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This 789 message thread spans 27 pages: < < 789 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 27 > >     
Google Update Bourbon Part 3
Sweet Cognac




msg:711613
 8:35 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued From:

[webmasterworld.com...]



My whole site has a new cache date of May 25th. Maybe once these other sites around me get recached, I won't hold such an honorable top position. But at least Google has found my pages worthy to sit in the Search again.:) It seems strange to look at the stats and see Google in there, after 6 months of just seeing Yahoo and MSN referrals.

My website has plenty of outbound links, but they are on relevant pages. The problem my site has always had, was a lack of "inbound links." I got tired of searching for people to link to me (with all the spammy sites around) and gave up. So my pages have acquired some links naturally I guess(and I'll bet I still don't have more than 30 inbound links for the whole site) Still have a PR4, which I've had since it disappeared in Nov.

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 8:54 pm (utc) on May 27, 2005]

 

travelorama




msg:711673
 10:30 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

<quote> Well after midnight last night the uk serps were returning cr@p again.</quote>

Well, not sure about the cr@p thing, but several websites I monitor have once again gone into the sandbox oblivion.

Sweet Cognac




msg:711674
 11:26 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think Google is still using two datacenters. On one set my site is in the second spot, in the other dc my site is being found through a link on a site to my site. The serps look really clean on both sets. No directories or spam, and the other popular websites for that niche, that I have following, have sort of all lined up. These sites deserve to be in the spots they are. I think the second set is more correct for the niche, even though I like being number 2 :) They are more established authoritive sites, and I just have the inside information and personal experience.

2 websites (and their sites are huge, like every city in the US,) I see they have lost rankings.

I said the cache date was the 25th, but it says the 26th now, if it makes a difference. My pages are still resurfacing slowly, and I'm getting pulled up for keywords I didn't even think to optimize for. Like if my keyword is red widgets, then I'm surfacing for Attractive Widgets, Pictures of Widgets, Things to do with widgets, etc.

I see PR is still down, so I did some reading up on TrustRank, which is interesting

In Yahoo and MSN, my site is holding #1 positions for my targeted 3 word phrase, so I must be doing something right.

Noximus




msg:711675
 2:53 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

PR IS TURNED OFF!
It seems that it is the beginning of PR update...

TypicalSurfer




msg:711676
 3:03 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

PR IS TURNED OFF!
It seems that it is the beginning of PR update...

Maybe they are just changing the color. I think a baby blue bar would be cool!

Pico_Train




msg:711677
 3:11 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

They should increase it to a value out of 100.

Clint




msg:711678
 3:22 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

*PR IS TURNED OFF!
It seems that it is the beginning of PR update... *

No doubt after that "PR update" my company's PR will then become ZERO. As of Friday the 20th, I WAS 1st on the 1st page for hundreds of search phrases. Saturday the 21st, my site was DELTED from their index (along with my business!) and for this past week my PR remained the same. So I'm sure after this BS it will be zero. I no longer show up for even a search for my business name. :(

I too am still #1 @Yahoo, MSN, Alta Vista, etc., but that's of little help with G's SE market share.

europeforvisitors




msg:711679
 3:47 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

PR IS TURNED OFF!
It seems that it is the beginning of PR update...

Or it could simply mean that PR display isn't working.

skunker




msg:711680
 3:48 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

My two sites have come out of the sandbox yesterday and now they are ranking in the top 5 for my main keywords. Interestingly, traffic doesn't seem to be affected much.

Hope that helps with any speculation.

garyr_h




msg:711681
 3:53 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I highly doubt that there is going to be another PR Update. They just updated it not too long ago..

Probably just tweeking something

Dayo_UK




msg:711682
 3:53 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wonder if G Engineers are in doing over time this weekend.

Of course - it may be all automated anyway and they are just sitting and relaxing, playing ping pong, patting the dog - or whatever they do at the Plex :).

Clint




msg:711683
 4:09 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

MikeNoLastName
>The three rules needed to get dumped SEEM to be:
1. High proportion of external links (including affiliate links) to internal links and/or content on the page. (exact proportion unknown)
2. Domain newer than 4 years. (over 4 MAY or may not be exempted if 1 & 3 exist)
3. Adsense Ads on the page. <

So far so good :-)

Lets take a look at this one excluding affiliate links for the moment and concentrating only on outbound and internal links:

>1. High proportion of external links (including affiliate links) to internal links and/or content on the page. (exact proportion unknown).<

Have done some counting for the pages which preserved their ranking and those lost it. I can see that the number outbound links shouldn't exceed the number of internal links. Maybe its a factor of:

Maximum Outbound links number either equal or preferably 10% less than the number of internal links.

As to affiliate links I'm looking at present at pages with affiliate programs reviews, both those which kept their ranking on the serps and those which lost it. Shall keep this thread posted.

As to AdSense, It might be a factor among other factors to identify the target pages but not a factor which alone cause a page to be penalized.


