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Google Update Bourbon Part 3
Sweet Cognac




msg:711613
 8:35 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued From:

[webmasterworld.com...]



My whole site has a new cache date of May 25th. Maybe once these other sites around me get recached, I won't hold such an honorable top position. But at least Google has found my pages worthy to sit in the Search again.:) It seems strange to look at the stats and see Google in there, after 6 months of just seeing Yahoo and MSN referrals.

My website has plenty of outbound links, but they are on relevant pages. The problem my site has always had, was a lack of "inbound links." I got tired of searching for people to link to me (with all the spammy sites around) and gave up. So my pages have acquired some links naturally I guess(and I'll bet I still don't have more than 30 inbound links for the whole site) Still have a PR4, which I've had since it disappeared in Nov.

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 8:54 pm (utc) on May 27, 2005]

 

Clint




msg:711703
 6:14 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

On the subject of page rank down, cache pages down. How are Google partners doing - trying to search on AOL at the moment and not getting much success.
Off to check Netscape etc.

Seems to be better now. Prob just temp.


Their cached pages are working for me now (if you mean when you click "cached" for a page in any search results).

Clint




msg:711704
 6:19 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

******Has anybody got a site that was devalued in Bourbon that does not display Adsense?******

I hate to sound stupid, but I don't really know what is meant by this "Bourbon" here. I was trashed as of last late Friday night (20th)/early Saturday A.M,(21st) and I don't run AdWords or AdSense.

Beachboy




msg:711705
 6:37 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google is so broken it's making Yahoo look good, and Yahoo is only adequate, it's not a steller search engine. It's really quite sad. I wonder how long it will take the average search user to realize Google SERPs aren't as good as they used to be.

curlykarl




msg:711706
 6:55 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google is so broken

Working fine for me in the u.k, except for the greyed out toolbar.

I wonder how long it will take the average search user to realize Google SERPs aren't as good as they used to be

I've just spent the last half hour or so researching on a new boiler, the resulte were excellent and relevent. No complaints here.

Karl

DerekH




msg:711707
 7:02 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

hear hear Karl
I may gripe when my site goes from a solid number one to a two despite my best efforts to beat my opponent. But it's still the search engine of choice when I'm looking for something not connected with my sites (ie as an ordinary user).

It may well be that ones own site doesn't rank the way one would hope, but I have no problem searching for quite a variety of varying terms and always finding what I want in the first page of results.
Not broken as an end-user. Still faster and cleaner than its competitors.

it's just that I can't quite optimise my sites so well for it. And isn't that what they want? <grin>
DerekH

Wibfision




msg:711708
 7:50 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi Clint,

Bourbon is the name given to the update of the Google algo that caused yours and mine and many more sites to be trashed. I was working with a theory that I read in this forum that directory type sites that display Google Adsense have been devalued, but directory style sites that don't display Adsense have been spared.

Dayo_UK




msg:711709
 8:36 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Woohoo - Now a 301/2 redirect to my site (supplemental from 1st Nov) has appeared top ten for my site name. :)

Happy days (OK - you may think that I am being sarcastic) but it does mean that people can now reach my site if they type in its name :).

Hope when Google has sorted themselves out my natural listing appears (Unless I get 301s to all my internal pages too with good ranks)

Sigh.

Note to Myself - keep optomistic - you dont need prozac - Google are working on something big. Hope. Hope. Hope.

DerekH




msg:711710
 8:52 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Bourbon is the name given to the update of the Google algo that caused yours and mine and many more sites to be trashed

Not every site can go down.

Did you mean...
"Bourbon is the name given to the update of the Google algorithm that caused a number of SEO'd sites to disappear from the top positions and be replaced by sites the *searchers* wanted to see high up"?

Or is that too mischievous?
DerekH

weela




msg:711711
 9:03 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Did you mean...
"Bourbon is the name given to the update of the Google algorithm that caused a number of SEO'd sites to disappear from the top positions and be replaced by sites the *searchers* wanted to see high up"?"

My site was definitely not “SEO’d” in the sense that I was trying to boost rankings, just common sense this goes here, this needs XYZ attribute. So I think lumping all the sites that went down in raking together isn’t very wise.

And I guarantee you there are sites above me that rank for my keywords that have ZERO content related to the keywords, whereas mine do.

rise2it




msg:711712
 9:38 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)


Just did a search for a product (not related to my business), and 4 out the top 10 are blantant spam pretend-directory pages.

