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This 115 message thread spans 4 pages: 115 ( [1] 2 3 4 > >     
webmasters who have been hit
possible reasons we took a hit.
chopin2256

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 4:17 am on May 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am calling out to all webmasters who took a "HUGE" hit in the Bourbon update, in which it is obvious that a penalty now exists on your sites. I don't want this thread to be about "whining or complaining about Google". I hope we can just try to "discuss and suggest" what possibly could be the reason for the penalties that Google gave to some webmasters who only use white hat seo. I know some of you guys discussed a few things in the Google Bourbon update thread, however I want this group to start out with just those of us who have been "hit bigtime" to prevent those of you who are doing well from bragging (we know you like the current results, tired of hearing useless statements..same goes for us, yeah we hate the results because we don't perform well, what else is new...its useless to complain though). So many people are either complaining, or bragging rather than offering ideas.

I would like to see if we can break down the reasons why we dropped out of the SERPS, and offer ways to protect our domains in the future. I want to see how many of us have something in common: (more statements can be added)

1. Are you in a competitive money area? (yeah but keywords are not too bad)
2. Are you an adsense publisher? (yes, but really, really doubt this has anything to do with it)
3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic? (nah, not yet..but was growing enough where it would stink if I lost it...I lost it)
4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings? (shared)
5. Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you? (definitely believe I was penalized)
6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa? (I did!) Are there any other htaccess codes to put in by the way?
7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra, did Allegra take you out of the sandbox, then did it dump you back in the sandbox in the Bourbon update? (Yes, I was out of the sanbox due to the allegra update, now im even worse than I was 9 months ago...cant even rank for a phrase with 1000 results. Its to the point where I can only rank if NO website contains the keyword.)
8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? How many words per page on average? (about 6-10 keywords...about 180 words per page, keyword density is 10/180 = about 5% max most of the time...sometimes maybe 10% if I have a short writeup)
9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close? (My headers are always [h1]keyword[/h1], and the keyword also starts at the beginning of my first sentence usually...so the header keyword, and regular keyword are adjacent. Other than that, keywords for me are naturally spaced apart for the most part...about 9-15+ words in between the keywords.)
10. How old is your site? (10 months)
11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally? (I politely asked other music site webmasters if they would like to exchange links. I stopped doing this after I ranked in G, because I realized I needed more content.)
12. Do spammy sites outrank you? (yes!)
13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc? (yes!)
14. Do you hate Google. (no I think their search engine is great, despite my horrible rankings)

Well, maybe we can all communicate to each other what went wrong. If we find out that there is enough similarities between certain things, maybe that could be one cause of our dropped rankings. Perhaps everyone has number 4 and 6 in common. This may mean there is a relationship between 301 redirects, and dedicated ip's. Please, set your anger aside for the moment and lets just talk about the possibilities. Be nice too. No bashing Google, it will defeat the purpose of this thread. Thank you.

 

tahiti

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 2:45 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

chopin2256,

1. Are you in a competitive money area?
- Yes it's a money term but the competition is not too bad.

2. Are you an adsense publisher?
- Yes. i believe adsense doesnt affect your ranking. BUT, the affiliate site in my industry, that stand on a solid #1 for tons of money keywords doesnt use Adsense AT ALL. but there is no prove that these two things link together.

3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?
- not really. i diversive my traffics sources a lot. writting 'real' articles with useful info is working good for me.

4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?
- dedicated. yes, dedicated IP improve rankings. so does your whois locations.

5. Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you?
- not really, but for some keyword that i target them intensively swings from page 1 to page 57 hours by hours. the results look good to me -- two months ago my field was full with sites (probably from the same owner) who use expired domain, no value content at all but full with keyword spammings and affiliate links were dominating the SERP. feel sad that time but one by one, G eliminate them and pull up those who worth rank high. yeah, they are my competitors but those sites now on G first page i really respect their dedications and hard work.

6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa? Are there any other htaccess codes to put in by the way?
- put in .htaccess files since the site is build. no problem at all with the www and non www issue.

7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra, did Allegra take you out of the sandbox, then did it dump you back in the sandbox in the Bourbon update?
- (i was out before Allegra - the site started off last year August)

8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? How many words per page on average?
- 3 set of keyphase each page, each phase are formed with 3 keywords. same tactics through out the whole site.

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close?
- never think of that, and will not care about that. the smoothness of the contents are more important to my user ..mainly i am just doing keyword density optimization and link building.

