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This 612 message thread spans 21 pages: < < 612 ( 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 > >     
Google Update Bourbon - Part 1
Has the sandbox been busted?
Dayo_UK




msg:767441
 8:35 am on May 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

continued from: [webmasterworld.com...]


Seeing something happening on 64.233.163.104 and 64.233.167.104 - might be worth keeping an eye on.

 

idolw




msg:767801
 9:41 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

these two DCs give the same SERPs as google.com for my searches.
google.com was better for me yesterday, though

helleborine




msg:767802
 9:50 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm not waiting. I'm not going to be significantly better off on Wednesday than I am now. I'm steady in the sewer.

I'm already changing my website so that it looks like it's not even peripherally about my topic.

Plus, I'm removing quality content and replacing it with random musings from my diary.

I'm planning to write fellow websmasters and BEG them to please remove their links to me. Maybe I'm crushing the "competition" (I have none, really) like a sledge hammer to mosquitoes, and Google doesn't like big bullies.

I'm also going to reduce the amount of content. With Bourbon, less is more!

tahiti




msg:767803
 10:02 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

The recent updates show some positive results in my industry. Spammy sites with thousands keyowrd links on their homepage are now ALL gone, white hat SEO'd sites, including those new ones (which i am in) are rising up slowly.

Some observations of this minor updates

a) Brett's classic guidelines (26 steps to 15k) is still working fine: google seems reward those with good contents, ie. number of words, non-duplicated pages.

b) Links links links! outbound and inbound are both handy as long as they are related to your business.

c) Anchor text should be varies AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Site with too much exact same link text will be thrown back to the sandbox for the keyphase, trust me, i had first hand experience of it.

d) Link age! my sites pop out from no where for a bunch of target keywords. the inbound link that you got today might brings effect to your site only after six-eight months in those competative area- even G shows them in your site's backlink, they dont count it for your SERP.

well, just my 2 cents. Do let me know if you guys see other factors that G taking for their SE rankings.

Jon_King




msg:767804
 10:29 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

In our sector during the last two updates large site offerings took over initially, like Amazon and About, then they started to move down after a few days. I'm experiencing the same thing with practically the same large sites in the same spots as previous partial updates.

I would seriously think twice before making site modifications yet.

tigger




msg:767805
 10:43 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I agree now is not the time to be making changes wait at least until next weekend it should have settled by then

helleborine




msg:767806
 10:44 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

But Jon... I'm the "Amazon" "large-offering" site of my tiny sector!

I'm going to try to masquerade as a small site.

I repeat... from #1 to #145 since the update started. Holding steady at #145. No way I'll recover from this in the next few days. It's hopeless.

guitaristinus




msg:767807
 10:47 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

My scraper site got ditched. Good job Google. Don't mind because 1) The internet is awesome and I'm glad to see it get better and 2) I would have spent income from the site on stuff I don't need that would have added to the Earth's pollution.

Pico_Train




msg:767808
 10:51 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

There is dancing a going on!

5 minutes ago I did a search for my unique Domain name without the .com or .whatever extension. I was 9th. I did it again now and I am back at number 1. This was on google.com

1. Don't do anything to your site unless you know you are a cheater...
2. Check in here and there to see what is happening.
3. go watch TV or go for a walk or get get hammered. Just to pass time.
4. See what happens in the coming days.
5. If nothing, write Google and hope Googleguy pops in to listen to our problems/complaints/irritations.

helleborine




msg:767809
 10:58 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Woo-hoo you're right! From #145 to #138, someone get the champagne!

kwngian




msg:767810
 10:58 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

But Jon... I'm the "Amazon" "large-offering" site of my tiny sector!

hehe.. funny.

Plus, I'm removing quality content and replacing it with random musings from my diary.

Please let me know the URL of your diary. I would enjoy reading your style of writing.

Anyway, patience is the key. My traffic seems to be going up since yesterday, so it is not final yet.

helleborine




msg:767811
 11:27 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I would enjoy reading your style of writing.

Especially if you were a kid in my high school, because I quit the diary business when I turned 16. Maybe you'll find out had a secret crush on you.

My site had room for SEO improvement, but as it was #1, my motto was "if it ain't broke, blah blah blah."

But now I see trouble on the horizon. I will not recover fully in the following days. No way. And frankly, I'm not after position #25. I'm after #1.

That's where I rightfully should be, If Google could get his act together. In fact, to be absolutely fair, there should be no other site ranking on the entire page 1 of my search term.

Just my site, in a large font, with flashing letters.

Dayo_UK




msg:767812
 11:32 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

After seeing helleborine site - she is probably right in that her site is the Amazon of her niche (a very nice site it is too.)

But what is depressing is that over the last few updates quality sites have seriously suffered.

