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Can You Optimize for Multiple Keywords?
Question about rankings.
Boopotts

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 4:33 am on Apr 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi all,

Well, first let me congratulate everyone who participates here on building what has to be the finest webmaster community on the Internet. 'Je ne rien' when it comes to being a webmaster, but thanks to the discussions here my learning curve has improved immensely-- and I really want to thank everyone for that.

My question centers around optimizing for keywords. Simply put, is it possible to optimize efficiently for keywords that aren't directly related, but aren't completely unrelated either? For example (and this has nothing to do with my site), could a body attain decent rankings for the terms 'gardening' and 'cooking' on the same site?

The problem stems from the fact that I don't know if it's the keyword density for a particular page that's paramount, or that keyword's density throughout the entire site. In my earlier example you might have half the site devoted to gardening, and half to cooking, and while each section may by optimized to the gills your site's keyword density would be only half of what you'd find in a site dedicated to only one of those activities.

Thanks for reading,

Guy

 

Sweeets

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 4:29 pm on Apr 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi

Of course you can optimise for multiple keywords...

I would say though it is always beneficial if all keywords (pages) are of the same subject, i.e. a site on gardening. But, as long as your site has structured links internally (with correct anchor text), and lots of well written, balanced copy (don't worry too much about density), keywords in the right areas on the right pages (tags), and your site is linked to from authoritative sites - then you'll do good!

Remember it's just about organising ytour site so it is thematic and then knowing where to place the keywords.

Comprendez?! Mucho goodio!

MHes

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 5:02 pm on Apr 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

The thing to remember is that google works on a page basis. Therefore the links in to that page will be effective if they are on theme. A site all about gardening will have pages with internal links pointing to each other and by default reinforce the theme of gardening. If you add to this gardening site a page about cars, with the links in from other gardening pages, I doubt the page about cars will do very well.

You can have multiple subjects on a site and google will index each page accordingly. But to rank well, you need on theme links in (internal or external).

Wizard

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 6:41 pm on Apr 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

There shouldn't be any limit on domain - imagine university site, in one .edu domain, with hundreds of websites in subdirectories, about various subjects. Think about DMOZ, which is an authority site about almost everything.

As for density, the single page may theoretically rank well in up to 10 - 20 different keywords, as density above 10% for each keyword may cause over-optimisation penalty, though exact value is difficult to say, and density below 5% can't be considered high.

But of course, recommended number of keywords per page is about 3-5. Try to stuff more of them in title tag, without affecting its language style, and without exceeding 65 characters of length.

The other hand, page sometimes need no density to rank well, I have seen pages ranking in top 10 just because of one outbound link to page with great content and keyword phrase in anchor text. In not ultra-competitive keyword, though.

Boopotts

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 2:28 am on Apr 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks everyone for your replies. This is exactly what I wanted to hear, as I can now go forward in the direction I orignally intended; something that I've learned rarely happens in this business when you're starting out.

Question for wizard: Is it a good idea to have outbound links to sites that don't reciprocate? Or does it even matter? The party line, of course, is that having a bunch of non reciprocating outbound links screws up your PR, which in turn screws up your chances of ever acheiving decent SE results. But I've always wondered if that isn't the whole story.

grandpa

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 3:24 am on Apr 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi Boopotts.

The party line, of course, is that having a bunch of non reciprocating outbound links screws up your PR, which in turn screws up your chances of ever acheiving decent SE results.

The party line? What party is this, I wonder. Generally speaking, having a bunch of outbound links will not affect the PR of any page (remember PR is assigned to pages, not sites). But what is your definition of 'a bunch'? A couple of hundred outbound links on any one page is probably too many and you might want to split them across more than one page. General recommendations are 100 links/page.

Speaking directly to your question of non-reciprocating links - here's my story. About 18 months ago I took my one page of recip links and turned it into a mini-directory. I created some categories that did not have any links, so to help those pages I searched out some authority sites for that category and placed them on the page. I didn't even ask for a recip, just placed outbound links so my visitors would have something to look at besides a blank page. Guess what? One of those pages has turned up in the top 10 for 10's of millions of returned pages for a particular search phrase. There is not a single recip on that page. I would call that decent serps. That page is not the only one that has had good results, just the best of the bunch.

Build your site, and your pages, for your visitors! The serps will follow.

In a sense this answers your original question too. The page in my directory that I referenced is 100% not on topic for my regular widgets. It's a category in a directory. Totally irrelevant to anything I normally do. But it IS optimized for the keyword(s) for the directory category.

Welcome to WebmasterWorld!

Boopotts

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 4:23 am on Apr 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, I guess you caught me... The 'party line', I guess, is what I heard from other webmasters. But I never really believed it, since if this screwed up your SERP's nobody would have non-reciprocating links, which would mean there would be no 'natural' links anywhere. The result of that would be that any formula which used link popularity for SE results would be worthless, as the folks with the hugest links pages would just win out.

Reid

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 5:07 am on Apr 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Homepage - The gardening cook

level 1 pages
growing things in your garden to cook
cooking things from your garden
barbecue - the real garden cook

level 2 pages
vegetable gardening
gardening herbs and spices
cooking vegetables from your garden
how to barbecue things you grew in your garden

level 3
how to grow carrots
how to cook carrots
ect
ect

MHes

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 7:50 am on Apr 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

>The page in my directory that I referenced is 100% not on topic for my regular widgets.

I agree that this does sometimes happen. But for long term stability you need relevent links. Do you have a homepage link for that topic and is, in fact, your home page reinforcing that theme?

grandpa

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 28972 posted 8:10 pm on Apr 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

I agree completely that I need relevant links for those pages, and I am just beginning to search them out. To date the focus has been on the bread-and-butter pages of the main site.

There is a link on the home page that points to the directory, and in the site map as well. But those links only point to the first page of the directory. Pages within the directory are obviously interlinked where appropriate.

The home page of the site does not reinforce any themes or categories in the directory.

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