Regarding the first part of your post; that's not what I have seen. In place of where *I* was a week ago (on the 1st page of results for hundreds of search terms), I have now been replaced with "bogus" sites, link farms, other search engine type pages, sites with hidden text, sites from INDIA (this is in a USA English search ONLY), and loads of non-relevant hits! What do many of these hits have in common? Google ADWORDS and Adsense! Obviously Google is "giving special treatment" to sites that run their ads, and "rewards" to spamming sites as well! Again, also most of the hits are link exchange pages/affiliate links sites!

Interestingly, I also have 3 websites that are nothing but basic one page only sites (these are just an index page with 2 link exchange pages) that are their domain names for sale. They have shot up to the 1st or 2nd page of results at Google in a search for each of their respective fields. One is 1st on the 1st page now (all of them are linked to my main site). This is where they USED to be for years, but some time back they got trashed by Google and remained trashed. But now, they are back on top. That's of little consolation to me though since my main biz site is trashed.

nutsandbolts




msg:711684
 4:24 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Interestingly, I also have 3 websites that are nothing but basic one page only sites (these are just an index page with 2 link exchange pages) that are their domain names for sale...They have shot up to the 1st or 2nd page of results at Google in a search for each of their respective fields

I am seeing lots of this also. Not very funny seeing domain parked pages above sites with oodles of content...

Google must be working on "suggestion" rank - where the merest suggestion of a topic boosts the ranking of that page in the SERPS compared to those that are perhaps overdoing it (in Google's eyes) on the site optimisation/content/linking front....

Freedom




msg:711685
 4:29 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google was a lot better search engine when it only had 2.3 billion pages indexed. Six billion more pages of #*$! doesn't make a better search engine.

Google scholar was the only good thing they came up with lately and I don't think that idea was their's.

Dayo_UK




msg:711686
 4:32 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Freedom

The web has changed though.

If you compare it to looking for a needle in a haystack - the amount of hay has gone up a lot lot more than the amount of needles.

Freedom




msg:711687
 4:36 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

If the hay is #*$! and the needles are the golden nuggets of information, then I agree. There is more hay and more is not necessarily better.

MFA sites and scrapers must account for at least 2 billion pages. ;-]

Clint




msg:711688
 4:46 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Interestingly, I also have 3 websites that are nothing but basic one page only sites (these are just an index page with 2 link exchange pages) that are their domain names for sale...They have shot up to the 1st or 2nd page of results at Google in a search for each of their respective fields

I am seeing lots of this also. Not very funny seeing domain parked pages above sites with oodles of content...

Google must be working on "suggestion" rank - where the merest suggestion of a topic boosts the ranking of that page in the SERPS compared to those that are perhaps overdoing it (in Google's eyes) on the site optimisation/content/linking front....


I hope to God they aren't bringing that cr@p back! That is the single most ABUSED thing on the internet. I haven't use the G-toolbar in a long time (malware) but last time I did it had that "rating area" where you would rate sites. I installed the toolbar again a few days ago and I no longer see that area. There is nothing stopping your competitors from going to your site and "standing" on the "0" rating for your webpages!

I don't know if you'd call these "domain parked pages". I registered and own the domains, and the way I try and sell them is I made a webpage for them. At any rate, speaking of *real* domain parked pages and something else odd; I forgot to mention that I have a few field-related domain names that are "pointed", "parked", or "forwarded" (whatever you want to call it) to my main business domain. When you enter these names in your address bar, their domain names will show in the address bar as well for all links clicked, but the content is the exact same thing for each (the content of my main site of course). I never even submitted these other domains to Google, and now **THEY** are showing up *INSTEAD OF MY MAIN DOMAIN* in searches for phrases where my main domain WAS showing up! (Although WAAAAAY down the results list now for search phrases). They even show up now for a search for my business name, where my main no longer does (again, although way down the results list)! This is one of the main things that PROVE how ****ed up this update is. People removed from G's index for their OWN BUSINESS NAMES, yet OTHER SITES now showing instead!

Dayo_UK




msg:711689
 4:50 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint

Are you saying you have other sites that have the exact same content as your main site?

You probably should really have 301 redirected them to your main site or excluded Googlebot via Robots.txt. It does not really matter if you have submitted them or not - Google has ways of finding domains.

thefa




msg:711690
 5:07 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

MikeNoLastName
The more non-competitive, neutral, free content you offer (like published library book text ;), the more they'll like you.

I wish this could be true and for a while I had the impression it was. Bourbon just proved this to be wrong in our case.
Either we have some very obvious other problem or our site matches the "non-competitive, neutral, free content" definition and still got hit by Bourbon. We lost between 60 and 80% of the visits coming from Google.
Most of our content is the on-line version of a published library book...

Clint




msg:711691
 5:10 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint
Are you saying you have other sites that have the exact same content as your main site?

You probably should really have 301 redirected them to your main site or excluded Googlebot via Robots.txt. It does not really matter if you have submitted them or not - Google has ways of finding domains.