Useless to the end user. Just looking at the title, snippet, and url, it's obvious what they are.

Don't the people who WORK at G-Plex actually use their search engine? When they do a search themselves, why can't they just write down a list of these crap domains to give to the programmers?

If they would do this for two days and manually delete garbage sites, they'd probably be able to wipe out 98% of them.

(...I know, I know - google doesn't like to do things that way - they want to 'tweak' an algo to do it...)

oldpro




msg:711713
 9:40 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

How about we all take a break from this drama...I am. Just peaked in 'cause I couldn't resist.

A little advise...

With Google in a mess...ie:
1) PR tool bar gone.
2) Bourbon making no sense.
3) Google's own unique keyword (adsense) was trumped by a two-bit meta redirect.
4) Cache server down.
5) and who knows what else will happen.

The chickens have come home to roost on their convoluted algo. I suspect now with all the tweaking in the past...now they fix one thing and another thing breaks down.

I still have great rankings on Google, but I am not betting the farm it will stay that way. For those who have taken a bad hit with this mess...unless there is something obviously wrong with your site, don't mess with it. Wait this thing out...and in the meantime concentrate on keeping or improving your rankings on Yahoo and MSN.

Enjoy the holiday...have some fun. Don't allow yourself to become co-dependent with a bi-polar google.

Dawg




msg:711714
 9:59 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

2 Deepcrawls with Mozilla-Googlebot on 2 Domains. 1/2 Deepcrawl on another one...

Coincidence?

I guess they try to rebuild their index to get rid of the spam stuff... Hope I am right and everything is "good" when it is finally over ...

helleborine




msg:711715
 10:08 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

The DCs show at least two sets for results for my company name, but they've been stable for nearly 48 hours now.

...not... ....good....

moftary




msg:711716
 10:14 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

But do you have a large number of links on the ranking pages to external pages/other domains? That is one of the key detriments, you didn't mention.
G LIKES sites that are new, fresh and run Adsense, and don't link lots of other sites besides Adsense.

Yes, 10~200 external link depending on the category of course. BTW, horrible traffic today HORRIBLE! I must have envied myself!

About the greyed toolbar pagerank, I don't know whether I heard it somewhere or was I dreaming but I thought that the last version of the toolbar does not have a pagerank display, so I thought that they disabled the pagerank display from the old versions too, but I just checked the toolbar homepage and found it as a feature! It seems like I was having a dream indeed.

helleborine




msg:711717
 11:06 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm not taking any chances that my index page, which is where the majority of incoming links point to, is frowned upon as a 'scraper.'

Drastic changes included removal of long list of internal links, increase in the amount of text.

And just to be ABSOLUTELY certain...

...I just removed the 3 AdSense units.

If Google still thinks I'm a scrapper after that, I won't know what to do.

Anyone has a guess on how long it might take for the changes to make a difference in the rankings?

RichTC




msg:711718
 11:22 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Whilst i cant give url examples i just want to prove how absolutely dire the current results are.

In my sector which is a big commercial sector this is the outcome of a TYPICAL sector search done since after midnight Friday:-

Top 30 results in the serps:-
8 Directory sites
3 Re-directs/ doorways (black hat page of links pointing to home page) older sites can get away with this now.
2 sites with Pure pages of links only of no use to the user.
5 sites not even remotely conected to the search term other than they provide a service for a site connected to the search term and have an outbound link to them.
8 sites with SOME on topic content that May be of use
4 sites that hit the spot.

Thats less than 12% return of relevent content - how long before users switch?

Outside of the 30 some sites rich in content about the search and of high benefit to the end user dont feature.

I would say Google is currently hanging itself

At one point i thought that MSN and Yahoo would have no chance of catching google. It looks like Google now in fact want to help them both out!

Twice today i went to google to search for content about two different things nothing to do with the sector im involved with. I just gave up and went to Yahoo in the end.

Priceless

reseller




msg:711719
 11:24 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

helleborine

>Drastic changes included removal of long list of internal links, increase in the amount of text.<

I would have waited a little more to make such "Drastic" changes. At least til we hear something from the fat lady ;-)

And there is no evidence whatsoever that the number of internal links on a page alone might trigger a filter. I have a page with 100+ internal links which ranks at top 10 for a very competitive keyphrase.

