more or perhaps Google protects their paying clients?
7) Age of site?
How old is your site, perhaps older sites are likely to be better because they survived... so Google keeps them listed high?
8) Use of no follow tags on forums?
If you offer forums or blogs, do you use the no follow tag? Maybe we need to stop bad sites linking inside our sites?
9) Location of host sever
Maybe our host location plays a part in how high we rank to certain users?
10) Dedicated or shared hosts?
Are we being punished for what other sites do in a shared hosting enviroment?
11) Redirects?
Do you use any kind of redirects that Google may be having trouble with?
12) Scrapper sites linking to you / content theft?
Do you have lots of scrapper sites suddently linking to you or using parts of your content.
13) Are you listed in dmoz?
Perhaps Google pays more respect to dmoz listed sites?
14) Listed in Yahoo directory?
Perhaps Google doesnt want Yahoo directory pages to be listed high or maybe it does prefer them linking high?
15) RSS feeds on site?
Using rss feeds might be causing some kind of duplicate content penalty?
16) Pagerank ( before it dissapeared )
What was your pagerank.. maybe a high pagerank gets immune to any penalisations?
17) Extra domains pointing to main domain?
Do you have other domains pointing to your main domain that might be causing problems in Googles eyes?
18) Search engine friendly archives producing same content on different urls inside site?
Some forums like vbulletin have a search engine archive that produces the same content with a static html url.. maybe this might be picked up as duplicate content?
19) Did you bother taking LSI into consideration with onpage content?
Basically it seems Goolge is now using Latent Semantic Indexing in search results - so a search for zoo trips may look at page content and realise that zoo , wildlife and trips are related. So search results could give you wildlife trips for the term zoo trips.

It's a long list but if we all fill it in, we could then put the results in excel and compare them.. maybe see a pattern that all sites dropped might have. Then we can test that pattern aganst sites will did not get dropped.

Might be useful.

Clint




msg:711778
 3:59 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint
>So where abouts are you located? Hopefully that's a Google IP far outside my region!<

Denmark!


Well hello to Denmark. :) Well then I guess that's good, I'm in USA.

Clint




msg:711779
 4:03 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

this might not sound like news - but I'm seeing 0% change in serps over the last 24 hours.
across about 100 different terms - nothing has moved even one position. never seen this before - something always moves a little.

think between this and the pagerank being offline - something big might be up...


FWIW, I've been seeing changes in search results today. (Using Google.com in USA).

reseller




msg:711780
 4:11 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint

>Well hello to Denmark. :) Well then I guess that's good, I'm in USA.<

Thanks. Then you are going there, of course. Word on the street say that Brett shall give a "Bourbon" free of charge to all those who contribute to this thread and attend the conference ;-)

[webmasterworld.com...]

spaceylacie




msg:711781
 4:56 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

HostingDirectory, thanks for the post. I'm going to meet the Google Guys in New Orleans and I'm writing down questions for them, your list helps a lot, I printed it.

I've seen small changes in serps with my sites, yesterday and today, since the main Bourbon update. Some of my main keywords have dropped from #1 to #2. My most sought after is still #1 though. I'm still wondering how, in New Orleans, they(main conference) will be able to tell me how to increase my rankings. I want to interrogate the Google Guys, they seem to be the ones determining my serps.

Brett, please, no Bourbon for me, dark liquor makes me crazy.

Critter




msg:711782
 5:25 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Two bourbons for Lacie!

MikeNoLastName




msg:711783
 5:33 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ya know... I was just thinking...
We were dumped on this update. When we search for the exact first sentence of our home page in quotes, we get: Your search - "..." - did not match any documents. and no results come up. Whereas if we search for the exact title of our site in quotes we do come up around 10-12 AFTER a bunch of sites LINKING us. Is it conceivable and consistent with others findings that G lost a bunch of the full-page text data (or at least is broken and lost the ability to search on it) and is only searching on Title and anchor content at this point with the later taking precedence? Just a wild conjecture...
Think about it, test it out and let me know what you all think.

