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Google Windows Web Accelerator
Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 8:09 pm on May 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

[webaccelerator.google.com...]


System Requirements
Operating System: Win XP or Win 2000 SP3+
Browser: IE 5.5+ or Firefox 1.0+
Availability: For users in North America and Europe (during beta testing phase)

Press Release:

Google Web
Accelerator significantly reduces the time that it takes broadband users to
download and view web pages. The Google Web Accelerator appears as a small
speedometer in the browser chrome with a cumulative "Time saved" indicator.

Here's how it works. A user downloads and installs the client and begins
browsing the web as she normally would. In the background, the Google Web
Accelerator employs a number of techniques to speed up the delivery of
content to users.

Looks like some of the Mozilla hires are paying dvidends.

 

The Contractor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 3:26 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

what issues are people seeing with cookies

Yes, they are not set on the users machine. I would venture to say that PowDork's problems stem from the images on every page being re-cached instead of them being cached/stored like they normally are in a browsers cache.

I stopped playing with the program as I can't use it with a clear conscience ;)

I have done some digging in the windows registry and have seen where it assigns a unique ID along with my Company name and my own name – I never entered that info, so it grabbed it from elsewhere.

What is the ultimate goal of webaccelerator? Ok, so I know you couldn't answer that even if you knew, but I had to ask.

I think you'd actually do better by releasing your own browser to gather users info/habits and leave this prefetch crap alone. I'm sure that's coming, just don't know when..
That way you get the info you want without screwing up peoples sites ;)

I give you credit/thanks for lots of useful tools, products, and services released to endusers, but this is one that I hope never gains a wide audience…hehe

Powdork

WebmasterWorld Senior Member powdork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 3:29 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Okay, an update on the slowness. When I am on my site it seems as though google has prefetched the buttons and they appear quickly. The slowness occurs when i do the site:search and go to my gallery pages from google's results page.
So it would seem that on my connection the prefetching speeds things up, but the accelerator is slowing down my browser when things are not prefetched.
GG, how can i get you an example since you seem to have Slippery Mail enabled.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 3:30 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy said:
I'd ask people to give it a little time before jumping to a conclusion that the accelerator is bad for your sites

Google WA has ZERO upside for my site.

It interferes with my page impression tracking which is a HUGE issue. We track total page impressions to compute how much advertising inventory we can sell ($$,$$$) per month and if you're caching the pages those numbers are skewed. We also track the total accesses per each page as we sell sponsored links and charge customers a flat fee based on the total impressions per page sponsored so those numbers may be overinflated with pre-fetch based on their actual impressions. Not to mention ALL pages are dynamic so none of them should ever be cached as the content changes in real-time.

Example: My traffic is 1.5M page views/month, pre-fetch could boost it to 3M (or more) with just 1 pre-fetch per current page view.

So explain how Google WA caching and pre-fetch helps me in any way whatsoever other than directly interfering with my business and livelihood?

If you honor no-cache requests at least the worst thing Google WA will do is slow down access to the site which it appears to do already.

You need to let us easily OPT-OUT the entire site, it should be domain-wide opt-out, not no-cache per page or any other silly little busy make work nonsense that results in thousands of page edits.

[edited by: incrediBILL at 3:38 pm (utc) on May 6, 2005]

DoppyNL

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 3:31 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

When the first page a user requests is returned, a cookie is set for the session; but since it is unknown at that point if the user will accept that cookie, the session will also be passed as a parameter in the url.
(sessionparameter is only set in the url when no sessioncookie is found during the `build` of the page.)
So users that don't accept the cookie will see the sessionid in all urls. users that do accept that will only see the sessionid on ALL links on the first page.

url will allways look something like this:

mydomain.tld/pagename/parameter.value/

with some minor variatons. But there will never be a? in the url, nor an extention or filename.
When only looking at the url, an automated system will probably label it as `static`, allthough some humans may recognise there is some dynamic stuff happening on the server.

bloke in a box

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 3:32 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Googleguy - my comment was meant as an 'off the cuff' remark rather than a dig. Apologies for my British sense of humour. :)

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 3:39 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sometimes right after I wake up, I'm still too sleep to get humor, bloke in a box. :) This gives me enough to starting hunting for more info--thank you. I'll let you know what I find out.