>And just to be ABSOLUTELY certain...
...I just removed the 3 AdSense units.<

The same above mentioned page has 3 spots of AdSense too. Nothing pointing in the direction that AdSense alone trigger a filter.

fearlessrick




msg:711720
 11:44 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Stop analysing and optimizing your sites for this piece of crap. Get it into your heads....GOOGLE is broken. Nothing to do with your pages or SEO efforts, and everything to do with a bug riddled algo mechanism, which is patched to the point were no one realy know (google included) how this thing works anymore..

I say amen, brother.

MikeNoLastName




msg:711721
 11:48 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

In fact from what I'm seeing, lots of INTERNAL links are good. It's links to pages OUTSIDE the domain that are of concern! And then ONLY IF they overwhelm the number of internal links. Read the posts carefully, before you screw up your site, people! :)

Reseller, for some reason the 301 redirects keep popping up as a factor occassionally too. Keep that in mind when you're investigating. Pages which were recently moved and 301 redirected to seem to have more chance of being dumped. Sorta like they're discounting those links behind the 301. Hopefully just a temporary thing.
Also on sites with a lot of dumped pages, the ordering of site:domain.com results is all screwed up. Non-description pages are showing up first, like all those pages have been stripped of PR.

George301




msg:711722
 11:54 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

HOW DID THE MOST RESPECTED SEARCH ENGINE FALL INTO PIECES

We used to rank top 5 in multiple keywords in Google, unfortunately we are nowhere to be found as of today.
Currently we are receiving multiple emails from users of our site complaining that they are not finding us in Google anymore...what a nightmare!

For now we are refering our users to Yahoo and MSN also informing them that Google has broken down into pieces.
............

For those kiddos sitting in GOOGLE offices. GO FIGURE!

reseller




msg:711723
 12:04 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Mike with many LastNames :-)

>In fact from what I'm seeing, lots of INTERNAL links are good. It's links to pages OUTSIDE the domain that are of concern! And then ONLY IF they overwhelm the number of internal links. Read the posts carefully, before you screw up your site, people! :)<

Agree. exactly.

And here is reseller equation:

Number of outbound links (OL)/Number of internal links (IL) MUST be either equal to one or less than one. I.e

OL/IL =< 1

Do you agree on that one?

>Reseller, for some reason the 301 redirects keep popping up as a factor occassionally too. Keep that in mind when you're investigating. Pages which were recently moved and 301 redirected to seem to have more chance of being dumped. Sorta like they're discounting those links behind the 301. Hopefully just a temporary thing.<

Friends here have been talking about the importance of 301 redirect non-www to www. Donīt know about 301 redirect pages.

>Also on sites with a lot of dumped pages, the ordering of site:domain.com results is all screwed up.<

Yes.. that has been mentioned either in this thread or on another thread.

Konas




msg:711724
 12:08 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google is getting more useless these days. I've seen two spammy sites with no content at all rank #1 or #2 on competitive search term and their traffics surge 200%! Now their sites rank 4000 in alexa before was not even in top 100,000. Tips in this update: text spam and link spam does work on this update.

HostingDirectory




msg:711725
 12:12 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have never seen such a sucessful website do such much damage to their reputation and viral marketing as this.

Google needs to restore the back up before this update and reconsider why their new algo is so messed up - whatever they were trying it has clearly failed. Even a company as big as Google can admit once in a while that they made a mistake.

Some of the sites now showing up in a keyword i used to rank well for, are very tastless and not the type of sites you would expect from a business term ( adult orientated, spammy ).

If this update is so big that we are only part through and everything will settle when complete - Google should atleast make a public announcement to let businesses know that Google is aware that their search results are not excurate currently due to an update that will take several days to clear.. or something to that effect.

If the engineers at Google think this update is better and more relavant then Google directors should be advertising for new staff.

If Google think that its ok that a few innocent websites get hit in this new penalisation algo that knowone understands - then they are wrong. Google has been made from viral marketing and can be brought down with viral marketing.

When was the last time a website had so much bad viral marketing so quickly?

I can't think of any.

In fact.. lets be honest.. Google is broken and might not be repairable.

Atleast there is Yahoo and the emergin MSN.

fearlessrick




msg:711726
 12:14 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

helleborine, I'd not make any changes to your site. I visited it and it's just fine.

Google is messed up, not you.

Just a note, my adsense revenue today is the worst in 6 months, and I've added pages, content and done lots of work on it thinking I would reap the benefits of being a solid resource.

Guess not...

RichTC




msg:711727
 12:17 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Its not just about loss of position, its the dire state of the results being given.

Only two nights ago the results were pure, full of content related sites, it was a delight - they had finally cracked it.