Sweet Cognac




msg:711784
 6:15 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

When I search for the exact first sentence on my site in quotes, it is the only website that comes up. But, it has a new cache date of May 27.

So for the last 3 days I've seen new cache dates of May 25, May 26, and now May 27. Interesting.

Sorry, if this is not helpful information

Will Spencer




msg:711785
 6:20 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

1) Site size

About 440 pages.

2) Outbound links

Very close to zero outbound links on the entire site.

3) Inbound links

Google says 152 to the main page.

Yahoo says 2,250.

Lots and lots of deep links.

4) Adsense

Yes. Before the update, I was making great money with AdSense.

5) Content updated regular?

Yes.

6) Adwords

No.

And... it seems to me that a lot of sites which got hammered by Bourbon were content sites which only provide information and do not sell anything.

7) Age of site?

A little over one year, at this domain name.

8) Use of no follow tags on forums?

My site had no forum.

9) Location of host sever

Fort Collins, Colorado.

10) Dedicated or shared hosts?

It's my own FreeBSD box, but I run about 20 domains on it.

11) Redirects?

Multiple site redesigns have left me with a large .htaccess file.

12) Scrapper sites linking to you / content theft?

My site targets keywords so uncompetitive that scrape sites do not find it worth their time to target me.

13) Are you listed in dmoz?

No. Been sitting in the queue there for over a year.

Waiting more than two years on some of my other sites.

14) Listed in Yahoo directory?

Nope.

15) RSS feeds on site?

Nope.

16) Pagerank ( before it dissapeared )

Site was PR6.

17) Extra domains pointing to main domain?

Old domain is 301'd to the new domain.

18) Search engine friendly archives producing same content on different urls inside site?

Nope.

19) Did you bother taking LSI into consideration with onpage content?

Nope.

Clint




msg:711786
 6:25 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

****Ya know... I was just thinking...
We were dumped on this update. When we search for the exact first sentence of our home page in quotes, we get: Your search - "..." - did not match any documents. and no results come up. Whereas if we search for the exact title of our site in quotes we do come up around 10-12 AFTER a bunch of sites LINKING us. Is it conceivable and consistent with others findings that G lost a bunch of the full-page text data (or at least is broken and lost the ability to search on it) and is only searching on Title and anchor content at this point with the later taking precedence? Just a wild conjecture...
Think about it, test it out and let me know what you all think.***
-------------------

If I search for my biz name (two words, and the only name in existence), in quotes: My site does show now on the first page, but LAST, and only after (in this order): 1. A bogus false incorrect hit; 2. Some sites linking to me withOUT my permission; 3. Some sites linking to me WITH my permission; 4. A LYCOS search page IN ITALY; 5. One of my OTHER field-RELATED websites which link to my main site; 5. One of my FORWARDED DOMAINS that point to my main site (which were NEVER submitted!) All rather SENSELESS considering my main site SHOULD BE FIRST, as it has been for years....until last weekend.

Without quotes it's pretty much the same thing, mostly sites linking to me (link exchange pages), but worse, I don't show until the 3rd page. Personally I do think it's great link exchange pages are showing up, HOWEVER, not before my own damn website!

If I take a line of text from my index/homepage and put that in quotes, I'm 1st but there are only TWO TOTAL hits. The other hit is a site linked to me in the UK. There should be a lot more than that (and there WERE) since some of those linked to me use this same text.

If I take a line from my <title> tag and paste it in Google in quotes, I'm the SECOND hit of only TWO HITS. First is another "link farm" type directory page (ipexpress.co.uk) which I NEVER KNEW ABOUT, that copied my title tag. Again, my last sentence in the above paragraph should hold true for this as well.