DoppyNL

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 3:42 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

To give a more clear image on my situation, it is very similar to IncridiBills situation.

* All pages dynamic.
* Statistics are incorrect because:
- some pages are requested more often because of prefetching, but no actual requesting
- some pages are requested less often because of caching.
result: stats are quite useless.
* `clickpaths` of users are no longer accurate. (stats)
* users loosing their sessions.

So, same for me as IncrediBill here. No upside's, only bad things for my site.

Good idea is an OPT-OUT that will prevent this from happening, using a header for all pages will cause a (dramatic?) increase in serverload.
So a manual opt-out for an entire domain can be usefull.
An automatic `opt-out` for site's that issue A LOT of no-cache headers may also be a good idea. (a site may also be sending `no cache` for every request!)

dmorison

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 4:09 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

An automatic `opt-out` for site's that issue A LOT of no-cache headers may also be a good idea. (a site may also be sending `no cache` for every request!)

I'd go further and say that WA should treat any link from a page served with a no-cache header as possibily being dynamic and therefore not to prefetch. I'd be happy with that :). In fact I really quite like the effect it has on my "outside" (public) site. I have a "screenshots" page that contains thumbnails that you click to view a full screen version - the pre-fetch on mouse over really makes the whole thing look very slick.

Your web application pages should be sending no-cache anyway so there's no additional load on your app.

ThomasB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 4:24 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just saw the Toolbar v3 on [webaccelerator.google.com...] . Wonder if they're taking it offline due to too much bad press.

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 4:46 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy ....Good afternoon

After reading WA privacy statement (bellow), I wish to ask you:

Does WA honor the contents of publishers who exclude Googglebot (through robots.txt) and don´t wish neither to be indexed in Google nor to share their sites or their visitors information with Google?

Thanks.

<5. How does using Google Web Accelerator affect my privacy?

Google Web Accelerator receives much of the same kind of information you currently send to your ISP when you surf the Web:

* Google will receive your requests for unencrypted pages (those with "HTTP:", not "HTTPS:", at the beginning of the URL), along with information such as the date and time of the request, your IP address, and computer and connection information
* If you enter personally identifiable information (such as an email address) onto a form on an unencrypted web page, some sites may send this information through Google. Whenever your computer sends cookies with browsing or prefetching page requests for unencrypted sites, we temporarily cache these cookies in order to improve performance
* In order to speed up the display of pages generally, Google Web Accelerator may store copies of web pages, including prefetched pages that you did not visit, in the Google Web Accelerator cache on your machine. This is separate from your browser's cache, which only identifies pages that you actually visited. You can empty your Google Web Accelerator cache at any time by following these instructions.

The policies for the Google Web Accelerator, like those for Google.com, uphold the highest level of integrity and respect for our users' information.>

philaweb

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 4:51 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

~GoogleGuy

I have decided not to block the Accellerator.

A person that decides to install the AW, also decides to share browser informations to some extent with Google. This eventually means that Google decides what the end user sees on his monitor - be it a live version of the page or a cached version from either the AW buffer cache or the Google prefetch server cache.

It is entirely a Google decision whether to override 403 error messages and serve a cached version in its place. The cached version could in theory be taken from another users AW buffer cache, since AW theoretically has two ports open for operation.

In my point of view, the Google Accellerator is not about saving time, that is just the sales gimmick, the Google Accellerator is about creating a Googlenet prior to Microsoft creating their own net.

Now, if you could suggest to your engineers a way of either opting in or out of this Googlenet, it would be much appreciated.