10. How old is your site?
- Since August 2004 - 9 months

11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?
- link exchange + articles posting + forum posting. a few crazy shot of link exchange campaign were done manually in the past ...yielding me 1500+ b/l within 6 months.

12. Do spammy sites outrank you?
- used to. but its getting much better now.

13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc?
- good in Yahoo ... MSN, NOT AT ALL. msn in my field is full with craps.

14. Do you hate Google.
- nope. but this question wouldnt add any value to the thread, right? ;)

i think its REALLY still early to draw any conclusion now as Google is still dancing wildly out there.

helleborine

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 3:11 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Shared
5. Yes
6. Cannot be done in my case, however Goog has no problem with mine.
7. n/a
8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? 3-5 How many words per page on average? 70
9. Proximity of keywords? (?)
10. How old is your site? (18 months)
11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? Reciprocal and unidirectional. Then all directories. How often do you get new quality links?
Every 4-5 days, a new link. Also I have 3 topical websites that are interlinked to some small degree. 12. Yes!
13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc? #1
14. Do you hate Google. I do now! ;-)

newkid2005

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 3:17 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

15. Why should anybody visit your website?
16. Why should Google promote your website?

danny

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 3:19 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. Are you in a competitive money area?

Yes, but only in so far as anything to do with books is competitive.

2. Are you an adsense publisher?

Yes, but I've pulled AdSense from my site just in case - I can't think of anything else.

3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?

No.

4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?

Dedicated IP.

Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you?

I now rank 17th or suchlike for "my name book reviews". It wasn't so long ago that I was on the first page for a search on plain "book reviews".

6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa?

I've used 301 redirects to canonicalise non-www since I got the current domain, over five years ago.

8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? How many words per page on average?

I've never done any optimisation of this kind.

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close?

No idea, as I don't target keywords. My page titles and H1s are basically book titles, but I've done some work to make sure they contain the most useful information for users - deciding what to leave out when the TITLEs get too long.

10. How old is your site?

Five years on the current domain, 11 years in total

11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?

I've never really asked anyone for links, they just appeared... Things were easier back in 1995, though!

12. Do spammy sites outrank you?

Not so much spammy as totally irrelevant.

13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc?

Yep.

oldpro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 3:39 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

choplin,

I may not be qualified to post here since my site did not take a hit at all. However, maybe I can shed some light on the situation by what has happened to a couple of my competitors sites. We are all at the top of the serps for the money keyphrase.

To answer your questions regarding my website:

1. Yes..very competitive.
2. No adsense or adwords...alot of my competitors do adwords.
3. Some...way more $ from direct hits due to strong brand recognition.
4. Shared IP
6. no
7.allegra..no effect
8. one keyword phrase on some, two keyword phrases on others.
9. same as you...keywords in <h> tags and beginning of following paragraph...after that whatever comes natural.
10. 11 years...most of competition at top of serps are at least 5 years old or more.
11. never bothered with obtaining links...google says I have 11 inbound links, yahoo shows way more...about 100. I have no reciprical links and I do not link out.
12. No....none in top 12...a few below me.
13. Do well on Yahoo and MSN
14. Don't hate google, but it is frustrating because a few months back I optimized for google and it hurt my rankings on Yahoo and MSN. Went up on google and went down on Y and MSN. Google requires too much time and effort because it is not consistent or stable.

With all that said...a couple of my competitors completely went out of sight...nowhere to be found on google. They should not have been at the top either. Both old sites...probably 9 or 10 years old. Both had alot of outbound links...one looked like a link farm. Lots of banners and such. Of note, before bourbon these sites could not be found on Yahoo or MSN and I was always curious why google placed them in the top 10. Now they are gone from everywhere.

My two cents...I think google is trashing it's page rank thing in regard to outbound and inbound links some kind of way. It's too easily exploited. I speculate that bourbon is an implementation of trustrank...whatever that is. I would not be surprised that soon the pagerank on the tool bar will be replaced with a trustrank rating.

oldpro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 3:49 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Oh...one more thing...on the 301 redirects.

I have even moved pages from the root to another directory...deleted the originals from the server and just let the spiders pick them up. Even moved content from one page to another. In my experience dup. content and the importance of 301's are over-estimated sometimes.

Liane

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 4:16 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? 3-5 How many words per page on average? 70

I am going to write two paragraphs containing seventy words, five of which will be keywords. The point of this excercise is to point out that keyword density can be very problematic if you make a habit of keyword stuffing your copy.