Franky I couldn't care less about my biz name, since it's just it's name.com, nor a specific line of my-site-only text, since who searches for that? What has me having a nervous breakdown is all the hundreds of previously 1st place search phrase for which I WAS found, have GONE, and in my place are bogus hits, link farms, shopping directory pages WITH GOOGLE ADS, spamming sites, sites with hidden text, etc., etc., and a whole S***LOAD of sites in INDIA! (Now I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact my hosts are from India? Hmmmmm. They are not located in India, (at least their hosting service is not), but that's where they are from. FAIK they could be in India themselves and answer email from there, and their servers are just in the US. I've been wondering about this a lot lately.....wondering if they had anything to do with me being trashed and replaced by non-relevant sites in India?)

Clint




msg:711787
 6:27 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

When I search for the exact first sentence on my site in quotes, it is the only website that comes up. But, it has a new cache date of May 27.
So for the last 3 days I've seen new cache dates of May 25, May 26, and now May 27. Interesting.

Sorry, if this is not helpful information


In my message #174 I just posted, the hits I mentioned there were I was found don't even show a cached date!

MikeNoLastName




msg:711788
 6:30 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think I JUST found my problem! I've been 302 hijacked! some @#$@#$ from .cz with an e-mail at google.cz!

I kept searching for the first line of my website as indexed, but it looks like they index my description metatag and NOT the page content. So when I searched for the first line as shown on the G description (which is an older version of the first line or two of my home page text and a word or two different), it found nothing, because apparently G doesn't search the description metatags...
Anyway, when I finally copied the line directly from my HOME page, I get two autogenerated redirect pages from this #$@#$ site followed by my own.

Heads WILL ROLL! Grrrr!

HostingDirectory




msg:711789
 6:33 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Will Spencer, Clint please use [webmasterworld.com...] to answer the check list as webmaster world has now approved my checklist thread.

Also please note:

When refering to the site size.. i mean the amount of k on the homepage. Is your site homepage larger than 100k for example.. maybe G doesnt like large homepages?

Dayo_UK




msg:711790
 6:34 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Seeing something happening on 66.102.9.104

Looks like a lot more supplementals have been dropped. - Sometimes dancing in and out on other dcs.

Hmmm. Keep on dancing. (This is the dc that I saw for 2 seconds a couple of nights ago I think too)

Clint




msg:711791
 6:35 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I see someone mentioning RSS feeds, what could that have anything to do with it? Interestingly, a day or two before this BS happened, I DID add a different RSS feed to ONE of my pages! I pasted it below if anyone thinks it matters. It's security info from WindowSecurity.com. It appears to be just for appearances. Now what I had in it's place was similar, but it was lines of ".rss-item" objects, and no .rss-"feed" as seen below.

<style type="text/css">
.rss-feed{
background-color:black;
color:white;
}
.rss-feed *{
text-align:left;
}
.rss-header *, .rss-footer *{
text-align:center;
}
.rss-header a{
color:white;
font-size:10pt;
}
.rss-item-title {
background: transparent
url('http://images.windowsecurity.com/li_new.gif') no-repeat center left;
padding-left: 20px;
font-size:12pt;
font-family:Verdana;
font-weight:bold;
}
.rss-item-title a {
color: #ff0000;
text-decoration: underline;
}
.rss-item-title a:hover {
color: #CE7208;
text-decoration:none;
}
.rss-item-description {
margin-left:20px;
font-family:Verdana;
font-size:9pt;
}
.rss-item-ext-date {
margin-left: 0px;
color: #ffffff;
font-family:Verdana;
font-size:8pt;
padding-center:0px;
}
.rss-item-ext {
padding-bottom:40px;
margin-left:20px;
}
.rss-item-ext-author {
position:absolute;
visibility:hidden;
}
</style>

Will Spencer




msg:711792
 6:36 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

We could test whether Google is punishing us for on-page optimization or some off-page factor by moving our content to new domains.

Dayo_UK




msg:711793
 6:41 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yep - was the same dc as a couple of nights ago - that did not turn into anything and I did not have a chance to have a look at the results before they disappeared.

So - it is a fair amount (not all) supplementals that have gone - dont know if this is because G has database problems/glitch (sp?) or if they are to be removed - or if it is only temp.

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