Helleborine If I was you I would ask your host how you can redirect your www pages to your non-www pages. As you run this risk of both your www and non-www sites being indexed (I know we spoke about this and I see you asked in the apache forum - and arent able to use engine rewrites.)

Also I would change your linking from relative to exact (you probably want the non-www indexed) so instead of your links going to page.html they need to go to h ttp://example.host.com/page.html.

However - this will probably not be a quick fix but might be worth considering.

helleborine




msg:767813
 11:46 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

After seeing helleborine site - she is probably right in that her site is the Amazon of her niche (a very nice site it is too.)

Thank you, Sir!

My host is useless. I did ask them the question. As usual, a snotty teenager holding a cell phone will reply with a one line non-answer. I will want to slap him around for it.

I'm off to change my links to exact links. I've also rewritten my front page.

I do hope that Google won't apply a "windbag penalty" for long, boring, repetitive epic novels on front pages.

'Cause I'm gonna suffer... from the sewers to the very deepest pits of hell... where I'll no doubt find myself in excellent company.

WebFusion




msg:767814
 12:20 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've pulled AdSense off the site and I'll pull the Amazon links at the end of this quarter. I can't imagine either of those is a problem but it's all I can think of to try.

I wouldn't change a thing until you've waited 4-6 weeks (at least) for things to settle down.

Some observations of this minor updates

a) Brett's classic guidelines (26 steps to 15k) is still working fine: google seems reward those with good contents, ie. number of words, non-duplicated pages.

Agreed. That particular formula has never failed me (once released from the sandbox, that is.)

Anchor text should be varies AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Site with too much exact same link text will be thrown back to the sandbox for the keyphase, trust me, i had first hand experience of it.

Agreed again. However, we've gone further with our linking strategy. We now no longer go for links to our home page. Every time we add another page of theme-focused conent, we get 2-3 links to that page, and move on to the next. It has helped our overall PR climb, as well as given us an extra 6k visitors per day that hit those internal pages first.

Link age! my sites pop out from no where for a bunch of target keywords. the inbound link that you got today might brings effect to your site only after six-eight months in those competative area- even G shows them in your site's backlink, they dont count it for your SERP.

Agreed again. Linking campaigns are much more long-term propositions.

No way I'll recover from this in the next few days. It's hopeless.

Yep, you're right. Throw in the towel, dust off your resume and hit the bricks.

Cmon....provided your site is a quality one, your drop in ranking couold (and probably will) improve. Why panic after only a week?

helleborine




msg:767815
 12:25 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Webfusion, I want the #1 position that's rightfully mine.

That's the only "recovery" that's good enough for me.

It's not going to happen by itself. I have to put some work, thought and effort into it. I'm getting some advice, I'm following it.

I'm not going to dust off my resumé - this is too much fun. I l-o-v-e a challenge. I have one now.

<sarcasm>Thank you Google.</sarcasm>

danny




msg:767816
 12:44 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I wrote:
I've pulled AdSense off the site and I'll pull the Amazon links at the end of this quarter. I can't imagine either of those is a problem but it's all I can think of to try.

WebFusion wrote:
I wouldn't change a thing until you've waited 4-6 weeks (at least) for things to settle down.

Things have been pretty bad since February 3rd, so I'm not reacting just to this weekend's turn for the (even) worse.

Pulling AdSense and Amazon for three months may cost me a chunk of money, but having readers matters more to me. If nothing is better in 100 days I'll give up any hope of getting Google traffic back and put AdSense and Amazon back for the people coming from Yahoo and MSN and static links.

fjpapaleo




msg:767817
 1:27 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

"If I was you I would ask your host how you can redirect your www pages to your non-www pages. As you run this risk of both your www and non-www sites being indexed"

I always find this curious. Is it really possible that Google does not recognize www.site.com and [site.com...] as the same site? I show the same page count on either or. Is this the way it should be or am I risking a dupe content penalty? Anybody?

helleborine




msg:767818
 1:28 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

A dupe content penalty over www and non-www sites?

Say, what percentage of the internet might that lop off in one fell swoop?

patchacoutek




msg:767819
 1:35 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I personnaly think that is does not makes sense to remove ad sense. Do you really think google gives a penalty to sites who use ad sense?

That would be a kinda weird turn of events for the company!

---

Could someone here take the time to explain to all of us the details in the step-by-step update process? Someone mentionned about different filters, settings and sites that are included in the index at different moments. Is this true? Should we still expect big changes in this upgrade or its basically finished?

Alex

Visit Thailand




msg:767820
 1:37 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

After March 23/24 I did not make any change to my www and non www pages.

I have to respect G more than that, as it is an issue that they should fix if at all it is an issue. It would potentially affect ever site on the web,

Is difficult to see what changes are appearing this update for my sites but looks like things maybe changing back to where they were. But have not had enough time to analyse.

