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Google Update Bourbon Part 2
May 2005
steveb




msg:742127
 6:19 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Continued from: [webmasterworld.com...]



"We know how the webmasters feel about this update."

No, that is zero sum game. The most useless posts here are from people saying the serps on some datacenter suck or are good because their own stuff ranks bad or good on that datacenter. Not only does nobody else care, there is someone thinking the exact opposite due to how their stuff is ranking.

In any case (repeating mantra from past several updates), a lot folks should consider that screw ups are not deliberate policies. Google has been a technical mess for more than a year now, just over two years really. Allegra was just a blip of an update, but was a huge technical disaster. Google also has a horrible time figuring out canonical pages, particularly when webmasters deliberately do inconsistent things.

This update seems to me to be another minor bit of shuffling, with the added "bonus" of a lot of anomalies, most caused by lazy or uniformed webmastering (meaning if you have been reading webmasterworld and haven't had a 301 on for non-www and www since at least last summer, you only have yourself to blame).

I see almost no changes in my niches, except... a HUGE increase in straight redirect domains. This tactical trash gets discovered fairly quickly but apparently a new tactic has been discovered and needs to be squashed; authority sites performing same as recently; sites still in the sandbox dumped back to pre-Allegra levels, while sites that got out of the sandbox with Allegra doing a bit better.

 

chopin2256




msg:742128
 6:27 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

To all of those who dropped huge rankings only:

We are definitely being filtered. For example, I used to rank #1 for my name in Google. (Now rank on page one just yahoo and msn). I am gone now. And guess what, the sites that link to me and have my name in the description of what my page is about, rank on page 7 on Google. Something even more interesting, I type in my name AND my domain name (even with the .com), thinking that I definitely should be number one out of 4 or 5 results. This is not the case. The two websites that linked to my page rank above me...and they are just the links page. I am definitely filtered, no doubt, and to the other webmasters who lost drastic rankings, you may also be filtered.

The point is, there is probably not much we can really do at this point because we can't beat a filter, and I am very sure we are filtered.

steveb




msg:742129
 6:36 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

What has happened before now is sites were "replaced" not filtered". What is the method of those links? Do they redirect?

Also search for a long string of text on your page. Do only you show up, or do other things rank?

===
cant't edit my post above, one other thing I'm noticing now is a lot more clicktracking on the Google results pages. Interesting to see that with several varied datacenters.

TravelMan




msg:742130
 6:41 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

FWIW, a little message of sympathy to all those out there who are suffering, its very tough and its mightly frustrating and worrying too.

Many have said about not relying on free serps, get a better business plan, make contingencies etc and all these things are true, but, it doesn't make things like this any easier, fact is, it hurts and its a big stress, especially for single site owners, many of whom have worked hard on one domain over a period of years, only to see all their efforts suddenly flushed down the toilet. Its doubly hard when you have a site like EFV's (I am sure there are many here with similar well built offerings but EFVs is a good illustration) a great example of a site that has worked hard at building good useful content, info rich and deserved of a recognition of an authority in its dominion, and yet its in knowwheresville...this shouldn't be so, at least not in a SE that once prided itself on giving users relevant useful sites.

Sure, life is sometimes about winners and losers, some will be crying in their beer whilst others will be cock a hoop at their new found income stream. I just wish that a little more care was exercised when the engineers turn the knobs and recognise that it isnt entirely necessarily to go as far as they feel they have to and that siege mentalities can, and as has been evidenced by many here, also cause many any innocent casualty.

We aren't all 'A grade spammers', some of us actually bought the idea that things can be achieved by playing within the rules. My guess is that for some, myself included, this belief is being severely tested.

Best of luck to you all, I hope you all find a way back soon :)

chopin2256




msg:742131
 6:42 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

What is the method of those links? Do they redirect?

None are redirecting. All static pages.

Also search for a long string of text on your page. Do only you show up, or do other things rank?