I have just used the word "keywords" in one paragraph ... not once but three times! Think about it! How many keywords are too many in your honest opinion?

(The above two paragraphs contain 70 words in total)

OK ... to be honest, I could not write 70 words using "keywords" 5 times without making it sound ridiculous. (Well, perhaps I could have done ... but I didn't want to spend the time crafting the copy just for the sake of examplifying my point.

As a result, I used the singular form, "keyword" twice and the plural form "keywords" three times.

70 words per page is mighty scimpy content in my opinion. Google (or any surfer) would have a very hard time recognizing such a page as having any substantive value.

If this is your site wide content versus keyword ratio, I would have to say that if your site is doing poorly ... there is no doubt in my mind as to why.

Cut your keyword density back to a point where the copy reads naturally. Be certain to let the search engines know what your page is about without clubbing them over the head ... and I believe you will find a much greater rate of success! You might also consider fleshing out your copy a tad. As I said, 70 words is pretty scimpy offerings!

danny

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 5:35 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't understand this keyword density nonsense.

Firstly, I'm rather picky about my language - I've done some professional work as a copy editor - and there's no way I'm going to fart around with my lexical choice just on the the off chance it might affect a search engine.

Secondly, I've yet to see any evidence that keyword density actually makes any real difference with Google. Density shmensity, I say - worry about writing good English (or Aymara or Lardil, or whatever your preferred language is).

As for page lengths, I can tell you that the average length of my 844 book reviews is 415 words (of actual content, not counting headers, links, bibliographic data, etc.). But again, I'm hardly going to write more or less to try to comply with the whims of some search engine.

jd01

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 5:52 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

If this is your site wide content versus keyword ratio, I would have to say that if your site is doing poorly ... there is no doubt in my mind as to why.

Have you ever entered searches for highly competitive keyword niches and then run a KDA on every page in the top ten?

I did this for about 30 niches one day, because I wanted to know, and the density is all over the place, some as high as 12%. I started with something that sounds like perch en gin hop ta my station (Think I got the keywords out of there.) and went from there to my niche and a number of other highly competitive searches.

Very interesting, because my final conclusion was keyword density in Google does not matter that much.

Justin

BTW Page length ranged from about 120 words to about 1500 words, so that is kind of moot also.

kartiksh

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 9:08 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. Are you in a competitive money area?

- Not really
2. Are you an adsense publisher?

- Yes..
3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?

- No. its enough to run the site free of cost with fuel to make me realize that I too earn my petrol expenses for the month
4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?

- I have shared ip but it was changed 4 times in last 5 years now.

5. Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you?

- not sure but even my site’s PR went down I have steady visitors to my site.
6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa? Are there any other htaccess codes to put in by the way?

- NA

7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra, did Allegra take you out of the sandbox, then did it dump you back in the sandbox in the Bourbon update?

- NA
8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? How many words per page on average?

- Not optimized the site but has different keyword and Meta description in each page. (About 300 pages)

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close?

- I am focused on quality of content as my site was delivering the same before the inception of google adsense. So more focused on good quality content.
10. How old is your site?

- Since August 2000 – about 5 yrs now.
11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?

- never tried to get link but recently i.e. this month I have added link exchange section in my site as I realized the site PR was dropped from 5 to 4, first time in 4 and half year now.
12. Do spammy sites outrank you?

- yes
13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc?

- doing better in Google than MSN and Yahoo as I never tried to promote or optimize my site.

14. Do you hate Google.

- I love infect as I see continues improvement in ranking of my site with various key phrases and with the fact the pages are not optimized and 70% of the content is the same while I launched the site.
15. Why should anybody visit your website?

To get free technical tutorials for that they have to spend money on reference books or buy subscription in technology site.

16. Why should Google promote your website?

Initially I thought I don’t want Google to promote my site but I know they are on their mission to deliver quality non commercial content first in their result and since my site matches with their theme it is indexed and working fine. But since last one year my thoughts changed my view that I can have more visitors if they promote my site.

Natashka

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 10:26 am on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. Are you in a competitive money area?
Not really, it's a craft site (4 AdWord publishers for my keyword: ebay, amazon etc..)

2. Are you an adsense publisher?
Yes, and Google invited my site into a program itself.

3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?
I don't think so. Though Google dropped me 3 days ago, my sales are about the same, but it's too early to tell.