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 4:53 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

DoppyNL and philaweb, I'll pass this on, and I appreciate the feedback.

davidgautier

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 5:01 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

This put Florida update's "google bad image" to shame. It does not only disrespect webmasters but it has zero respect to google's users, the real bread and butter of google.
I only have one thing I feel towards google right now - how did they manage fool us for so long?

Neo541

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 5:32 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Reseller:
GoogleGuy ....Good afternoon

After reading WA privacy statement (bellow), I wish to ask you:

Does WA honor the contents of publishers who exclude Googglebot (through robots.txt) and don´t wish neither to be indexed in Google nor to share their sites or their visitors information with Google?

GoogleGuy:
DoppyNL and philaweb, I'll pass this on, and I appreciate the feedback.

I find it interesting that GG skipped right over this VERY important question from Reseller. I would also love to know the answer to this?

ideavirus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 5:53 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

The download Now tab is now a broken link. I cannot download it now.

Did Google take it offline? for whatever reasons?

Thanks

walkman



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 5:54 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

technically your visitors agreed to have Google track them by downloading and installing the accelerator, and this supesedes what you decide to do on your site. Why would Google release the program only to have webmasters block them? Wait till they start giving away the Urchin analyzer

"or their visitors information with Google? "

mrMister

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 5:57 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'll ask your other questions as well, but I'd ask people to give it a little time before jumping to a conclusion that the accelerator is bad for your sites--it's been less than two days since the Labs demo was put up.

GoogleGuy. You really expect me to hang around and watch the damage being caused? I analysed what the app was doing and did some thorough testing.

Once discovering how badly written it is, I had to jump on the phone to my clients and tell them not to download it because it will delete pages on their web site if they use DA with the Content Management System they have.

You really expect me to sit around for a week or so and let that happen? How do you think they would react to that? It certainly won't improve business that's for sure.

Or would you prefer me to wait for it to happen and inform them that I had taken the advice of a Google employee and they should seek damages from them?

You also expect me to happily sit by knowing that one of my eCommerce sites doesn't work properly with the DA!

Can I please suggest that the next time Google opens pandora's box and releases its contents on the Internet, that they do a bit of open consultation beforehand?

By the way, I've been scouring through the HTTP docs all day and I still can't find anything that would give the impression that it's okay to ignore robots.txt unless there's a question mark in the URI. Any chance you could get the guy that passed you this information to be a bit more specific?

LeoXIV

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:22 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

FOUND: Artifacts from the furture
_______________________________________________________

AdBehaveWordstm News
April 2006

In this issue:

New Features: Expand your market reach with behavior targeting.

What is this: Now thanks to our really-smart data mining algorithms you can display your ads to users who might subconsciously be interested in your products.

Consider the following example:

Our research has shown that with %73 CF (confidence factor) users browsing automobile related sites are actually looking to buy a toothpaste; so by selecting this option your toothpaste ad will be displayed to automobile website surfers. And the good news is that you not only do not have to think about these ARs (association rules; our algo does everything) but also your CPC will be discounted by the automatically determined CF.

Of course as usual we only let ARs with min.Support of %90 to engage automatically. If for branding purposes you are interested in min.Support of less than %90, your account manager would be more than happy to assist you with that.

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:33 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Regarding robots.txt, if someone installs a proxy cache or web accelerator (be it Propel, NetZero, squid, or whatever), I wouldn't necessarily expect that proxy cache to be restrained by robots.txt. The cache is acting for the user, not as Googlebot or other spider.

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:37 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

davidgautier, welcome to WebmasterWorld. Proxy caches have the potential to speed up users' connection and reduce the bandwidth for a webmaster; that's why lots of ISPs use them.

dmorison

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:40 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

AdBehaveWords

You might jest; but i'd love to be able to buy AdWords on $keyword where the user is known to be interested in $industry (perhaps as well defined as by having visited $site in the past).