I still keep doing what I always have done and always will, add quality content, create new partnerships, etc etc.

Dayo_UK




msg:767821
 1:41 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Re non-www and www.

AFAIK - Google has a way of trying to tell if the non-www and www are the same page (they dont have to be) and if it detects them as being the same page they will have the same page rank and same backlinks etc

However, this seems to be an imperfect system. If you have different page rank, backlinks on your non-www to the www then Google sees it as two different pages. (This has been the case since about Florida time I think)

fjpapaleo




msg:767822
 1:49 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

helleborine,

You need to do what I did months ago. Forget about Google! Concentrate on other ways to drive people to your site. Spend your time on a ppc click campaign that will be bring you steady traffic and be more reliable. I know it's tough watching all the junk getting so much free traffic but trust me, you'll sleep better at night. Truth be told, I don't think you have the temperment for Google watching. :)

helleborine




msg:767823
 1:54 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Shouldn't such a duplicate penalty mean that only the site (www or non-www) with the highest PR will show up in the SERPs?

Do you think Bourbon has put a nuclear warhead on the dupe filter? I'm mutating rapidly.

fjpapaleo, you got me wrong... I got the fire in my belly! If it takes a 2x4 to convince Google my site is worthy of the top spot, I'm going to swing it harder than anyone else.

[edited by: helleborine at 1:56 pm (utc) on May 22, 2005]

Pico_Train




msg:767824
 1:54 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

There's a bit of talk about removing amazon and adsense, why would those affect your results?

Dayo_UK




msg:767825
 2:08 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

helleborine

Yes, you would think the one with the highest PR would outrank (or the oldest page) - but it appears Google can get confused.

There are lots of threads about Canonical URL and duplicate content on non-www and www in webmasterworld. This is one of the more interesting ones:-

[webmasterworld.com...]

Googleguys posts in that thread are interesting regarding Canonical urls.

And this thread:-

[webmasterworld.com...]

Back to the update though as we dont want to get to side tracked.

Boaz




msg:767826
 2:11 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Helleborine - "my host is useless" - how about switching hosts then? Today you'd like this thing done (which they can't do), tomorrow it will be another thing, and eventually you'll switch - so why not do it now?

danny




msg:767827
 2:13 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

There's a bit of talk about removing amazon and adsense, why would those affect your results?

Links to Amazon are links, which Google presumably takes into account in its algorithm...

And while I wouldn't have thought AdSense could affect Google's search results, Google did go and index my AdSense alternate ads...

Anyway, I've pulled AdSense and will pull Amazon after this quarter - it's hard to give up on those tiers! - and I'll see what happens in two or three months. There's not much else I can try. I have enough incoming links it's hard to believe any kind of link campaign would make much difference. And I'm pretty sure that my problem is not the result of a duplicate content penalty (I canonicalised on non-www when I moved to the current domain five years ago) or a 302 hijacking.

It's an unlikely try, I agree, but I'll give it a shot and if it doesn't work I'll put AdSense and Amazon back and give up on Google - I'm not as sanguine as Helleborine about my likely success with a 2x4 :-).

reseller




msg:767828
 2:22 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Dayo_UK

I have noticed that you are good at watching and analysing the DCs and therefor I wish you to test the followings for me.

Would you be kind to test any of the keyphrases you use to test on the DCs and see whether the top 5 sites on the two following DCs differ from the rest of DCs (the majority of which show the same results in my case) and whether your google.com has the same top 5 sites results as the two DCs in questions when running the same query.

[64.233.183.104...]

[64.233.183.99...]

If it is the case, what do you make out of it?

Thanks a bunch :-)

abbeyvet




msg:767829
 2:24 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Several of my client's site have done well enough here, a few have dropped, but the weirdest thing is that in EVERY case where I have a mention of a client site on my own main site (in the portfolio section) that single page is now at least 2 or 3 places above the client site. Which is not really the idea and is unlikely to thrill them and really these are definitely not particularly useful results for searchers.

None of those portfolio pages has even a single incoming link other than from within my own site.

[edited by: abbeyvet at 2:26 pm (utc) on May 22, 2005]

Boaz




msg:767830
 2:25 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Danny - "I have enough incoming links it's hard to believe any kind of link campaign would make much difference" - you're probably right. Nevertheless, have you considered the possibility that what you've been experiencing since February could be some sort of implementation of Trustrank?

Dayo_UK




msg:767831
 2:28 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Reseller - I am not really seeing anything special about those two dcs.

My Google.com is currently 216.239.39.99

While Google.co.uk is currently 216.239.57.104

This 612 message thread spans 21 pages: < < 612 ( 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 > >
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