4. Dedicated or Shared IP?
Shared (powweb)

5. Do you believe you were penalized?
Yes, coz I dropped from #1 to #33 on my main keyword and absolutely dissappeared on the rest of keywords, and I used to be on 1st page for all of those.

6. Did you forget the 301 redirect?
n/a, never used those

7. For those of you in the sandbox...
n/a

8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing?
1 keyword and 3 keyphrases on main page, the rest is 1 keyphrase per page.

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close?
I think this one is the possible case of penalty. Yes, they are close. In fact, the main page is a description of the other sections of my site (1 sentence per section), in each sentence 1-2 keywords, also keywords in alt text of images. I don't use <h1> tag. I did a test: stuffed 3 more keywords on main page, and my site dropped even more, 4 more positions. So in my case it may be it. But my site was like this for 5(!) years, and was always on 1st page.

10. How old is your site?
since 1998 (even before Google came into the picture), was always on 1st page, it really hurts :(

11. About links
No, I don't obtain new links often, this site is kinda abandoned, I have others more profitable, which were not hit by this update, I concentrated recently on those and forgot my grandpa. But hey, my competitors don't update their links either, I know for sure! Also, I could have linked to somebody bad, while they only link to blogs and pages on geocities.

12. Do spammy sites outrank you?
No, all my competirors are other craft sites, they are all still there, only my site is gone. Coz they have no idea about SEO, and I do, and I think TOO much knowledge sometimes can do you harm.

13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc?
Yes, #1 in Yahoo and #4 in MSN, that's why I'm not sure if should change anything on my site. After all, it may not help with Google, but Yahoo may not like it!

14. Do you hate Google?
No, I hate my neighbours!

flicker

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 1:58 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Danny, you don't think it might be a problem that so much of your content is duplicated at rec.arts.books.reviews, do you?

Just grasping at straws; I really have no idea what Google's problem could be with your site otherwise (the chance of a bunch of book reviews being mistaken for a scraper site seems close to zero no matter how flawed the algorithm is!)

[edited to add:]

Actually, I suppose it's theoretically possible that Google might be mistaking it for an Amazon affiliate sales page... it would be weird, though, since there's so much text in each review and none of it is pulled from Amazon.

Pico_Train

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 3:09 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. Are you in a competitive money area?

Sort of.

2. Are you an adsense publisher?

Yes

3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?

Yes, not adsense though

4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?

Shared, thinking about dedicated.

5. Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you?

Not sure I am penalised, maybe forgotten...Other sites are not outranking for long strings of text from my site. My domain name search is also back to normal.

6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa? Are there any other htaccess codes to put in by the way?

Have never used one and don't think it was ever a problem.

7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra, did Allegra take you out of the sandbox, then did it dump you back in the sandbox in the Bourbon update?

Way out of sandbox before allegra.

8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? How many words per page on average?

Keyword phrase of 3 words, title, description, in text, sometimes in <h> tags.

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close?

Don't think so.

10. How old is your site? (10 months)

3.5 years old.

11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?

I exchanged links but with quality sites. Never stopped obtaining quality links. I am quite picky about linking out.

12. Do spammy sites outrank you?

Sometimes yes, sometimes not, depends on the search.

13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc?

Not really, decently but not great.

14. Do you hate Google.

No just pissed right now.

Clint



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 6:06 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

So has anyone come up with any commonalties yet?

Ok, here's my 2 cents:

*1. Are you in a competitive money area?*
Computers & hardware related

*2. Are you an adsense publisher?*
No, and I've noticed that I've been REPLACED in the results for where I WAS #1 (as of Friday the 20th) by spamming sites, link farms, non-relevant content, AND sites that USE ADSENSE and ADWORDS!

*3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic? (nah, not yet..but was growing enough where it would stink if I lost it...I lost it)*
I left your comment there because it's MINE as well, exactly like that. I've had ONE SALE since last Friday! Thanks to the Google ********** (put your own cuss-word there). If this keeps up, I'll be bankrupt and my family and I HOMELESS.

*4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?*
I currently have 5 sites. Two are my main business. The other 3 or just domain names for sale. My two main biz sites were TRASHED, but these other "cover pages" for the domains for sale are on 1st or 2nd results pages now for a search in their fields! For years they were 1st on the 1st page, the G destroyed that about 2 years ago, where until Friday they remained lost in cyberspace. Now, they are back on top. No consolation to me since this doesn't help my sales! My two main sites, and two of the other sites are on the same server and shared IP address. One of the domain names for sale is on different host.