Hello, well,.....yes and no. These are names that are in the same field as my business and main domain name. They don't have any kind of 'hosting package' nor do they have their own Cpanel areas. If anyone should happen to click their links anywhere, they are just directed/fwd'd/pointed to my main site via my main site's Cpanel. Their domain names show in the address bar, but the content is that of my main site. I would think it is these *other* domains that have the dupe content, not my MAIN site. So it should be THEM that's not showing up in hit results, not my main site, right?

If this is bad, then how would/could I change this in Cpanel?
Thanks.

Dayo_UK




msg:711692
 5:16 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>I would think it is these *other* domains that have the dupe content, not my MAIN site.

Well - in an ideal world - yes.

>>>If this is bad, then how would/could I change this in Cpanel?

Hmmm - you might need to ask your hosts but you might be able to do it with .htaccess.

There have been 101 threads in the Apache forum about redirecting recently. (But I am not an expert so would not personally want to hand out code - in case I am wrong).

Clint




msg:711693
 5:24 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks, my registrar also does redirects (they call it "forwarding") for no charge. Maybe I'll try fwd'ing one name with them and see which name will show in the address bar. Right now my htacess file has in it one of these for each name:
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER}!^$
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER}!^http://OtherDomainName.com/.*$ [NC]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER}!^http://OtherDomainName.com$ [NC]

Dayo_UK




msg:711694
 5:29 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clint - explain your Circumstance and ask a Question in the Apache forum.:-

[webmasterworld.com...]

Clint




msg:711695
 5:40 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello, my hosts use Linux.

uksports




msg:711696
 5:41 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Googlebot is on and looking for some very old pages on my site, so one guess, bearing in mind the lack of PR anywhere, is that this is a major attempt to clean up the index - it's possible this will rumble on and on as a full re-index will take some serious amount of processing - PR will return once the index has been cleaned up?

Dayo_UK




msg:711697
 5:46 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

uksports

Is it Mozilla Googlebot - that bot has a schedule of its own. (Pages dont seem to be added to the index reliably - unless things change)

Clint

Yep - Apache forum for you then :)

rise2it




msg:711698
 5:48 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Google was a lot better search engine when it only had 2.3 billion pages indexed. Six billion more pages of #*$! doesn't make a better search engine."

"MFA sites and scrapers must account for at least 2 billion pages"

====================

'Freedom' hit it right on the head in his two previous posts.

How hard can it REALLY be to recognize (and delete) these scraper sites?

It's pretty easy to recognize them - I can usually pick them out of the search results without actually clicking on them.

I would think anyone (meaning SOMEONE at the G-Plex) with programming knowledge could sit down in 5 minutes and write a script to delete this garbage.

Wonder if G's ranking algorithms are suffering from massive 'code bloat' over the years, kinda like Microsoft products...

Wibfision




msg:711699
 5:49 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Has anybody got a site that was devalued in Bourbon that does not display Adsense?

Dayo_UK




msg:711700
 5:50 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

On the subject of page rank down, cache pages down. How are Google partners doing - trying to search on AOL at the moment and not getting much success.

Off to check Netscape etc.

Seems to be better now. Prob just temp.

Will Spencer




msg:711701
 5:58 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I would like to compare a group of sites which were ***hammered*** by Bourbon to see if I can identify similarities.

If your site was completely hammered by Bourbon, please private message me the URL.

By completely hammered, I mean that you had at least 100 SERPS which were in the top 5 and now they are not in the top 200.

Thanks!

max_mm




msg:711702
 6:04 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wonder if G's ranking algorithms are suffering from massive 'code bloat' over the years, kinda like Microsoft products...

By how it looks right now, there are no longer any "Google algorithms" running.

This page with the big "GOOGLE" words at the middle is merely a shadow of what google used to be . This is no longer the mother of SEs, the innovative artificial intelligence many of us respected and worshiped.

What we are seeing nowadays is a broken overly patched piece of code, deviated miles away from that good old code the founders invented and shared with the world. What we are seeing nowadays is a no sense piece of crap, a mare hit and miss attempt by some new kiddos at the plex, having nothing better to do then to warm their chairs and try and justify their over inflated salary packages.

And the founders, they are out and about, busy with increasing their real estate portfolios.

Stop analysing and optimizing your sites for this piece of crap. Get it into your heads....GOOGLE is broken. Nothing to do with your pages or SEO efforts, and everything to do with a bug riddled algo mechanism, which is patched to the point were no one realy know (google included) how this thing works anymore..

God help us all.

P.S.
Do a search for "google is broken"

[edited by: max_mm at 6:15 pm (utc) on May 28, 2005]

Clint




msg:711703
 6:14 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

On the subject of page rank down, cache pages down. How are Google partners doing - trying to search on AOL at the moment and not getting much success.
Off to check Netscape etc.

Seems to be better now. Prob just temp.


Their cached pages are working for me now (if you mean when you click "cached" for a page in any search results).

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