Ok I tried this, I put in:

My name
My domain.com
a few generic keyphrases (music, midi, piano)
I am still underneath these sites, out of about 5 results. The 2 websites are above me all the time, as long as we both have the same keyphrases.

blend27




msg:742132
 6:42 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

steveb ---Also search for a long string of text on your page--Do only you show up...-

Yes, Almost on all pages that have same Title and H1 as a widget name

helleborine




msg:742133
 7:01 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm with Chopin about the filter.

Specifically, my index page is heavily filtered. Internal pages fare marginally better. Sometimes an internal page shows up, with the index page as an indent. Naturally, since the index page is filtered, it appears to no longer pass the pagerank it used to the internal pages.

It's not completely gone, or banned. It's purposely suppressed. Why? I can only guess that it's just TOO MUCH of a crushing authority site in my sector.

Like Chopin.

suet




msg:742134
 7:06 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Chopin, Yes I agree your site has probably been penalised/dampened by this latest algo change.

The exact same thing happened to my 5 year old site after the Allegra update.

When searching for my domain, it too was found underneath scraper sites etc. Searching for original phrases from our site brought up loads of other sites which only had a partial match to this phrase.

I researched and read every topic on the Allegra update, and I was still none the wiser on why my site had bombed in the serps.

So, I decided to change nothing on my site, bar add more content, and wait it out.

With the Bourbon update our site has bounced back.

All you can do now is don't panic, be very, very patient and accept that Google can do what the heck it likes with its serps, whether its fair or not.

Your time will come again.

Kangol




msg:742135
 7:07 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Has anyone looked at the results number on their terms? When Bourbon Update started for the term I monitor there were about 2,000,000 results, now there are about 3,150,000. Is Google adding more pages as we go? Also I am seeing a diference of 3,350,000 on Google.com and 3,150,000 on danceing DCs.

helleborine




msg:742136
 7:14 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here are the inbound links reported by Google for the SERP I use to dominate:

#1 - 23
#2 - 66
#3 - 13
#4 - 29
#5 - 34
#6 - 323 (all but one are internal)
#7 - 12
#8 - 17
#9 - 0
#10 - 4

My site that's in the toilet: 71

TerrCan123




msg:742137
 7:17 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yes they keep adding pages and diluting the sites, also they keep adding domains every second. It is what they do, they find new pages and add them in.

Kangol




msg:742138
 7:19 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

TerrCan, this gives me hope.

lorenzinho2




msg:742139
 7:21 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

< it appears to no longer pass the pagerank it used to the internal pages.

Yes, exactly what we are seeing as well. Internal pages that are linked to directly from our PR7 home page are no longer ranking. A random internal page is outranking our home page for the home page's title.

< It's not completely gone, or banned. It's purposely suppressed.

Also yes, though I don't know about the "purposely" part. When you do a search for our domain name, the home page still ranks as #1, and it properly displays the site description (from DMOZ), meaning that it wouldn't appear to be dupe filtered out.

One other point - we are guilty of the "lazy webmastering" that steveb mentions - there are www and non-www versions of the site. The non-www version only has one inbound link, as opposed to tens of thousands for the www, so I didn't think it was a high priority fix (it seemed that Google has always been able to recognize the www version as the "real" site).

It would appear that the site's home page has either lost its PR, or has lost its ability to pass PR to internal pages.

MLHmptn




msg:742140
 7:25 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

So has the update officially happened yet or what? The SERPS look identical to what I was seeing last Friday. 64.233.167.104 seems to me to be the best results Google has had in quite awhile. When is google going to pull the plug and put the new results on .com? Hoping it's sooner than later!

Kangol




msg:742141
 7:27 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

"The SERPS look identical to what I was seeing last Friday." not quite, I still see changes on 64.233.163.104.

chopin2256




msg:742142
 7:41 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's not completely gone, or banned. It's purposely suppressed.

How many webmasters here got hit hard by the Google update?

Lets say about 50 percent of everyone who posts in here.

Alot of you guys are experts as well and have high quality sites. What would be the reason to "suppress" these sites? Nothing really logical comes to mind, unless you spam, or whatever...But I am assuming none of us do that. We all do white hat seo.