*5. Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you?*
I was more than "penalized", I was DELETED! Now, for all the hundreds of search phrases (and my own biz name search) where I was 1st, OTHER SITES LINKED TO ME are now 1st and all over the first few pages! These sites are all 'link exchange' sites and search engine/shopping type sites! **I** was trashed, but not them!

*6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa? (I did!) Are there any other htaccess codes to put in by the way?*
My sites are automatically accessible with or without the www prefix. FWIW, I have always submitted my non www pages to SE's, yet ONLY my www prefix sites showed at Google! The only redirects I use are for other domain names I own that are my related field that 'point' to my main domain name in the event any of their URL's are "clicked" anywhere. (I do this via Cpanel and this shows up in my htacess file).

*7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra, did Allegra take you out of the sandbox, then did it dump you back in the sandbox in the Bourbon update?*
Sorry, don't know what "Allegra" is (other than an allergy med). <snip>

*8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? How many words per page on average?*
Sorry, don't know the answer to that now. I haven't paid any attention to my keywords tag for several years now since I don't know of any SE's that use them anymore. It's always the title and descrip tags (esp. with Google). What shows in my title and descrip tags is also throughout the respective webpage.

*9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close?*
See above for some of this. I use h1, h2 and h3 tags for main text and and key word text. That's not necessary "keywords" but words and phrases that are key in searches. They are all throughout the pages.

*10. How old is your site?*
Since at least about 1998, 8 years....and this is 8+ years DOWN THE DRAIN and TRASHED!

*11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?*
I only recently (several months ago) started any link exchanges.

*12. Do spammy sites outrank you?*
YES, and bogus sites, hidden text sites, link farms, non-relevant BS, etc.

*13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc?*
Still at the top in MSN, Yahoo, Alta Vista, dozens of others.

*14. <sniP>

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 6:53 pm (utc) on May 28, 2005]
[edit reason] thanks - no tool drops and/or calls to action please. [/edit]

danny

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 12:02 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Danny, you don't think it might be a problem that so much of your content is duplicated at rec.arts.books.reviews, do you?

That did occur to me - and I stopped posting reviews to rec.arts.books.reviews over a year ago just in case - but until now Google has always ranked the reviews on my site way above any of the versions on Usenet-on-web sites.

So I think the ranking of rabr copies of my reviews above my own is a symptom rather than a cause.

My current best guess is that so many scraper sites have pulled stuff from me (either directly or as a result of my Open Directory entries) that Google has decided I'm a spam site myself :-(.

irock

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 2:45 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

chopin and everyone else,

12. Do spammy sites outrank you? (yes!)

For any of my keywords, I couldn't find any signs of spammy sites taking over. However, I just couldn't my listings in most of those keyword searches.

I tried these:
1. "mydomain.com" (w/ quotes)
2. mydomain
3. "link:www.mydomain.com" (w/o quotes)

Only 1. method resulted in my site ending up in 11th place. I don't know the implications.

Any ideas?

Dc71



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 4:30 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. yes ( impossible circle loop of affiliates of the head guy none of them run adsense I do however
2. Yes was CPC 7 percent clickthrough a day
3. Yes I did gave back to google with all of it running adsense however I was also had one other affiliate
4. Shared hosting in a total green block no blacklists
5. Yes? pulled out of the directory unfairly site has all white hat optimization * however I am the victum of google bowling. (definitely believe I was penalized)
6. Yes
7. Unaffected by allegra actually rankings increased
8. Targeted two keywords per page at most ever however google ranked whatever it saw fit which increased traffic I even expected
9. H1 title tags also identicle to title tag however
10. (10 months)
11. I pinged blogs thats it using a website that automates the process
12. I couldn't care less I don't complain its your engine however I think you shouldn't hand edit results if some has done their job incorrectly for your company * personal opinion *
13. (yes!)
14. I think their selfish , I gave back to them with adsense and they stabbed me in the back with one mans personal ethical decision to pull my website however msn and yahoo both feel I am a authority site.