At the moment, there is a particular keyword that I would like to target, but I can't, because it is mainly used in searches relating to a completely different industry, and so I can't get CTR on it at all.

davidgautier

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:46 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Googleguy wrote : " davidgautier, welcome to WebmasterWorld. Proxy caches have the potential to speed up users' connection and reduce the bandwidth for a webmaster; that's why lots of ISPs use them. "

The question is at what cost? overloading the web, breaking sites, total disrespect to user's privacy?
It's like if I build a tool tomorrow to earn webmasters few more pennies but at the end, steal their wires.

Angonasec

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:48 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Chndru: Please read some of the thread b4 posting.

Reseller: "Who knows who will be the next Jim to lead us all as publishers in our fight for privacy and control of our own contents."

Yep, you got it, that was my reason for thanking Bill, Brett and Claus for giving us publishers the code to block this dreadful invention so quickly.

GG says it's only been wild for two days, and I've had it blocked for both of them thanks to WebmasterWorld.

Hey IncrediBill: Where's your redirect code and G WA tutorial?

Give us the tools and we'll finish the job.

I reckon it's a very good time to sell G stock.

py9jmas

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:49 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Once discovering how badly written it is, I had to jump on the phone to my clients and tell them not to download it because it will delete pages on their web site if they use DA with the Content Management System they have.

I've been scouring through the HTTP docs all day and I still can't find anything that would give the impression that it's okay to ignore robots.txt unless there's a question mark in the URI.

If you've been scouring through the HTTP docs, you would know that:
In particular, the convention has been established that the GET and
HEAD methods SHOULD NOT have the significance of taking an action
other than retrieval.

If issuing a GET causes something to be deleted then your website is broken, not the user-agent.

PS, robots.txt is for robots, not proxies.

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:50 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

davidgautier, I'm sorry that I don't understand why this steals wires. Which wires? This accelerator shouldn't overload the web at all. I'm hoping it makes things much better. There's a lot of overhead in HTTP connections that things like compression can reduce.

graywolf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:51 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Resistance is futile, publishers your content belongs to us, users your browsing history belongs to us, you have no privacy, we have all of your data, we are the BORG... ;-)

Neo541

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:55 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

The simple fact is, if this had been unveiled by M$, this place would come unglued. GG your company is already getting much more benefit of the doubt than this product deserves, just because they "do no evil."

I suspect that there will be MANY people who disagree with your company line if this catches on.

davidgautier

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:55 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)


Let's take a real life scenario to demonstrate what's going on here. Some lawyer, let's call him JoeMS, decides to take on google head to head. He writes some files on his computer and sometimes, using google desktop search, searching for them. Of course, searches through google desktop search are track-able by google.
Then, he goes to some secure sites to learn about his arguments, discuss in private forums with fellow lawyers about his case, all of course is now archived on google computers because of google WA.
Then, he goes to another private area and discusses his co-workers about the case, listing both his strong and weak arguments, all in a private manner. Did I say private? It is all on google's archives.
When his day at court comes, google, without preparing, run a search on their internal network for JoeMS data, picking it up. On the way to court, while stopping at burger king, they see anything and everything there is about joeMS, and his weaknesses, by his own words.
Guess who wins?

[edited by: davidgautier at 7:02 pm (utc) on May 6, 2005]

ChrisCBA

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:55 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wonder if Google has any intentions of linking the WA to those ad anchor links that automatically generate based on the copy/keywords on the page. (Think Adsense Ad Links meets Autolink)

User comes into the page with the WA… the WA automatically adds Google Ad Links to the page on selected keywords that it thinks the user is interested in.

If they could tie it into the Adsense account of the page and share the profit… it wouldn’t be such a bad idea… but if they started monetizing my page content without giving me any return… then bad things, very bad things.

Longhaired Genius

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 6:59 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Maybe wires should be wives (touch typing - right finger, wrong row).

davidgautier

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 29319 posted 7:05 pm on May 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

" davidgautier, I'm sorry that I don't understand why this steals wires. Which wires? "

It's a metaphor.

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