Is it possible that there is absolutely no logic for us getting wiped out? As I said before, and someone else said it again, Google may give everyone who does honest work a chance, since not everyone can rank well at the same time, due to the billions of webpages out there. What do you all think of this?

MikeNoLastName




msg:742143
 7:50 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

We've got the Chopin filter problem too. We have 3 primary domains, all of which have been highly interlinked for over 10 years now. ONLY ONE of them has been hit (I guess sort of the top of the three which is a PR6). The home page comes up #1 for title, but has dropped from 1st page to 10th page for everything else. Okay, let me clarify: It comes up #1 under the first part of the 9 word title, but putting in the FULL 9 word title and it is down to #18, replaced in #1 by pages from our other domains! Of course 329,000 other pages which reference us or contain part of our title also come up. Sub pages are doing a little better and some pages which have more to do with a totally unrelated subject than with the main theme have stayed almost constant. I agree with the apparent failure to pass PR and penalty mainly on the home page. The pages on this domain which have stayed the best are those with direct links from the outside rather than those heavily reliant on internal links. We're an adsense publisher too by the way.

[edited by: MikeNoLastName at 7:57 pm (utc) on May 23, 2005]

MLHmptn




msg:742144
 7:54 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)


"The SERPS look identical to what I was seeing last Friday." not quite, I still see changes on 64.233.163.104.

64.233.163.104 is not the active SERPS kangol. My question is has anybody seen "google.com" SERPS change yet?

Speedmaster




msg:742145
 7:56 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Can we have a poll to see how many people's results went up or down? This way we can really see if update is worthy. I suggest:

Way Up
Up a little
No change
Down a little
Way Down

steveb




msg:742146
 7:59 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

"None are redirecting. All static pages"

Not the pages. The links. Do they link to:
h*ttp://www.chopinlostsite.com/ or to something like
h*ttp://www.theirsite.com/cgi?blahjunk=http://www.chopinlostsite.com/

"Ok I tried this, I put in:"

No, put something that you should be the only result, for example (if searching for this page):
"I am still underneath these sites, out of about 5 results. The 2 websites"
... a long string of text in quotes.

"Lets say about 50 percent of everyone who posts in here."

My guess would be .5% tops, probably much lower.

Lipik




msg:742147
 8:05 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Way down for me.

Pico_Train




msg:742148
 8:13 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Way down for me too.

I posted about this earlier and it's still going.

Searched for my unique name.

First I came up as 9th on Google.com

5 minutes later, back to 1st.

Today, in at 8th now when earlier during the day, it was first.

Still loads going on. We can keep guessing or we can keep waiting.

As a HUGE Tori Spelling fan, all I can say is, Whatever?!

wiseapple




msg:742149
 8:14 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Down a bit more - We really felt the pain on Feb. 2nd. Feb. 2nd would be similar to dropping a bowling ball on your hand. Since there is not much more pain to be felt, this was like dropping a brick.

steveb




msg:742150
 8:16 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Can we have a poll"

Can we please not. Sheesh, for everybody who goes down, someone goes up.

ugnius




msg:742151
 8:17 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

way down

walkman




msg:742152
 8:24 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

look at the allegra thread; it's IDENTICAL to this. We hanged our hopes on moving data on DCs for weeks with no luck. I hope your outcome is different though...

chopin2256




msg:742153
 8:25 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Do they link to:
h*ttp://www.chopinlostsite.com/

Yes, its a direct link.

... a long string of text in quotes.

If I do this, I am the only result and I am found. The problem is, without quotes, if other sites have the same keyphrases as me, I am beneath them. If I had quotes, and someone else quoted from me exactly, I have a feeling they would still be on top of me.

wiseapple




msg:742154
 8:26 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

It is not simply the case of some go up - some go down... I can understand this.

It is the wild swings where someone goes from first page to page eighty across a wide number of keywords.

wiseapple




msg:742155
 8:27 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Welcome to Club Allegra.

ownerrim




msg:742156
 8:34 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Welcome to Club Allegra."

As with Club Viagra, there are ups and downs.

This 704 message thread spans 24 pages: 704 ( [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 24 > >
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