Marval

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 5:20 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

After much research over the last 3 years on keyword density I would say you might just leave that out of your equation - Ive seen sites that use 40% density on thier pages outrank other sites that have a 10% density - and do extremely well in very competitive markets - as a matter of fact for quite some time I have been convinced that a density of upwards of 30% mixed with a huge amount of both inbound and outbound authority links will outplace anything in Google - Ive only researched this in my niche - which is quite competitive and the keywords and phrases I looked at were all in the greater than 1 mill results.
Hope this helps

Dc71



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 5:27 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

seems a little high you sure you just didn't slap a extra 0 on their? Or does ranking in the 30 million results bracket require everyone to fill out a certain from somewhere , as well you would think being a member of the 10,000 words a month club would ad a reason to not delist a publisher.

hutcheson

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 6:34 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

>one mans personal ethical decision to pull my website

Ah yes, Sergei spends his lunch hour picking my pages out of the index too, the ungrateful wretch. After I made him what he is, too!

ugnius

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 6:59 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. Are you in a competitive money area?
yes very.

2. Are you an adsense publisher?
yes, but dont think that is related anyhow.

3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?
yes

4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?
I'm on dedicated. but I dont think thats the factor.

5. Do you believe you were penalized?
yes.

6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa?
didnt have any problems with it. Added now just in case.

7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra, did Allegra take you out of the sandbox, then did it dump you back in the sandbox in the Bourbon update?
I was hit on march 23 by 75% and during bourbon the last 25%.

8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? How many words per page on average?
Dont care a lot. just writing content. not much.

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close?
Dont care a lot. but yes they are close to begining.

10. How old is your site?
1.5 year.

11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?
Directory listings, rss. And site got lots of links just because it was popular.

12. Do spammy sites outrank you?
yes. even my links in other pages outranks my site.

13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc?
yes.

14. Do you hate Google.
No I dont hate. but its that GOOGLE anymore.

Will Spencer

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 7:32 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. Are you in a competitive money area?

Many of the keywords which I went from top three to so-low-I-can't-find-me are extremely non-competitive.

In fact, for some of these keyword terms, I had/have no competition at all. The current search results return only unrelated sites.

2. Are you an adsense publisher?

Yes.

3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?

Yes -- I DID.

4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?

I share this IP with all my other sites. My 17 other sites were not affected. Only my most profitable site was affected by this update.

5. Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you?

Google traffic dropped over 90%. You be the judge. :)

6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa? (I did!) Are there any other htaccess codes to put in by the way?

All of my non-www's point to their respective WWW's.

Due to site redesigns, my .htaccess file is huge.

7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra, did Allegra take you out of the sandbox, then did it dump you back in the sandbox in the Bourbon update?

This site was not in the sandbox.

8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing? How many words per page on average? (about 6-10 keywords...about 180 words per page, keyword density is 10/180 = about 5% max most of the time...sometimes maybe 10% if I have a short writeup)

Whatever feels natural, plus a little bit from spending too much time thinking about SEO.

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close? (My headers are always [h1]keyword[/h1], and the keyword also starts at the beginning of my first sentence usually...so the header keyword, and regular keyword are adjacent. Other than that, keywords for me are naturally spaced apart for the most part...about 9-15+ words in between the keywords.)

Sounds like me.

10. How old is your site?

At this URL, a bit over a year.

11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?

My best links have been natural ones. I've also got lots of nice links from authority sites. Plus, I'd done a good amount of directory submissions.

12. Do spammy sites outrank you?

The sites which now outrank me are not spammy -- they are irrelevant. They are not relevant to the keyword terms entered.

13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc?

Yes. Who cares? :)

14. Do you hate Google.

More every day.

Natashka

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 10:20 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ok, more I read this thread, more I think it has something to do with our keywords and SEO. I don't think it has anything to do with Adsense, though 99% are publishers, but who are not these days?! Hosting also has nothing to do with it.

Whatever feels natural, plus a little bit from spending too much time thinking about SEO.

This sounds sooo true to me! That "little bit" is maybe that very "Straw That Broke The Camel's Back"!

Coz in my case I am outranked by sites who spend zero time thinking about SEO, don't read this forum and I bet they don't even know about existance of PR. The unrelevant sites are also from the same category: they DID NOT optimized their sites for our keywords.

Natashka

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 10:30 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think that's what I'm gonna do: I'll pull the old version of my homepage from 1999 from archive.org, with 0 SEO and animated monkeys jumping over the screen, and see how Google will like that!

Though I am risking that Yahoo may not like my old monkey page LOL

Dc71



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 11:24 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

The asthetics of a website should never play a factor in search rankings.

I could go on for hours about the ethics of search rankings and links.