After Friday midnight they switched over to an entire index of junk - i could scream, the results are so dire, what a dam waste of what has previously been a dam good search engine.

I dont think anyone here can claim that what we currently see is anywhere near remotely usefull to any one searching.

Its one thing a site not showing, its another when cr@p directory sites, non relevent sites and other junk feature above quality content sites.

In my sector, i kid you not, 3 sites that supply a service to websites that relate to the search term feature above sites that are dedicated to the search term - how can that be right?

I think google have forgot the end user. If the end user gets poor results like these and cant find anything but a directory telling them about more sites to try, or a doorway page site, or non relevent content, its just a matter of time before they give using google full stop in favour of Yahoo and MSN.

This is the worst set of results ive ever seen in google

HostingDirectory




msg:711728
 12:24 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have just realised one thing that knowone has considered about this mess...

Lets look at the facts...

1) Good sites beind droped from index
2) Strange / odd / poor quality sites showing in index
3) Some sites not effected
4) Update keeps on changing... its been over a week now
5) Pagerank was recently updated and now it is completely gone worldwide
6) Googles cache server is now down

Excuse me if i might be wrong, but all of the above points to one thing knowone has mentioned.

A virus.

Perhaps googles datacenters have been infected with a computer virus that has wiped out everything that was good about the algo?

reseller




msg:711729
 12:36 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

HostingDirectory

>Perhaps googles datacenters have been infected with a computer virus that has wiped out everything that was good about the algo?<

All what is happening now is only continuation of what have started already on 3rd Feb 2005 (allegra update) and continued on 23rd March. Bourbon is just finishing the job for allegra.

sailorjwd




msg:711730
 12:44 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here's a another summary of a badly hit site:

250 pages with 60 left in Google - all penalized severly.

One adsense block on each of the 250 pages - large adsense revenue (was) and large adwords spending

Most pages that are missing were those with <300 words.

One page that is still indexed is my outbound links page with about 30 outbounds.

Very bloated HTML associated with top of page and left/right navigation.

I have a split sitemap that is divided fairly evenly into 3 pages and only the 1st one remains in index.

Site in DMOZ but has just been removed from Google's Directory.

I don't do any 301 redirects for www/non-www but all pages are listed as www in site command.

Essentially no ranking in G for any keywords - about zero G visitors (down from about 5000/day).

Visitors find it easy to find my site based on "The Company Name" only because there are 3000 results pointing to me based on exact name.

In Yahoo often 2 of the top 5 for many hundreds of keyword phrases - about 100 yahoo visitors per day.

As many as 15000 scraper sites pointing to me using various methods.

Site started Oct 2001

PR 4 site (was anyway)

Home page removed in Feb via the URL-Removal tool disaster (maybe the cause of all problems)

RichTC




msg:711731
 12:47 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

reseller,

what, wreck the results all together?.

Come on. If anyone at google thinks the results UK today are an improvement they must have a screw loose. They are currently dire - worst ever.

I think the virus idea could be possible. I mean the results were perfect Friday. Then after midnight they went pear shapped. Page rank missing, cashed pages not loading, serps producing irrelevent results - its possible.

No engineer in their right mind would like the look of these results so maybe they do have a virus problem

reseller




msg:711732
 1:02 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

RichTC

>reseller,

what, wreck the results all together?.

Come on. If anyone at google thinks the results UK today are an improvement they must have a screw loose. They are currently dire - worst ever.<

They are still testing algos, I guess. What you see isnīt the final result.

>I think the virus idea could be possible. I mean the results were perfect Friday. Then after midnight they went pear shapped. Page rank missing, cashed pages not loading, serps producing irrelevent results - its possible.<

You talk about "perfect results" on friday til after midnight. Right?

Here is what I wrote on Thursday:
msg #:542
[webmasterworld.com...]

I think that the folks at Google are just doing "Damage Assessment" at present before launching their final attack, maybe already tonight or tomorrow.

From what I see, they have been targeting, among other things, sites related to affiliate program marketing. However, the current serps illustrate that they havenīt been that successful in doing that.

And thats exactly what happened, right?

>No engineer in their right mind would like the look of these results so maybe they do have a virus problem <

Google look at the serps in a very different manner than you and I do. Their eyes are focused on $$$$$$. Therefore!

wattsnew




msg:711733
 2:40 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

sailorjwd,

<<250 pages with 60 left in Google - all penalized severly.>>

Are the missing pages URL only or simply gone in site:*?

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