Clint



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 11:41 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think that's what I'm gonna do: I'll pull the old version of my homepage from 1999 from archive.org, with 0 SEO and animated monkeys jumping over the screen, and see how Google will like that!
Though I am risking that Yahoo may not like my old monkey page LOL

You bring up an interesting point I've been pondering--and that is; making two completely different websites as far as meta tags go. One for the spastic Google, and the other one for all other SE's. What's the feasibility in doing that I wonder. For example, for the home page: mydomain.com/index.html and mydomain.com/g/index.html, and so on.

(Am I the only one that never gets email notifications on any threads here?)

Clint



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 11:46 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

The asthetics of a website should never play a factor in search rankings.

I couldn't agree more. Who the hell are they to penalize people that are not "geniuses in HTML, JS, cgi, Perl, etc.", nor, "webmaster geniuses" in general. I think most couldn't care less about the aesthetics of a site as long as it has the content you are looking for, and as long as it works.

ncgimaker

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 12:16 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. Are you in a competitive money area?

For some yes, but we were always second/third tier on those and primary tier on our main products. This is what I'd expect for our products, we were hit for all words all phrases.

2. Are you an adsense publisher?

We have adsense on some pages. All pages affected equally badly.

3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?

Some, about %20 of the online business was Adsense, about %2 of overall (offline/online) business. Define 'alot'.

4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?

Shared. No.

5. Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you?

We think its a side effect of a bad algo because we can see the same effect on all non SEO'd corporate sites.
If you search for our product names, nobody relevent shows up and we are below scrapers and off topic pages.
Its not plausible that someone would choose that result deliberately.

6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa?

No non www pages show up, we can't access .htaccess file on our server.

7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra,
n/a

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close?
Well yes, they're our product names, the rules of English say we have to call a "fluffy blue widget" a "fluffy blue widget" and not a "fluffy yellow dog truffle dingbat widget that has the blues".

10. How old is your site?
3 Years.

11. How did you obtain links when you first started out? How often do you get new quality links? Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?

Link exchanges, 10+ good ones a month, we stopped actively obtaining them because we got offered them.

12. Do spammy sites outrank you?
Yes

13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc? (yes!)
Yes

14. Do you hate Google.
No

MikeNoLastName

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29590 posted 4:58 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

1. Are you in a competitive money area?
Yes, popular destination, regional travel

2. Are you an adsense publisher?
Yes, as of Nov 2004

3. Did you make alot of money from Google traffic?
UPS club Since Jan 2005

4. Dedicated or Shared IP? Do you think switching to a dedicated IP from shared will improve rankings?
Dedicated per domain. Probably.

5. Do you believe you were penalized? If you put in keywords that only you should show up as, are other sites outranking you?
Yes. Show up better for NEAR match on title or keyword phrase, than for exact match.

6. Did you forget the 301 redirect, to redirect non-www to www vice versa?
Both www and non-www were showing up as PR6 previously, but only www was in index. Never seemed a problem before. Added non-to-www redirect last weeek after rankings dropped. Just before PR bar went away non-www was showing as PR1.

7. For those of you in the sandbox before Allegra, did Allegra take you out of the sandbox, then did it dump you back in the sandbox in the Bourbon update?
N/A

8. How many keywords per webpage do you use when optimizing?
single 2-3 word phrase
How many words per page on average? hundreds to thousands. KW density always below 10% usually much less.

9. Proximity of keywords? Are they too close? Headers are always [h1]keyword phrase[/h1] and my title includes phrase plus company name. Other than that, keywords for me are naturally spaced apart for the most part

10. How old is your site? part affected: redirected about 2 years ago on much older previously undeveloped domain, after Y! banned our main site for no reason, then later restored it. Rest of site: >10 yrs

11. How did you obtain links when you first started out?
Internal, interdomain and naturally from people linking. Have about 30 recip. links on one page added at the rate of about 1-2 month.

How often do you get new quality links?
one or two good ones a month. Lots of unrequested scrapers lately.

Did you stop obtaining links, thinking you would continue to get them naturally?
Never really tried actively.

12. Do spammy sites outrank you? (yes!)

13. Do you do well in Yahoo, MSN, etc? (yes!)

14. Do you hate Google. Getting there very quickly.

Looks like nearly everyone dumped had Adsense in common. Never had any problem ranking on G in almost 10 yrs, before we added Adsense. Our "site" is actually composed of about 3-4 domains interlinked. Only 1 was affected... the one most popular and the most heavily Adsensed. The others were all completely, untouched.

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